Double Billing

I just got an email that stated that my issue with being billed twice for land use fees was 'resolved'. Well, I, for one, do not agree with what LL doing. It was a known issue today - you can read about it here ->http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/29/land-billing-charged-twice/<-.

To summarize what happened: First, they billed my account twice - their mistake. They then credit my account (SL ) the amount of the second charge to resolve the issue. Well, that money is now taken from my bank account - collecting interest - and sitting over at LL as credit on my account - not collecting interest. First of all, the money was not theirs to take. Secondly, to get my money back (process credit) that they erroneously took, I have to pay them. What is wrong with this picture ? Shall I spend $ to call across the country to get it straightened out ? My guess is they are banking on the fact that people like me will not find this an economically sound decision to make. This mistake creates a nice little bit of free money - for an error in billing, imho... even if they only have 20,000 users using paypal ... they would make a tidy 20 grand from this 'error'. This really has me wondering...

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else takes exception to what LL is declaring as a resolution. I know the amount is small that you have to pay... but that IS NOT the issue. I'm simply considering the scale and principle of the matter.

They were testing their new Double Billing software.

yep, same thing has happened to my partner three times now. They double bill him over and over again and his normal bill is 400$ US per month. They just hit him with it the third time on this last bill.

I got double billed today on my $25 tier. It will only happen twice, I can promise you that much. I feel bad for sim and island owners. This kind of thing could run someone broke and overdrawn instantly.

This is typical of Linden Lab's business practices. If there is more than one solution to mistakes on its part it will always opt for the one that least impacts upon it with no regard to the impact it has upon its customers. It is consistent with its practice with regards to VAT collection. Linden Lab has no right to hold your money for a month. It also has no right to pass on the transaction charges it has to incur to return your money to you. There is nothing in the TOS or billing policy which allows them to do so. You have no obligation to agree to the processing fee. It is Linden Lab's error and they should bear the moderate cost to reverse the charges. Every REPUTABLE service or goods provider does this and does so apologetically. Only unethical businesses take the morally repugnant stance of nickel and diming its customers and charging them for its mistakes. Personally I would take the refund if for no other reason than to deny Linden Lab from an ill gotten unauthorized one month interest free loan from you.

I am considering it. My average daily balance increase might cost me more than the $1 paypal fee. It's still a crappy move on LL's part.

What really bothers me is the fact we have NO ONE that can stand up to these practices and stop them. They can, and obviously will, continue in them. Worse still, the LL Office is now getting in bed with TV executives (CSI NY) and going 'mainstream'. So, once again... unless we are an SL superstar... our status here is being lowered even further.

I don't know about other 'little people' , but to me, SL is beginning to appear to be a place that has taken a wrong turn - and started taking us down a road that will no longer provide an escape from RL....as it is beginning to be more and more like it.

Unless LL is making an exception, you can't withdraw deposited money anyway, only US$ from LindeX sales.

Also, I've never known a company to refund money without a fight. When Amazon overcharged me their first response was that it would be credited to my Amazon account. After two weeks of back of forth they wouldn't budge and it took the threat of initiating a charge-back on the full amount as agreed by my bank to finally make them refund the overcharged amount back to my credit card.

When my utility company double-billed me they said refunding the money was "too difficult". They didn't even deduct it from next month's bill but kept it until the end-of-year balance.

LL isn't doing anything other companies aren't. That doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make them particularly evil either.

I've found Amazon UK to be quite good concerning refunds. They even refunded me the full cost of an eleven month old DVD player earlier this year because a button on the remote control was faulty (!) but the product was no longer manufactured. They told me to dump the DVD player in the bin, which of course I didn't do. I bought a remote control and had a few extra beers at the pub that weekend.

I had a similar experience with a faulty Netgear router earlier this year.

I would now prefer to pay a few pounds extra and buy from Amazon instead of any other online company because a no quibble guarantee like that is worth its weight in gold.

Anyway, I did have a completely unrelated point to deliver I think.

Regarding refunds. For UK customers, no worries if you paid with a credit card. Call your card issuer, tell them you've been double billed and they will instantly refund your money and claim it back from LL themselves. As long as the correct sum has been paid, I don't see what justification Linden Lab would have for taking punitive action (as they normally do when people are overdue with their tier payments).

Charge-backs generally come with penalty fees (for LL) so they might consider it fair to pass those on again. And from LL's point of view crediting your US$ account is a refund.

The best thing would be to simply start another ticket hinting at escalating it to a charge-back if LL doesn't cancel the transaction on its own.

The charge-back form from my bank needs "proof" that you tried to resolve the situation amicably at least before they'll honour a charge-back request so you might need the correspondence anyway and asking can't hurt .

(My Amazon experience was with Amazon US btw, not Amazon UK)

There are plenty of companies that do not do this. As I said before every REPUTABLE service or goods provider returns money mistakenly taken by them for double charges. Having a large brand such as Amazon does not make the service reputable. Case in point in the United States is AT&T cellular/wireless service. They are complete nightmare. Utility companies almost accross the board have some of the worst business practices as an industry which is why they are almost constantly subject to the scrutiny and actions of the state regulatory agencies and state attorney general's offices in the U.S. Linden Lab clearly falls in the category of not being a reputable business. I haven't observed a single instance in situations like these where they have voluntarily stepped up to the plate and done the right thing. Have you?

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to visit my bank - since I am heading there anyway today - with copies of my trouble ticket and attempt this charge-back. After reading a couple of the stories here and elsewhere, I'm trying to find out where reports of these practices would most benefit everyone.

Well, after further investigation, I find that that LL is protected by PayPal with a chargeback protection service. Isn't that convenient. I wonder how many other double billings are from PayPal accounts.

Lesson learned. Let them deal with my Credit Card Company next time. In the meantime, let them have another (legitimate) complaint lodged at PayPal.

WTF?!?!?!

Ok so I was double billed yeah.

I raised a support ticket. It was answered, they put the money into my second life balance, but they only put the amount without VAT.

So my accounts been billed twice + VAT, but they dont refund the VAT part. Thanks a lot Linden, thanks a bunch!.

Did you reopen the ticket? It may have been an oversight.

I'm still in confusion abouthow LL are refunding this. First they credited my SL account with the US$ overcharged - now they have debited it again. I have not had any emails or corrected invoice or explanation and there is no explanation on the blog. I thnk the correct way would be for LL to refund to my credit card - but it would just be nice to know if that is what they are doing!

Is anyone any wiser?

/me - goes to re-open the support ticket

They credited it to cover what they were about to take out.

Turns out I was not double billed ... I had forgotten to cancel contribution to a group I left which the land was in ... the land was sold back to me (I had bought it for the group). That's gonna be a fun one to work out huh.