Copybot - Take 2

I'm willing to bet not many have noticed this thread in the building forum.

/8/8c/231026/1.html

But I have. The Original Copybot was a program created by LibSL which allowed anyone to capture and reupload the prim representation of items in SL.
After a lot of furor Copybot was deemed 'illegal to use'.

Now there is this new software, which according to the thread, allows one to export prims to XML, and will so allow this to be converted to .obj format, a standardized 3d model format.

So the question is, how is this any different than the original Copybot, and should it be allowed? What safeguards are in place to ensure people don't use it improperly? I think this bears some discussion.

In other words, "my posts in that thread didn't garner enough of a reaction from the people involved because they refused to take the bait so I'll try to work up some hysterics about it here." Yawn.

No, in other words, there are questions to be answered. If the people who created said program won't answer them, we'll have to draw our own conclusions. It seems from what has been revealed, this program is no different than the original Copybot. and therefor would fall under the same ban. Unless you would care to elaborate to the contrary?

This is a moot issue.. you cannot take .xml or .obj file info and reimport it to SL. There's software that's been around for ages that will capture anything you want straight to .obj, skipping the xml all together. My question is so what? You can't DO anything with it other than ogle at it in your 3D program.
Again.. it's a moot issue.

You'd be surprised...OBJ2Sculpt kinda does that

Besides, you can then use peoples designs in other applications, which is still not exactly nice.

It does at least for me, bring up the point that content creators in SL might want to export what they make for sale into other worlds.

Thats fine. But the crux of the issue is, whatif someone decides to do that with someone else's work? What's to prevent that? do I now have to create accounts on every 3D world in existence just to ensure nobody's trying to sell my stuff there? This is where open source is really a double edged sword. LL let it out too early I think, they did nothing to protect content creators before allowing this type of software to be created.

Called RL Copyright laws. *shrugs* What's to stop anyone from taking your content and using it somewhere you've never heard about, and will never see.

As it can't be used to re-import it into SL, this is a discussion best left to private discourse since it doesn't apply to SL except as the parent platform.

Or to put it more simply, it's exactly like any other internet site where content (usually pictures, though different in this case) can be captured on your private PC.

You want to protect your work? Use the RL laws in place.

~Jessy

Just on a note Dari, libSL was created before LL opensourced the client side. Copybot release was also before OSS client release. It was a reverse engineering of their protocol :> So, no, closed source didn't prevent libSL's creation.

I really really hope tho that they'll take another year or two before opensourcing the server side. They have to check every last line of code in there for permission checks and obvious exploits, because unlike with an opensource OS or application, you can't just fix the code and deploy backups to restore stuff. Once things in SL are stolen or fullperm, there's no way back.

Just in case an OSS advocate who keeps on yelling 'opensource the sims NOW!' is reading this.

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/11/14/use-of-copybot-and-similar-tools-a-tos-violation/

If you copy other people's stuff with copybot-like tools, you are lookin' at a permaban, most likely.

Which would make it maybe...not impossible, but kinda hard to capitalise on copying other people's stuff for financial gain in SL (at least).

Welcome to the fate of all digital goods I think Darien - music, movies, etc. share this dilemma.

Yes, I think LL is using the wrong model currently. The way things are now, you are basically selling a link to the data that makes up the object. With the right (or wrong) software, you can access this data with no restrictions. A better model would be to sell what I will call a 'rights license' for lack of a better word. The licence would define what a person could or couldnt' do with the data. Without the license, you could possess the data but not decode it or do anything with it. Think of it like a encrypted zip file, people could copy it, send it all over the internet, whatever, but without the password, it's just bytes. I think this model would both protect content creators, and allow open source if implemented correctly. My 2cents.

I'm sure the prim works you are concerned about are high quality and great items/builds by SL standards but, the reality is that although I can export a build from SL and load it into another world quite easily now, I would probably not do it.

The reason is because models in SL are not very well suited for external use. For example if I wanted to use an SL model in an mmorpg I would need to greatly edit any SL model to remove all the extra faces that are a fact of life in SL. Extra faces are a no-no on pretty much any other platform.

Also SL models are very simplistic compared to something made even in Wings3D. The average SL design would seem very flat compared to typically used game models.

My personal interest in this process is so I can quickly rough create an idea in SL and then load it up in my 3D modeler for completion and eventual export to my engine. On the particular engine I develop with, one cannot be in the world as they build like in SL, so sometimes SL is perfectly suited for a quick impression of a first person persepective of a textured build concept.

So in other words: someone's SL experience would be reduced to only seeing things they own, the rest of SL would be barren since your suggestion would prevent the viewer from getting prim params and textures to render anything the logged on avie doesn't own.

If the viewer needs access to it, it's copiable by *some* means. That's really all there is to it and it's something you'll simply have to accept.

LL also isn't an IP protection agency, they're not required to do a single thing to protect your IP. It's yours, so the responsability of protecting it falls solely on your shoulders.

LOL, not at all. viewing is universal. but transferring to other worlds, to one's PC, operating it, modifying it, etc wouldn't be. Its not really a new idea. Thats the basis for how most DRM (Digital Rights Management) works. And no offense, but I don't have to accept it. Imagine if someone told the Wright Brothers they had to accept that men would never fly. Innovatioin is simply doing what others say isn't possible. There is a way, it just needs to be discovered.

Nope, you don't have to accept it. You might want to gain a deeper understanding of open GL though so you can understand why it's so very difficult to accomplish what you are after. It's not so easy and really SL would have to be rebuilt from the ground up to make asset DRM a reality, and that's not going to happen.

You can pick up the OpenGL Programming Guide - "The Red Book" probably on Amazon. When you've solved the problem please let us all know. Maybe you'll make SL a viable developer platform!