Really confused....

I own a few parcels across the mainland, and i go to some extent and expense to set them up as public parks, with trees, grass, poseballs, picnic tables, and find that people really seem to hate them. I personally love parks and gardens, and think that roadside parks help to beautify Second Life, in contrast to millions of walls everywhere covered in ads and porn. I receive numerous complaints about stupid little things like a tree is too big, or the birds are too loud, or the grass is going into a neighboring parcel. Now, i have no issues moving things around if a tree is in your shop or something, that is fine, i understand, i wouldnt want someones tree in my store either. But is there really so many people who hate the idea of a pleasant public garden, and block me in with 20m tall advertisement walls, and even threaten to report misuse? I wasn't aware that building a public garden for all to enjoy in Second Life qualified as misuse. I am getting quite irritated with peoples obsessions with controlling other people's land. And just out of curiosity too, being that so many people love to put a 1/2m thick wall exactly in the middle of the parcel boundary, isn't there a rule about 1m easement between parcels anyway? I would really like some kind of input on this one, as i work really hard to make SL more enjoyable for anyone and everyone, and seem to get nothing but assholes with whiney bs complaints about how deep my grass is, or that a tree isn't pretty enough to be near their parcel. Are people really this stuck up? Aren't we here to enjoy SL?

Yes.. yes they are

Hi Floyd, I love what you're doing. Sounds like you're just getting neighbors who don't love it, who are into 'something else'. No controlling that, on Mainland. I have a resident like that, on my estate sim who has open land filled with trees, and beautiful things, all just open for anyone to enjoy. Now true, on my sim, we cannot have businesses selling things, as it's a non profit sim. So that part isn't an issue anyway. The point is that there are people like you, here and there, who just want to see SL more beautiful. Just have to understand that it doesn't conform with everyone's feelings. There was a guy, on the mainland (someone will say his name here, I can't remember it right now). He made beautiful little fountains, with a text running over the top, talking about making SL more beautiful. The fountains were freebies. I can send you one if you want, they copy. I have one on all my land parcels. As for builds on the parcel line, that's a mainland thing that nobody controls. On estate land it's in the covenant most likely, what the easement is. Mine is 2 meters back from the parcel line. No one has complained about that, seems fair. Mainland doesn't have a covenant, so they aren't breaking any rules I guess. I hope you don't get disheartened, there are many who will love what you're doing, you may never know who you have brought a smile to, as they pass by.

I'm sorry this is happening to you
Move the tree, ignore the rest and keep the beautification going. Most of us love it.

Hi, Floyd, welcome to the forums! If you want someone more appreciative to see your park(s), drop me the LMs ... I always have a garden wherever I live.

If you're feeling courageous, you could post slurls here - but of course you might get a flood of folks who are not only appreciative, but have suggestions for improvements, gah! (Of course, some of them make plants, so you may get a few gifties too).

I think it's time for another forum "home tour", this time of people's gardens!

Hi Floyd,

On Mainland, builds can be to the parcel line, so no there really is no easement at all. As for the bird sounds, go into the about land and under the media tab check the box to restrict sound to that parcel. The best thing you can do is just make sure your objects are not overhanging. POSSIBLY the only misuse they could report you for might be the poseballs. Make sure they are appropriate for the land rating.

What you do with your land is no more misuse than what they do with theirs. You pay the tier, don't worry if they think a tree etc is not pretty enough to be near them. Any Linden would likely tell them that beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc etc.

Arbor Project is a good group to join with lots of members who have similar projects who are happy to help.

Stop by Dongyeongju sim sometime (LM's in my profile picks). I have a park that takes up most of the area and into Doi sim. There are some absent neighbors but most have been there long term, and a new neighbor who has several park projects as well.

Mainland is always a grab bag of surroundings. Its best to try and have as much dialogue as possible with neighbors. But some of what you are describing is bordering on harassment.

I've never heard of the 1 meter 'easement' rule. Though placing a wall or anthing else on someone else's property is certainly against the ToS. Making a wall a meter thick and encroaching that wall a half meter inside someone else's property can be AR'd.......if they won't move it voluntarily then I would go ahead and put in the AR. However the same goes for your trees and their branches hanging over your neighbor's land.......you will have to move them so that no part of the prim encroaches your nieghbors' land. Be aware that some trees have parts of the branches that are invisible......even the invisible part cannot legally encroach on someone else's property. Also your bird and nature sounds should probably be restricted to your parcel only. As far as people bitching about what's pretty or ugly...........ignore that crap.

And keep up the good work.

Hey, come join me in Fietzo. Please. We could use a few more like minds on SL Beautification.

Me and at least one other neighbor have set up nice little ground level gazebos and a couple of trees and places for people to just sit around.

And yes, I do have one neighbor who moved in recently and put up a brick wall. But her plot is for sale, and sooner or later she's either going to move on or get bought out (she's way over priced it though... so I suspect this won't happen until she faces tier payments).

But I would gladly welcome anyone who likes parks and pleasant public scenery. I keep my buildings, shops, and personal sexbeds ( ) to my skyboxes.

- Ok yes, I have one empty Japanese teahouse on one of my plots with a construction sign out front. My plan is to let that bug me to the point where I get annoyed enough to build something myself. The problem is that the darned teahouse looks too nice because I'm not willing to put something ugly where others can see it.





Its driving me nuts that you all keep using easement backwards here.

A restriction preventing you from doing something on your own land is a negative easement. An easement gives you access to the land of another.

Easements typically are for right to pass over. In the real world USA, you cannot put up banlines, much as people tend to think you can - if doing so land locks another property away from a public access-way - ie: everyone who doesn't touch a 'protected road' gets an easement to cross over the land of whoever it takes to most easily reach such a road. In the UK, if I recall properly, it's even more open - no banlines; if you have private land you have to provide a point and path for people to walk through it.

Though most people are familiar with real world easements with things like trees or roofdrains that cross over the property line by a few inches.

Negative easements - barring what you can do on your land, are almost universally un-enforceable in US law. Even a restrictive covenant, which for a lay person is the same basic effect, is very hard to get enforced.

But SL land isn't property, in a legal sense - so I guess Estate owners can hold people to restrictive covenants.

Mostly, people living on estate land are pretty much of the same mind, regarding the estate, have a pretty clear sense of the type of place they want to live in SL. They have to agree to the covenant before purchasing the land, so there's no surprises. I don't see this as restrictive, but as a mutual desire of neighbors to have the type of sim they want. I always felt this, but knew it for sure the day a huge, black, BDSM club sprung up next to my little residential parcel on the mainland. Blocked every hope of a view I had; wasn't a thing I couold do about it. Now, that was restrictive. To me anyway.

Yes, particularly in the case of someone with a small parcel who has no choice but to do their building near said invisible parts of the branches, and keeps 'catching' them when trying to click on their own prims.

It wouldn't be fair to just expect people to put up with that (instead they should AR the encroachment).

On the topic of putting aside land for parks and such: probably more people appreciate this than the owner ever imagines. (Human nature being what it is, such owners are bound to hear more from the disgruntled than from the, er, gruntled.)

They might want to control what you put on your land, but they can't.

Keep doing things your way, I am sure the vast majority do enjoy it.

People that make such an effort to make something for all to enjoy, should receive encouragement and respect.

2 thumbs up for you.

Basically as has been said: make SL nicer as you see fit.

Just do keep an eye out on the tree edges. Even (especially?) the built in 1 prim trees have some invisible parts that can mess up camera and such. So zoom in and out, with tree movement turned on (it's off by default these days, can be found in preferences-graphics) untill you're fairly sure it won't hang over your neighbour's land, not even when the wind blows that way.

For encrouchment, prims are allowed to have their edge (whether it's edge of the bounding box or edge of the visible part of the prim, incase the prims' appearance goes outside the bounding box) on the landborder, and are not allowed to extend beyond it in any way.

People will always have "odd" assumptions about what looks good and what doesn't. I bet there have been complaints about trees that have stood somewhere for ages, and did not encrouch in any way, blocking the view to some neon signs next to the doors of some biab shop that just settled in. Mute + rezzing some additional foliage right in front of their entrance but still not encrouch by even an inch is the only sensible answer to that really.

The legal term for an agreement that restricts what you can do with your land is a "restrictive covenant"

The legal term for a person having a right to restrict what you can do with your land is called a "Restrictive Easement."

A covenant and an easement on the other hand - are rights you gain to use or enter other people's land.

So it doesn't matter if you don't see it as 'restrictive' - that's just the correct wording.

What you keep referring to as covenants and easements are not that, but restrictive covenants and restrictive easements.

Easements and covenants give you greater rights, restrictive easements and restrictive covenants take rights away.

A homeowner's agreement in a suburb is a classic example of a restrictive covenant - and an example of one which can often actually be enforced (largely because it is a restrictive covenant and not a restrictive easement).

Essentially, what's been bugging me here is that SL users are using 'bad grammar' on this.




Yes I frequently 'catch' people hanging out in one of my gazebos. I'm often surprised when they apologize for being there...

My thinking being that - I put it there for them to use.

Pussycat, you are using RL terminology to describe a SL situation. I'm aware of the legal RL terminology but am not discussing an RL situation. They are so different that to me there's no comparison. N'er the twain shall meet, and all, especially regarding land issues. Peace.....

people like you are making SL pleasant. and for that, I commend you.

I am building a public skate park for all to enjoy.. nothing for sale, no ads.. just come and hang out. It's my dollar a day contribution to the better of society as well.

Yes, but the result is that you keep saying yes when you mean no. It makes no sense.

You can't describe a dog using the word cat and expect to be understood.

The other night I teleported home to my skybox and saw two green arrows "downstairs" on my lawn. I popped down briefly to see who was there and a couple of people were hanging out on the bamboo float on my pond. I teleported back up immediately so as not to disturb them, but it gave me a little lift knowing that someone was enjoying (or at least using...) the space I'd made.

I thank all of you for your encouragement, and thank you Treasure Ballinger for the wonderful fountain, i put one on every parcel. I only wish i had the income to afford a higher tier and more land, but i guess we can only do what we can. Anyone who would like to help support me is welcomed to ask how. I enjoy building custom homes, and writing small scripts for my friends, and do so for very little cost, if any. Anyone who appreciates a pleasant and enjoyable stay in Second Life is more than welcome on my land any time, and i would love to see it being used Here are two of my smaller parcels. The one in Sanchez is 256m and protected roadside, one of my better ones. The one in Ling is very small, only 160m, but its next to a green field owned by Linden maintenance, and there's lots of room to play there.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sanchez/74/82/2
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ling/142/60/55

I also have a much larger park that I am still working on at my home:

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sienso%20Tala/229/113/105

My home is much more isolated and far from linden roads. The sim is gorgeous snowland, and i own 4600m there on the edge of the cliffside overlooking the ocean sunset. The garden is at 2000m, it is very green, lots of trees, and plenty of room and poseballs for people. Family group members have build rights on all my parcels, as well as house access at home.

Please feel free to come hang out and chat, cuddle, dance, or just have fun. I want all to enjoy! ^-^

Wow, is it 2007 again so soon?

I visited these locations in the SLURLS.

In the first location, I would remove the large backgrounds you put at the borders of the parcel. You have limited parcel sound effects. Good. So your neighbors are not bothered.

In the second location, I recommend selling it and adding to another more sensible parcel. You're sandwiched between two oddly shaped lots and I can see how your existence there can be a frustrating factor. There are just so many places where you can set up a park why here???

Your home parcel looks nice. I would love to see you go all out with the winter wonderland theme here.... Something to think about.

Keep working at it and your efforts will be celebrated...

Good luck.

Yes, this is a problem i have. i can't afford any more land, as i'm maxed out on my current tier. i have 2m left available. I'm just a poor student But if i ever get rich, i'll buy whole sims all over SL! And everyone's invited

Yeah, my snowland is fairly barren still except for some ponderosa and aspen, the current work in progress is the sky garden above my house lotta work still to do.

FWIW, I have the same problem in RL. Neighbors who complain that leaves or blossoms from trees get blown onto thier pristine (read sterile) yards. Personally, I think they should be paying me for the carbon offset, lol. My trees are beautiful, they provide shade and life-giving oxygen. I just don't get living in a sterile box and putting up some kind of umbrella or canopy to provide shade after you've cut down all the trees.

Meh. Some people just like to gripe.

If you like it, keep it. It's what mainland is about.

As for builds and borders, if something slops over onto your land while being grounded on their land, it is still encroachment. You can AR (Help/Abuse Report) it if you want to. Let the Lindens check it out and decide what to do. Usually I think the item is moved back a bit.

View from above to make sure your own objects are not encroaching on their land also.

I think people just get some kind of pathetic power trip out of saying "this is my land, you can't encroach". So what if a tree branch hangs over? If it's not sticking into a building, who is it hurting? But no... It's MY land and therefore I get to be a pr1(k about it. One time I had a tiny little wall that finished off a build nicely... made the whole area look better, it was phantom but it hung over onto my neighbor's parcel by maybe a meter. It was a tiny remote corner of his parcel that he didn't even have anything on, but he asked me to take it down. I talked to him about it and he agreed with me that it looked good and hid some ugly terraforming done by yet another neighbor... but he just couldn't get past the fact that it was hanging over his parcel a little. He knew it was linked to prims on my parcel and therefore not using any of his prims. People lose their common sense and replace it with that "mine mine mine, 4 year old mentality".

Keep on doing what you are doing and try not to let the jerks get you down. You have inspired me. I have a roadside parcel that I have a sky box on and nothing on the ground. I think when I go home tonight I'm going to delete the skybox and make a little road-side park.

It's another of those RL human traits that can't help but be carried over into SL. We're so territorial. People have spent fortunes in legal wrangles or done terrible things, even committed murder, in rows between neighbours about a relatively minor encroachment over a RL boundary. Wars have errupted to defend a few yards of national territory. Whole continents are plundered and indigenous populations wiped out so another lot can "own" that part of the planet.


And btw, get orf my lahnd. *loads shotgun*

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Aes