Dual Graphics Cards / SLI configuration?

I've tried doing a search for this but didn't find an answer.

I'm going to be buying a Falcon NorthWest Mach 5 PC.

From an SL standpoint only, does it pay for be to have 2 graphics cards in SLI mode, or doesn't SL recognize an SLI configuration?

If not, the card they offer is an Nvidia GeForce GTX 285 (1GB).

Opinions please.

I don't know about the SLI thing sorry, but I run an Nvidia GTX285 with 2gb Ram and it usually laughs about SL... having mostly 60fps stable so if it is cheaper I would say go for the GTX as it is far enough to run SL...

No, SL doesn't do anything that would be better served by an SLI configuration.

From what I have read, you can get a performance boost in SL if you force alternate-frame rendering, but not as much as an optimized application would get.

There is an open JIRA about this issue.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7964

Thanks for the quick replies.

They also offer the "GeForce GTX 295 1.8 GB" but I was told that if SL didn't benefit from a dual graphics card setup, the 295 would also be a waste of money because it's basically two cards in one. Two GPU's on the same card so only one GPU or half the card would be in use.

Beowulf,

You mentioned a GTX 285 that has 2 MB? hmmmm,,,. I'll have to ask them if that can install one of those for the extra ram!

You usually can not install and additional GDDR to a Graphics card as it is not exchangeable. Mine came with 2 GB from the start there are some around...

One use for an SLI situation is if you run multiple accounts at once on multiple monitors and want *all* of them to be high frame rate and detail. I use a Nvidia 7950GT 512mb, and play with most settings turned up near maximum. I think 8000 or later series high end cards just max out SL's capabilities and there is not much reason to load up on better graphics cards until they add more graphics features like arbitrary meshes and shadows.

Not any 8000 series...SL will hammer the low-end versions. 8600 will run on high, 8800/9600/9800 should run high-ultra settings.

I did not know anyone made a motherboard you could SLI with the onboard GPU.

Not that it matters if you are want a dual moniter setup each with its independant card. In that case, SLI is unnecessary overhead to the process and will actually have a detrimental (albeit only slght) effect.

As I point out every time someone asks this question, mileage varies considerably from system to system. On my desktop, which has dual 8800 GTX's in it, I get about a 30% boost to FPS in SL when SLI is enabled. On my laptop, which has dual 8700M GT's in it, SLI yields about a 10% boost to SL FPS.

Personally, I've never experienced anything but an increase on any system I've ever used. Bot some people report no change whatsoever, SLI or no SLI, and others actually report a slowdown. The only way to know for sure whether it will be of benefit on YOUR system is just to go ahead and try it out.

I'd imagine other factors besides just the graphics cards probably make a big difference. The type of motherboard you've got, the type of RAM, CPU, driver versions, OS, overall system health, etc., quite likely all play a role.

Also, you might want to consider SLI, if you're playing other games that would majorly benefit from the SLI feature. Do not limit your gaming rig to just SL specifics.

Nope! I don't not plan to use this new machine for any games! I really do not consider SL a game.

Below are the specs I'm considering. I might still adjust some of the options fro higher end components, but I doubt it.

Please feel free to comment.
=========================

Power Supply
700 Watt Modular
Motherboard
ASUS P6T Deluxe
Processor
Core i7 950 3.06GHz
Processor Cooler
Liquid Cooling
Memory
12GB (6x2GB) 1333MHz DDR3
Video Card(s)
GeForce GTX 285 (1GB)

Sound Card
On-Board Audio
Networking
On-Board Ethernet
Hard Drive
500GB - 7200RPM
Hard Drive 2
500GB - 7200RPM

Optical Drive
22x DVD+/-RW
Optical Drive 2
Blu-Ray RW & DVD +/- RW
Media Reader
Internal Media Reader
Operating System
Home Premium & 7 Upgrade Coupon

I'd probably go with a bigger power supply, so you'll have some headroom in case you want to add anything else on, like additional hard drives, more video cards, etc. Other than that, it looks like a nice selection of components.

I assume that's triple channel memory, by the way? Nice. From everything I've read, 6GB of triple channel will blow away 8GB of dual. 12 should be screamin'.

I'm not a fan of onboard audio, but I'm kind of a sound snob. Most people don't have a problem with it. X-Fi's are cheap enough these days, and sound quite good, if you ever want to add one on.

Also, this probably goes without saying, but make sure that Home Premium you're getting is the 64-bit version. It would be a shame to pay for 12GB of system RAM, and then only be able to use 3, which is what would happen if its 32-bit.

Anyway, congrats in advance on the purchase. You're gonna have a nice system there. I'm a little jealous.

Hiya Chosen,

Yeah, they do offer a 1000 watt and a 1200 watt power supply for not much more money which I will take advantage of! And yes, the vista OS is 64 bit. I might wait until Windows 7 comes out and have Falcon install it for me. They've already been using the latest beta version and haven't had any issues, so they say.

They also said that they would load SL on the machine and if I gave them a user ID & password, they would log in and put SL, and the PC through it's paces to ensure I won't have any performance issues. It seems that a few people who work at Falcon also use Second Life! Now that little extra servicing I really like!

Once I finally order the Mach 5, I'll post the final configuration here in the forms.

No way would I give them my SL user name and password. They don't need it to put SL through its paces. They can and should use their own account for that.

Second that.

Your computer is overkill for SL. A Core i7 has hyperthreading, so you have 8 virtual cores available. Sl can only use 2. You have tons of memory, and if those hard drives are in RAID 0, they will load programs/textures very quickly. You also have liquid cooling, so I am assuming you plan on overclocking the CPU/GPU. What you have is a professional video editing system. Just set everything in SL to max except internet speed, which you should adjust until you start losing packets. Your only bottleneck on this computer is the network.

If you want them to test SL, set up an account just for testing, or have them set it up.

Dual SLI video cards are awesome. I have a pair of nvidia 512 cards... and I get crazy good framerates. Sometimes SL looks like raw HD video footage (except for being obviously rendered meshes)

I actually need to go in and redo my flexi settings on some items, because what looked great with my old video card now looks a little too energetic.

Awesome video hardware is awesome. Remember that you're not buying a PC to be compatable with SL today, you're buying it to be compatable with whatever SL becomes in the next few years.

Definitely do not let them have your username and password to "put SL through it's paces." If they use SL, then they should do it with their own accounts.

Other than that... I envy you.. I do.

The username/password request sounds odd, to say the least. I'm quite surprised Falcon Northwest would ask for that. From what I've been told from friends who have dealt with them, they do go way out of their way to provide insanely good customer service, so it's not altogether unexpected that they would make the offer to test the machine with a program you want to use. But somebody definitely goofed in asking you for your login info. That's not an appropriate request, obviously.

Anyway, I've got an additional thought on the hardware configuration. I hadn't noticed the liquid cooling the first time around. I'd recommend ditching that. In my experience, it's just not worth it. It's cool for builders and modders who go to LAN parties, and say, "Look what a good plumber I am," but that's about as far as it goes. Here are the reasons I avoid it, no particular order:

1. Between the pump, all the tubing and joints, and the radiator, there's a lot of room for mechanical failure. If anything dies while the computer is running, that CPU's gonna overheat right quick, since it likely won't have any passive cooling on it at all.

2. Liquid doesn't necessarily cool a system any better than air. In fact, it's often worse. My desktop originally came with a liquid system. After it eventually failed, I replaced it with a good Zalman CPU fan, and a couple of ordinary case exhaust fans, and now the machine runs a good 10 degrees cooler, across the board, than it ever did with the liquid.

3. Don't believe the hype that liquid is quieter than air. It CAN be, but it's usually not. If it's a good system, it will incorporate a discrete radiator to cool the liquid, away from the CPU and other heat-generating components. That radiator is itself an air-cooled device, with a big old fan on it, and those radiator fans tend to be just as loud as a good CPU fan. Cheaper systems won't have the radiator, and will instead put a fan right on the back of the CPU water block. This is a ridiculous design, in my opinion, since it's basically the same thing as putting a regular heatsink and fan on the CPU, only it happens to have liquid flowing through it, for no apparent reason. There's no reason to assume that that waterblock fan wouldn't be be just as loud, if not louder, than any ordinary CPU fan.

4. Depending on your case design, and how elaborate the plumbing is, the tubing can be a PITA to work around when you want to swap out components. It's not like just having a wire in your way, which you can unplug temporarily when you need some elbow room. A tube filled with liquid isn't something you can just pull out.

5. One word, leaks. This may be redundant, since I already mentioned mechanical failure. But I thought it worthy of its own point, since it happens to be what killed mine. The seals around the water block on the CPU gave out, and the processor got completely soaked. Luckily, the machine was off at the time. I don't know if the coolant was non-conductive or not. If it wasn't, then needless to say, the CPU would have been destroyed instantly had it been on, and it quite likely the short circuiting would have started a fire as well. It turned out the CPU survived intact, and worked just fine after it dried. But it easily could have gone the other way. I don't ever want to take that risk again.

6. Liquid cooling tends to be expensive. A really good fan, like a Zalman 9500, costs about $40. The cheapest complete liquid systems I've seen tend to start at more than twice that, and the sky is the limit from there. $200-300 or more is not uncommon.


I'd suggest talking to Falcon about air cooling vs. liquid, and see what they have to say.

An important point to remember when choosing one card or two. One thing that a lot of people don't realize when making recomendations is that 2 lesser cards that are equal in performance to a single better card will OUTLAST that single card in remaining competitive and longevity. Shared workload also means shared stress and heat damage, which is less for each card than when one card bears it all. There's some processing power overhead left on the second card that hardware-based physics can make use of, which isnt the case with a single card. Also if you pop and fry your video, a single card will cost much more to replace and your system will be down. However, with 2 cards it's nearly always only the master card that fails, so that's a lot cheaper to replace, AND you still have one working card to run your system with. 2 cards do use more power, and although individually they'll produce less intense heat than a single card will, together they'll probably create a little more heat in total inside the case, so good air flow from the case fans is a must. Like everything, SLI has it's plusses and minuses, but from a gaming standpoint I really do prefer having the bonuses that 2 cards provide. I'll be adding my second GTX 260 to my system within a week or so.

Never give out your SL name/password... ever. They can fine tune SL for you using any good OpenGL game, or create a junk alt for them to use.

My last system had liquid cooling in it.. wasn't a problem at all. For that you have ask yourself which is worse... a little extra noise from the radiator fan?... or discharging all that CPU heat from an air cooler (which is a ton btw) directly into your case so it affects every other component in the system as well? Heat kills, so it's a valid question to ask yourself.

All of your points regarding using my Sl user ID & Password are very well taken. I was going to set up a basic ALT account but I will ask them if one of their techs who subscribe to SL can use their own first.

Regarding the liquid cooling. The Mach 5 comes standard with liquid cooling now. I can ask about have fans installed in its place but it does have a full 3 year warranty. As per the issue Chosen had with his liquid cooling, I will bring that up with the service writer when I order the PC!!!! I definitely want the best cooling possible!

And,,,, I am thinking about adding a second video card in SLI mode. I like the thought about less stress, and heat with two cards in use rather than one and also the fact of having the PC further configured for what ever is coming down the line with SL or any other video intensive software.

You guys are GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!