announcement/discuss... creative commons licensing for Nyoko's Bodyoil2!! :)

greetings all! well this has been a long-simmering desire on my part, to generate some sort of license agreement so that other makers could use my bodyoils if they like in their skin and swimwear creations... all the traditional RW/contract routes though seemed much too overblown and out-of-step with second life creations. i then i read an interesting column by cory doctorow...

"Digital Licensing: Do It Yourself" - http://www.internetevolution.com/document.asp?doc_id=176353&

mr. doctorow's column suggests that using the creative commons license, with a few modifications, would allow skinmakers to enter into an easy creative partnership for such works, without nearly the fuss as wrangling a 'real-world' style contract demands. customers seeking to 'remix' their purchases for their own use would be allowed to do so (although i would only be providing half of the equation - even if my products were to gain creative commons status, the customer would still need to seek the permission of the original skinmaker too, if the OM does not already provide their own cc licensing.)

also, it seemed to manage to cover the ground necessary for commercial creators to enter into a fairly-quick-and-painless agreement to license works to use in their own products. although his column was only very cursory and rough-form (and didn't really pertain to second life usage), i felt it was the right direction to pursue.

to keep this post short, i won't repost my entire agreement (although it should only be one screenful itself) - you can read it here:
http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/CCbodyoil2.html

:0 i'd be greatly interested to hear any advice and feedback you all might have about this 'new way'. i couldn't seem to find any ready examples inworld of this type of cc licensing... i would hope that maybe this could provide customers and creators alike a way to feel more comfortable with their purchases and prodcuts, within the technical limits of our avatar's clothing/skin layers.

certainly the non-commercial usages (rebaking bodyoils and skins together) are already 'assumed' by many customers ;0 and i certainly do not want to argue with my own customers about it, espcially if they are intent to do so anyways. ;0 and on the other side, commercial-use licensing, well, is currently just as non-existant, but you wouldn't know it from the number of dmca filings i've had to do in the past. ;0 if these illicit-product creators could've had a more ready route to have a proper agreement and fee schedule with me, then perhaps it's better for both of us...

thoughts?? :0 comments?? :0 more cowbell?? ;0 write it here please! thanks much for your time... and thanks so much for your support; all of you - my good customers and friends, my community, even the "i hate bodyoil" crowd!! ;0 lol it just wouldn't be the same if -everybody- liked it lol. take care, have fun!!

There may be commercial imperatives here, or other considerations, but I just wanted to be sure that you're aware that in a release not too far away, we'll be able to wear multiple textures on a single clothing layer (up to five or six, I think, on each layer), in whatever order we choose within a layer, so the need to bake oil textures into the skin itself will diminish, at least from an end-user perspective. For details and status, Nyx Linden is the developer most involved with that.

;0 oooh ye gods! ;0 well that's good news - although i've assumed all along that such a thing was in the plans, i didn't know if it was already in the pipeline or not. it does seem we are seeing some long-planned features finally appear with each update, but i would guess that this new feature would 'be a ways off'.

and even when such new features finally come to pass, i imagine there will still be some desire and call for prebaked products and rebaking services - perhaps at a more diminished rate, but it probably won't complete go away. but, that's all up for speculation... i certainly look forward to more total layers and options; we all very much want that!! thanks for your post and thoughts qie! i'll calendar nyx's office hours and stop by next time if i can. :0

p.s. even as more options come online, i've already encountered several varied situations for collaborative works that, while usually doable with a reference and a handshake, sometimes could use a 'contract' of some sort to seal the deal. although it's presumptuous of me ;0 i would hope that maybe this format might provide an example for others seeking a way to verbalize their agreements. also for example, if skinmakers often find their works getting rebaked with my bodyoils, if they perhaps wish to offer their customers the same leniency for non-commercial rebaking, then they might want to copy the format and grant their customers permission to do so - my agreement only provides one part of that permission equation. dunno... that's why i bring it up for discussion...

Are you sure you mean "CC-SA" and not "CC-NC-SA"? The license page you linked to looks more like CC-NC-SA.

I mean, really? Wow! Better late than never!!

humm from my comcast page
http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/CCbodyoil2.html
i link to
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode

so no, i am not linked to the CC-NC-SA page... if you found me linking to nc-sa instead, where didja find that, what pagelink did you look at?? :0

this is what i intend, and as far as i know, is correct - CC-SA provides non-commercial private use 'out of the box', while also providing for the possibility for a commercial user to license in.

thanks for the heads-up argent! ;0

That's what I'm referring to as "the page you linked to" from the forum here.

I know. That's what confused me. The page linked from your message says that your license is CC-SA, and links to the CC-SA page, then says that your license is NC.

CC-SA allows commercial use, out of the box. It doesn't have any restrictions on commercial use at all. It just requires that any use, commercial or otherwise, is also CC-SA ... under CC-SA someone can even sell your body oil layers for resale. If you don't want commercial use, you need to go with a dual-license... CC-NC-SA for non-commercial users and a conventional license for commercial use... similarly to what Linden Labs does with the GPL client.

;0 ahh, then i will re-review and consider that!! thanks very very much for pointing that out.

- p.s. okay argent, thanks very much for pointing that out! :0 you are right i think ;0 i am trying to cram my license -into- an existing cc, when cory's article really means a separate agreement co-existing alongside - if it is at all layered, it's my us copyrights/trademarks on top, followed by cc's modification of user/creator rights, and then - either below or alongside, if we were treeing it - a commercial 'self-serve license' as cory proposed. and i should be essentially starting from the more restrictive end of the scale.

i would like creators' and customers' opinion alike of this summary description of the license:

http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/
"Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike
This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work non-commercially, as long as they credit you and license their new creations under the identical terms. Others can download and redistribute your work just like the by-nc-nd license, but they can also translate, make remixes, and produce new stories based on your work. All new work based on yours will carry the same license, so any derivatives will also be non-commercial in nature."

i wonder what ramifications and 'assumptions' that might be made upon this kind of license within second life. would that be enabling an uncontrollable 'freebie-fest' of otherwised nonfree items where none were intended? ('hey, it's not commercial use'? ;0)

specifically in my text, i'd proposed amending that with:
"NON-COMMERCIAL USE of your purchased bodyoil(s) is allowed, PROVIDED you do not republish these works in any manner, modified or unmodified, for free or profit in a manner that impeeds the author's copyright." - i fear that may be contradictory. it's meant to make sure that no one goes putting a modified work into a freebie box or handout, although i understand that person-to-person transfer of works might fall into 'the hole' there.

however i still haven't fully grokked the commercial protection sections of the cc yet... :0 re-reading several times... ;0

p.p.s. i did pull my license page to first make sure that i have the two concepts properly separated. ;0 i'll repost asap!

;0 ok, i've done a review and re-jiggled my text a bit...

along with some more fine-tuning throughout ('reproduce' instead of 'distribute', this seems well-but-differently defined in cc), i basically enclosed my non-commercial text as a 'summary' instead. and that would be my big worry then, i guess - i do not want to contradict what the cc license may say, just to define what i -hope- to allow (and what not to).

:0 a bit more confident in the 'self-serve license' part, now that i think i've defined that a bit more separately. :0 see what you think...

http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/CCbodyoil2.html

That is pretty much the point of the CC-SA abd CC-NC-SA licenses, yes.

Then there's no point in using the CC license, because the point to the CC license is to allow controlled redistribution... but to allow redistribution.

:0 fascinating... so i should perhaps just chuck cc entirely?? and my 'summary' would then become the entire intent and scope of my 'non-commercial license'? spooky - but kindova turn-on lol. ;0 thanks much argent!

anybody else wanna weigh in or have thoughts about all this?

p.s. oh for woe i can't change the thread name, if that's the case... ;0 i like the spirit of cc, but perhaps in this case, i really can't apply it, certainly not in a whole-hearted fashion. :\ my own (yes, commercial ;0 among other things) interests aside, i can't pass along that kind of pre-determined decision to other creators who'd otherwise like to collaborate.

:0 i do want to keep the spirit of the work for non-commercial use though... are there any readers who'd like to chime in on that side of it, does it sound too restrictive?

creators, does the text of 'self-serve license' sound like good protection all around? would you maybe come up with more collaborative, potentially innovative works, if such a creature was more commonly offered?

another p.s.

hmm, then it almost certainly makes cc completely at odds with any combo of 'no-transfer' permissions. ;0

Well, since most of my best selling products are open source (BSDL, similar to CC-Attribution), I think you might benefit from seriously considering using CC-SA or CC-NC-SA. I'm just making sure you do so with open eyes.

:0 vellll, i think there's different considerations to make between whether something's software, and something's a texture... what perms are your stuff, if open-source (and 'best-selling?' full-on open permission? what's your 'modus operandi' lol for your warez and business? would whatever works for you, work for texture handling? i should go visit your place now, lol sorry i never had... ;0

but i truly invite feedback about how best to handle this licensing thing (lol all you lurkers, c'mon! ;0 i get asked about once a week in my own place about reburning textures, so y'know, if you have an op about it, c'mon out with it.

Yes.
Honor system. It's really an experiment, I've got a number of goods at a number of prices and with varying permissions, and I've found that the tighter the permissions the fewer the sales... all the way down to full perm.
I don't know. I don't sell many textures. Like I said, I just figure whatever you do you do it with eyes open.

OOPS CRAP! :\ looking back at my messages, i thought i'd posted the new url ;0 - since i am now heading in a non-CC direction, i changed the link. here we go:

http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/license-bodyoil2.html

some fresh tweaks... removed the words 'self-serve', since the commercial use agreement would no longer be (and really never was, how i'd written it ;0) 'self-serve'... also spelled out a bit more detail for rebaking service providers.

had to pay attention to a bunch of other busy things the past few days, but letting the ideas and wording 'percolate' a bit. ;0 as always, feel free to read and review, and offer any comments or advice... thanks!!