Will neighbor's temp-rez boxes lag me down?

A friend of mine has a store a few parcels down from where my store is, in the same sim. She has a lot of those temp-rez boxes for her high-prim items. I'm not positive how they work, but she can put a 30 prim table set on one box and I guess it only counts towards 1 prim...something like that. She probably has 15 or so of these things. It seems to me ever since she put all these up at her store, that its causing things in my own store to act wacky....taking longer to rez, textures overlapping, things like that. Is my mind just playing tricks on me or is it possible her temp-rez boxes are messing me up too?

I've been wanting a bigger parcel as well, and the one I want is directly next to her store so I'm worried about the problem being even worse if I am closer. When I am in her store or even looking at it from a distance all her items are disappearing and reappearing real quick.

Quite possibly.

Could you suggest she try a vendor that rezzes her primmy goods only when someone is there browsing (clicking the "next" button) instead of running constantly off a timer? She's lagging herself and her customers out too.

yes, those things can cripple a sim pritty bad

as abouve, try talking with her in a nice way and help find a solution like the temp rezzer on command instead of continually, good helpfull feedback and willing to solve it will go far in this case without creating problems between the 2 of you

I think it would totally cause client lag. Temp or not, it's still prims and textures to rez. Temp-rezzers and 1 prim rezzers are just ways around prim limits on land.

I'd do what Anti suggested and just cross your fingers.

Thanks for the quick responses! I have suggested the vendors with the scrolling "next" buttons and she pretty much shot it down....she wants all her items out and available for people to see....problem is whenever I'm over there things are moving around so quick it makes it hard to look at anything. I've tried explaining it and she's pretty set on her "way to cheat the prim system". I just wasn't sure if it was causing me to lag or I was letting my mind get to me and think I am lagging more. For right now I guess I'll just stick to where I am at instead of moving closer to her!

One can rez (temp or otherwise) a lot of prims on a one-minute cycle without having any noticeable impact on the sim, but it's pretty important that the things being rezzed are unscripted, non-physical, and phantom. And that they not have too many different textures from whatever was rezzed before.

The symptoms mentioned suggest that the problem stems mostly from the number of new textures being introduced with each rezzing. And the bad part about that is that it will in fact have greater impact on avatars nearer the event, whereas some of the other rezzing side-effects tend to be more spread-out over the sim, so indeed it could be worse on the nearer parcel in this case.

If the items are actually temp-on-rez (and "counts as one prim" sounds like they are), then the cycle time can't be much longer than one minute, so if there has to be something visible all the time, it will have to re-rez about every minute. If there are 15 of these rezzers, each rezzing, say, 30 prims, that's pretty heavy. And if they cycle through an inventory of items, each with different textures--it's gonna be really difficult for anybody to see much of anything in the vicinity. (And if they're cycling even faster than 60 seconds, it's just making a bad situation worse--for everybody, as Anti points out.)

just been there and yes, it`s the cause

my fps drops by about 10 fps and a lag spike is noticable as the statistics bar shows when a new set is rezzed

i`ve seen MUCH worse tho on wich i`ve based the first reply on, this is relativly still "okish" if you don`t have a moderate pc

Must suck big-time. You have my sympathies.

Ouch, that must really suck!

Thanks for checking it out Alicia (and thanks for the purchase as well!!). Good to know it's not considered really bad. Did you see the big empty parcel in the corner by hers? Thats the one I am considering getting....will moving closer to her store cause the lag to be worse?

Edit: Just read Qie's reply about it lagging more if I am closer, that answers that! Thanks again everyone

yw

yea, knew almost immidiatly it was the spot

you could ask the sim owner to keep track of the resource usage of the scripts with refreshing the debug menu a couple of times per minute and keeping an eye out on the statistic bar to have them see how real the problem is with client and server side

Temp rezzers that constantly re-rez an item may not show as more than one prim on the parcel full limit, but they DO show as prims on the sim-full limit! I know, because I pushed a new Class 5 sim over the sim-wide prim limit with them myself! Doesn't matter if the items are scripted or not. Eliminating the temp-rezzers actually DOUBLED my client frame rate, while in the sim on a low-end system.

Watch the parcel prim counts in the Statistics bar in a sim that has lots of temp rezzers. The count fluctuates wildly, and may even spike to the sim full line. A temp-rezzer that cycles before the old copy vanishes will actually DOUBLE the prim count for that item in terms of sim level impact, when the old 'almost ready to expire' copy is still in place, and a new one rezzes right on top of it.

Tell your neighbor that if they *must* use the temp-rezzers, they should be kind to their neighbors, AND THEIR OWN CUSTOMERS, and make the rezzers only rez a copy on-demand, and only once per command, for a minute. That is plenty to allow a customer to get a good look, and eliminates the constant re-rezzing that will lag everyone's clients down.

Well, my turn for a house call. Alicia is right: this really isn't that bad, and the good news is that the same stuff seems to be rezzing in the same place all the time, so once the textures for that stuff get downloaded to the client, that part isn't much of a problem. (One can see this for oneself, by turning on Client | Consoles | Texture Console and watching the little bars disappear almost instantly after the textures are all loaded.) So, my big worry about being closer making it worse isn't such a big deal. (It's still a little bit location sensitive, because if the prims were completely outside drawing range, then the client shouldn't even have to get all those prim parameters or can at least ignore them when sent.)

But... it's not working. I'm seeing lots of stuff that doesn't stay rezzed, and I think I know why: The parcel only has 439 real prims to play with, and I'm pretty sure one can only rez up to half that number of temporary prims, so 219. But I think there's more than that trying to temp-rez on this parcel at the same time.

So, I think the merchant there needs to trim down the number of items, just to keep everything rezzing reliably.

I wish I could direct her to this thread so she can see I'm not crazy when I tell her it's her rezzers slowing us down....but she doesn't read the forums and would probably freak out if she knew I was asking people about it and her store. I'll try to think of a new constructive way to bring it to her attention!

Some rezzers are better than others - I am using Rezzbox and that seems to be ok.

However, if you start to use a LOT of them you'll see the effect Que has mentioned. I really just use them now for flowers and certain trees and I am not seeing any noticeable degradation of performance as I am nowhere near my prim limits actual or ToR.

The size of the item also may have a bearing but that is just my theory. I have noticed that something in a rezzbox within a 10m cube really didn't like drawing the cube itself.

***edit*** Maybe if she is stubborn, Ange, sending her the comments here in a notecard sanitised of YOUR name and details might do the trick.

It depends also on how prim-heavy the item is. EVERY time the thing re-rezzes, the client receives a whole new object. That is; every single prim (about 1k each compressed) is sent to the client, which then has to convert it into a geometry (not entirely straightforward) and look for any textures or sounds that are required for the object, pulling them from the cache.

Then of course on the simulator-side it has to deal with sending all this data, not to mention calculating physics for the newly created object. A number of "rez boxes" also use object intersection in order to work, which is the worst possible option for the simulator as it has to then process the intersection of the new object with the box.

I used to use a temp-on-rez box for a prim-heavy chair a friend built for me, but I tied it into a sensor which scanned for avatars every minute or so. If it found any then it would start temp-rezzing the chair until such a time as it can no longer find any more avatars. The chair itself however used similar textures to the rest of my home, had no sounds, was phantom and had a detached poseball (the poseball for sitting on it was what rezzed the chair).

This may be the better option for your neighbour; to run a sensor, and when it detects someone it will trigger the temp-on-rez items to appear. Just make sure the sensor isn't some ridiculous time like once a second, avatars who have just arrived need to rez first anyway, most aren't going to notice if a sensor is on a 20-30 second timer.

If I were you, I would put in a support ticket to LL and let them know that you are experiencing some performance issues in the sim.
They will come out and check it out. If they see an issue with your neighbor then they will take care of it...if not, then they will let you know that they saw nothing major.
(you should add in your ticket that you suspect its your neighbors temp rezzors....LL is aware that some temp rezzors are poor performers, and they wil lmost likely check that area out)

They take sim performance seriously and when I have asked them to come out and look at my sim, they were there within a day. Once they found some offending scripts that were lagging the sim, and when I contacted them a few days after to report similar spikes, they acknowledged the issue and restarted the sim.

I wonder if they actually scan the sim's performance numbers to prioritize their response; if so, it may not get quite such timely response in this case because the sim itself is humming along nicely. And that's not surprising because it has lots of open space (and, I'm sure, vast headroom in the sim's total prim count). But the clients within drawing distance of the repeated rezzing will surely have some reduction of frame-rate.

It would be nice to come up with a definitive guide to temp-rezzing because, as others have noted here, it can be a wonderful tool, or if misused, it can be quite a little piggy. In one build, I've used it quite a lot for the decorative "little things" that only need to appear when there's somebody nearby: fruit baskets, flowers, etc., on a big parcel with lots of unused prims--but couldn't possibly fit all the silly "little things" at once. The single sensor that provides security also kinda "tracks" the occupants to see which collections of prims to temp-rez, if any. While debugging all that, I kinda developed a sense of some things that can make rezzing more or less friendly to performance.

One obvious tip is to minimize the amount of calculation that's needed with each rez: the stuff is gonna have the same position and rotation each time, so there's no need to calculate rotated offsets and relative rotations repeatedly.

It really matters whether the rezzed object is scripted or not, especially if the script does anything substantial when rezzed.

I don't have empirical evidence for this, but I decided to only rez phantom objects on the premise that otherwise the physics engine must have to calculate collision envelopes for the rezzed objects, in order to determine whether they should bonk into nearby avatars, etc. (This also must be a function of the non-phantom prim's size, as Cherry mentioned.)

The more avatars in the vicinity, the more pronounced will be any performance impact (even for phantom objects) because the sim has more viewers that need the new prim geometry. For a really busy area, temp-rezzing probably just isn't suitable.

I suspect that Haravikk is correct that the specific prim geometry makes a big difference, too. It just must take longer for the viewer to deal with a bunch of twisted tori than the same number of simple cubes.

And for stuff like "holo-vendors" that rez different things each time, that texture download thing I mentioned in an earlier post can be a big deal--as with regular vendors, only moreso.

I imagine that one could troubleshoot or fine-tune such rezzing by tracking the details of sim performance and client processing (e.g., the Texture Console), because these different factors should have recognizably different effects on the various metrics.

Something that has a considerable impact is if there are many scripts in the temp-rezzed objects. I once had something being temp-rezzed with 255 scripts in it... each time it rezzed, the simulator would pause for a few seconds {:

I agree with all the above!.

I did some extensive testing once and you're correct, it simply comes down to how many prims an object has. There's no other way around it. Has nothing to do with whether an object is phantom or not. and surprisingly - it didn't seem to matter whether the object is within visible range.

If an object made from lots of prims rezzes, everybody on the sim is gonna feel it.


Disclaimer - Linden Lab have made lots of changes to the sim code since I carried out my tests over a year ago. So maybe things have changed!. But I doubt it.

I suspect, though, that the metrics you watched were sim performance figures rather than client console statistics. And from what I've experienced I really have no doubt: if a lot of avatars are in the vicinity of the thing being rezzed, it makes a huge difference to the performance impact. (I freely admit, though, that the phantom-or-not thing is pure speculation, and a side-effect of having been bonked by something I was rezzing at the time. I thought it a "Newton and the apple" moment, but perhaps it just addled my brain. )

I tested it in an empty sim with just me and a friend.

The test involved having a rezzer rez a 200+ prim object whilst watching the Sim FPS and making my avatar repeatedly walk backwards and forwards on the spot. This way I would actually feel the jolt of the lag every time the object was rezzed.

Ange...when the thread looks baked to a turn, copy the whole thing, paste it into a notecard, and give it to her.

I will do that, late last night after reading everything on here I started talking to her and really bringing up the lag in the sim. I figure I'll keep that up today and then tell her I'm going to "investigate"....which in turn I can copy some of the things from this thread to her.