OpenSpace SIM (low prims) - Performances

Everyone knows that low prims island supports only 1875 prims aboard, and they are shared * 4 on a single core (quad core = 16 low prims on it), but im gonna ask about the server performances about the avatar supported, the script perf and other technical details (if anyone knows):

- Does the OpenSpace sims acts like the normal simulators when they are loaded of avatars in normal conditions? (same % of prims usage)
- Does the openspace sims have the same performance on running scripts?
- 4 openspace sims comes always togeter, does they resides on the same core "always" or they are shared around (on virtual machines) like any other simulator? In other word: i can have one of my OS sim on a server and another elsewhere?
- Does these openspace sims are differentiate by server class? May i have openspace class4 and class5? Can me mixed ? two openspace on class4 and two on class5?

....definitively the limitations are just about the primitives, or they must be considered as 1/4 of a normal sim under each aspect (1/4 of av supported.. even if they can be loaded with 100; 1/4 of script performances.... etc.)?

My personal experience is limited (only a month since I got my openspace sims) and I'm only on class-5. So my answers are based on that personal experience plus what I have read and heard discussed here.

- class5 openspace sims seem to handle avatars the same as normal sims.

- class5 openspace sims seem to have as good a script performance as normal sims. Fewer prims usually means fewer scripts, so the limited resources are not pushed too hard.

- like normal sims, the openspace sims are moved around from server to server. For mine, two of them started out on the same server, the other two were on different servers. Now all four are each on a different server.

- you can not mix the set. If you buy them new you will get 4 class5 openspace sims, if you buy them used you might get 4 class4 openspace sims, but the only way to get some of each is to get 4 of each.

Again my experience is limited, but you have all the area, 1/8 the prims, but all the avatars. They come with the maximum default set to 40 avatars per sim, like normal regions. Script performance seems to be every bit as good. For me, I've found script performance is actually better on the openspace sims precisely because they aren't loaded down with 12,000 prims and 4,000 or 5,000 running scripts.

-Atashi

I have 4 opensims, and I just got 4 more today for a total of 8. My obeservations are about the same as Atashi Toshihiko's with one big exception, script performance. An open space just can't handle scripts like a normal sim can. I have a small RP group I rented one to, has at most 10 avatars there at any given time. But i've noticed with about 1500 scripts running, the performance is very sluggish, even slower than a normal sim with 7000 or more scripts running. The frame time is never above 5 ms, so I can only assume the slow scripts are due to it being an openspace.

The last post from Darien let me think, since it is exactly what i've noticed. In other words i've found this:

- In an empty openspace sim (empty = very few prims... no other scripts running except the "huge" one you are testing) the script runs as expected, and exactly like any other normal sim (even if loaded with thousand of prims and other scripts), or the difference is not advisable.

- In a "busy" openspace sim (busy = about 1200 prims over 1850, some other script running, 10/20 avatars onboard, etc.) the exact same script of the example above is running slowly, and the difference is immediatly advisable.

The rest is completely fine: the sim FPS's, the physics, time dilatation, anything is exactly like a normal SIM but not how the server handle the scripts.

So if others are experiencing the same situation it means that an open sim is gonna "suffer" (at least for the scripts) more than a normal sim when it is loaded with prims and (maybe) avatars.
If this is confirmed, it would limit the usage of these sims in some particular circumstances, in example with RPG games (you would need a large space.. less buildings.. but a good script performance), in my case i had to use it for a football stadium, but the script (that runs fine on any other SIM) won't runs ok on these openspace ones.

Hmm interesting -- perhaps I haven't run into that yet because my openspace sims have not yet been filled up. I will continue to monitor them, and keep an eye on the script performance to see if it does start to degrade at some point.

-Atashi

- Does the OpenSpace sims acts like the normal simulators when they are loaded of avatars in normal conditions? (same % of prims usage)

Open space sims share a CPU with three others, if you load your sim the other three will suffer.


- Does the openspace sims have the same performance on running scripts?

No. They are MUCH slower, a good indication is the LandSculpter. On a full prim Class 5 it takes about 1 minute to copy the terrain. On a void sim it takes 6.


- 4 openspace sims comes always togeter, does they resides on the same core "always" or they are shared around (on virtual machines) like any other simulator? In other word: i can have one of my OS sim on a server and another elsewhere?

The 4 sims NEVER share the same core, they share random cores with other open spaces and they can move around, if that hardware fails, thanks to the "you are never tied" to a CPU architecture of the SL Simulator model.

- Does these openspace sims are differentiate by server class? May i have openspace class4 and class5? Can me mixed ? two openspace on class4 and two on class5?

Only Class 5 servers are sold now. You can't buy a class 4, but you can split an existing class 4 region into 4 new open spaces.

they can be purchased individually now, and each supports 3750 prims.
not sure if script performance is any better.

http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/07/announcing-changes-to-the-openspace-product/

Im hoping script performance will improve with the introduction of Havok4 and yes Im thrilled about the new open sim set up.
After hearing non stop about dodgy estate owners the last few days on forums its nice to see that there is some good news from LL for the small but quiet good estate owners who work very hard to keep everything ticking over for their residents.

unfortunate only if you allready have an island, all others are stuck with half a sim of crappy mainland for the same price instead of 2sims of beauty for allmost the same price, wich seems a bit unfair to me.

Just to clarify, Havok is about physics performance. Mono is what will give the real boost to scripting.

Cheers, I dont really have a clue about either but Ive read that they will improve script time and performance between them somehow, which has got to be for the good.

Soooo Im guessing once either or both are introduced to the main grid then the open space and full prim sims will perform better, or do I have this wrong as well?

look at it this way:
in the space of one week LL have announced two things:
1. LL will now act as an escrow agent between residents when dealing with islands.
2. open sims double prim count and can be bought individually
i expect some major change to how land is used is just around the corner. perhaps this is the groundwork or a testcase for 'mini islands' in the future.

as far as today goes, really all you need to do is find a trustworthy island owner to make the purchase for you and pass the tier on. in fact that is exactly what i am doing right now. i see this possibly becoming a regular thing for island owners to do.

Yes, each should improve the sim, although I'm not sure how much testing of them has been done on openspace sims.

you forgot 1 thing in the comparison

scripts used on the avi, ao, weapon, huds, what ever and these do not count in running scripts

Why would script performance on an Openspace sim be less than a regular sim when they use the same class 5 series of servers? Even if 4 Openspace sims reside on the same server i do not see why the performance would be any less than a regular sim.

Can someone explain this to me please?

there are 4 on a cpu, say that on 1 of them there are alot of scripts or people wearing heavy attachements, they could in theory affect the other 3 as they get less cpu time

this testing should have been done with basic avatars and 0 attachements, void sims can hold alot of people of they are light packed (only ao, and no huds, attached scripted objects, 200 prim bling jewelry etc)

there is no other difference but 4 running on 1 cpu compared to 1 normal island on 1 cpu

Exactly Nina,, thats what one of my residents have requested already (within hours of the blog), its going to make for some fabulous landscapes.

This is awesome News - my existing residents will be thrilled to hear they just got a bump of 2X their prim count for FREE I will definitely be in the market for more of these now that they have more value and can be purchased individually...

They are 4 on core <.. it means on a class5 server (quad core) you will have (possibly) 16 openspace running.
But the question why the scripts does not running at the same performance still relevant, i've checked that on an empty openspace sim the scripts running fine, on a busy openspace sim the scripts starts to run poor, so it's not because they are sharing the same CPU with others but there must be (i guess) a sort of "allocated" performance to each virtual machine (a virtual machine is a indipendent task running on a CPU that act like a separate machine.. and it is how the grid works).
I believe Linden Labs introduced (or there were there already) a sort of "limit per sim", in this way a very loaded SIM cannot impact (or impact less) on other simulators (owned by others) that are running on the same CPU.

Class5 Server = 4 cores = 4 normal SIMs - For each is "allocated" a 25% max of troughtput performance (includes how the server handles avatars, primitives, and scripts) of the whole machine/CPU.

Class5 Server = 4 cores = 16 openspace SIMs - For each is allocated then 6.25% of the whole performances, so EVEN if the other cores are free (read: unused by almost empty simulators), as soon you load the sim with av's and prims this is gonna have a *great* impact on scripts performances (coz you are reachine the max allocated peformances per sim).

I summarized the concept, probably the whole thing is more elaborate (a more advanced load balancing; in example: if the other cores are free.. let's use 15% of the total performance... etc.), and i'm not sure if this "system" is really in place. But considering my experience i believe that yes: openspace sims aren't just "low prims" they are in fact 1/4 of sim under other aspects (scripts performances in particular...).

It suprices me noone mentioned that since 4 opensims opereting on 1 cpu, that means 4x the serversoftware for the sim is loaded on that 1 cpu compared to a normal sim were 1x the server software is run on 1 cpu.

Also the sims are probably run in a virtual envoirment, deviding the cpu and memory and all, meaning each opensim can peak and uase max 25% of a cpu, thus these things combined it should be of no suprice that sscript run slower.

It is like virtual server, for example 4x windows is run for 4 clients each having a virtual server deviding the resources in 4. Each virtual server needs to take the load of running in this case the OS, and top only max peaking 25% of cpu, when one runs a software on a virtual server it is allways slower then running that same task on a server loading only 1x the OS

Opensims are not for heavy script usage but for low usages, and having it now doubled its prims makes no difference to that.

If you want to put this to the test, try opening a club on 1 opensim, and the exact same club (same scripts and number of avators) 4x one a normal sim, and you will see the difference clearly.

Cheers

Also keep in mind that the performance may be adjusted differently then a full sim.

Voids may be set to give as much CPU to frame rate and prim rendering etc and scripts take a secondary role. So if the frame rate and physics need more power the scripts time slice is lowered.

Sam

Maybe competition is on it's way quick, (OpenLife and HiPi) and they want to tie down their residents better.

Openlife, or Opengrid, or Deepsim - are so far away from being competition. In my opinion at least.

Log in to 2 out of 3 of them and check it out, i have. These grids are all alpha stage it feels like.

Huh?

From the KB...