Second Life Forums Archive - Remote UI capability?

Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-09-2008 16:11

Greetings,
I am new to SL, and am wondering of there is the capability to send the UI elements (such as the menubar or chat windows) to another screen on the desktop or (more preferably) another computer on the local network.

My plight is this:
The most powerful and capable machine in my home is my Media Center pc, which is connected to the pre-hdmi HDTV in my living room. The problem is that almost no text smaller than 20pt size is remotely readable!

I thought about using a screen-streaming program to send a copy of the screen to another pc, which I would then be able to read the chat text etc. from while still enjoying the full-speed performance offered my my Media Center pc. This however failed, because the network would become so bogged down with the screen-streaming program trying to send video through the network that SL wouldn't be able to connect to the internet very well, not to mention the updates themselves were horribly out of date for the same reason.

I believe it should be a simple thing to forward the basic elements on the screen to another pc, but I would need help. I propose that the client on the host PC would open a network port to send UI info through. The display-client would then authenticate itself using some simple method and receive information from it's host such as "create chat window at x,y" and "focus selection on main menu item 1" and "Append text to chat window 0: blahblahblah"

Does anyone know if this can be done?
I would really appreciate it because my current experiences in SL are at 3FPS with my second best computer and that's with all settings turned to minimum! My computers are all capable of displaying the UI fine, but when I get to anyplace that actually has objects and stuff (like any normal place in SL) they get bogged down trying to render them.

Kidd Krasner

Registered User

Join date: 1 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,938

11-09-2008 16:29

If these systems are all running Microsoft Windows, look into setting up Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection. This is a mechanism that will let you login to a remote system from your local system, running a replica of the remote desktop in a window or full screen on the local system.

If you do this, pay attention to permissions and firewall settings, because you don't want people from outside connecting to your system this way.

Anti Antonelli

Deranged Toymaker

Join date: 25 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,091

11-09-2008 16:43

From: Kidd Krasner

If these systems are all running Microsoft Windows, look into setting up Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection. This is a mechanism that will let you login to a remote system from your local system, running a replica of the remote desktop in a window or full screen on the local system.

If you do this, pay attention to permissions and firewall settings, because you don't want people from outside connecting to your system this way.

Have you done this? I played around with it once a while back and could never get it working, then had it explained to me that Remote Desktop won't work for transmitting OpenGL graphics such as SL. But perhaps that's not correct and I was doing something wrong, or maybe it depends on video card support to work properly.

I don't need that feature myself any more, but it would be a nice thing to have documented on the forums here if it can be done.

_____________________

Designer of sensual, tasteful couple's animations - for residents who take their leisure time seriously.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Brownlee/203/110/109/

Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-09-2008 17:45

From: Anti Antonelli

then had it explained to me that Remote Desktop won't work for transmitting OpenGL graphics such as SL.

You are correct, Remote Desktop won't do that.
Besides, I was wondering if the UI elements alone would be transmittable. I don't need the entire screen since I'm still using SL on the big screen. What I'm interested seeing on the remote screen is things like the chat, inventory, and other text-heavy windows. Those don't need a lot of graphics power to show, and one of my lesser machines that are connected to a monitor would be suitable for this.

So to clarify my desires:
Primary client computer----
-- Connects to SL in the manner of everyone else using the client.
-- The client opens up a communication port to transmit UI info to the Remote screen
Remote screen computer----
-- Opens the communication port to the Primary client computer.
-- Uses said communication port's information to draw the UI elements on its' screen as if it were the Primary client, except it's not running the SL client itself.
-- No interaction (via keyboard or mouse) will be needed, since it is just a relay for information on what's going on on the Primary client computer.

Does this make any more sense?

Void Singer

Int vSelf = Sing(void);

Join date: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 6,973

11-09-2008 19:16

dual monitors? generally a good option, and tv out works too.

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Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-09-2008 20:59

From: Void Singer

dual monitors? generally a good option, and tv out works too.

Currently the Media Center PC Is connected to the HDTV, which supports component input but the PC doesn't. So it's using SVideo, which is a lot worse and makes the text fuzzy.
Attaching an actual monitor would totally mess up the configuration in regards to which is primary and wouldn't match the setup very well (it's in the living room and I'm not playing SL all the time).

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

11-09-2008 23:08

Have you tried changing the chat font size?

Preferences / Text Chat / Chat Font Size can be set to Large (or perhaps Huge, I'm looking at a non-LL viewer at the moment).

Also, in Debug Settings, you can change the size of the Huge text, along with a number of other font size properties. FontSizeHuge, FontSizeMedium, FontSizeSmall, and FontSizeMonospace.

What you are asking for sounds to me like it could be done but would probably require professional grade programming to do unless someone just felt like writing such a thing for the sheer joy of the challenge.

The program SLProxy let's you intercept all the messages sent between your viewer and LL's servers, which would allow the messages to be processed in C#, which I suppose would be a bit easier than modifying the viewer code, which is in C++.

I wouldn't get my hopes up on getting what you are asking for.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-10-2008 00:15

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

Have you tried changing the chat font size?

Changing the font size to the required value will result in a (ridiculously) large amount of screen estate needed to be used for any window and will render the game unplayable on my computer.

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

The program SLProxy let's you intercept all the messages sent between your viewer and LL's servers, which would allow the messages to be processed in C#, which I suppose would be a bit easier than modifying the viewer code, which is in C++.

I am capable of programming in VB.Net, which is cross-compatible with modules built in C# if I remember correctly. Where can I get the SLProxy? I think (with the required documentation) that I can implement what I need from this.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

11-11-2008 19:48

By the magic power of Google I present the SLProxy url: http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/SLProxy .
.

Look up libsecondlife and libopenmetaverse, join groups, mailing lists, etc. as desired.

You might want to hook up with the #libomv and #libomv-dev IRC channels.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-11-2008 20:12

Unfortunately, SLProxy does not seemed to be intended to interact with the main client program in regards to re-displaying the UI. I believe I can write up another chat-interceptor, but the client doesn't send information on window placement or other UI-related data to the server (what would be the point?), so I think I would need to build this directly into the client itself.
Therefore, (and I hesitate to ask this) does anyone know where I can obtain the source code for the Second Life Client in whole? If this is not readily available, then I fear my task has become insurmountable for one small-time programmer, as I would need to create hooks into the Second Life client (which, in my opinion would be dangerous) and would be based on cracking, which I dearly intend to avoid.

Although libopenmv can be used to create a severely limited kind of client, I intend on running the true client and bridge the screen contents (the part that isn't the display of the world) to another location.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

11-11-2008 21:27

By invoking the great search god Google, using the incantation

second life viewer source code

I find

http://secondlifegrid.net/technology-programs/virtual-world-open-source

That will lead you to the instructions on downloading the source code and compiling it.

The viewer is written in C++.

Good luck.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

Lindal Kidd

Dances With Noobs

Join date: 26 Jun 2007

Posts: 8,371

11-12-2008 07:30

Basic answer: No.

I've wanted this capability for a long time...I have dual monitors, and moving the chat and inventory windows off the main UI, like Photoshop pallettes, would be a wonderful way to unclutter.

Get another computer to run SL, or get another monitor, one that can display text as well as HD video.

_____________________

It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd

Tsaukpaetra Ragu

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2008

Posts: 6

11-12-2008 17:45

From: Lindal Kidd

moving the chat and inventory windows off the main UI, like Photoshop pallettes

Yes, this should be able to be accomplished using the methods I have in mind. I will need to create a wrapper function and ask the main client to open another socket, but as long as I am able to pass-through most of the UI library in an information format this should be do-able. My main concern is that I have little knowledge on creating and managing sockets, as well as creating a shared general callback for UI events (which I have even less experience in). I guess I'll need to enlist people who can help me do this, since that's the main part of what I will need to do to make this possible.
Not to mention I need to have it compile-able!

Zuleika Deere

Registered User

Join date: 8 Oct 2006

Posts: 77

11-13-2008 16:19

Perhaps a partial workaround:

Automatically log chat will save a .txt file in your default SL folder on your HD.
CTRL-P | Communication | Log chat

Save a log of IM on my computer does the same for IM.
CTRL-P | Communication | Save a log of IM on my computer

That way you can read both chat and IM in txtfiles.

It doesn't help you with all your text windows, but perhaps you can follow the most important ones this way by reading your text files on a different screen.

Remote UI capability?
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-09-2008 16:11 Greetings, I am new to SL, and am wondering of there is the capability to send the UI elements (such as the menubar or chat windows) to another screen on the desktop or (more preferably) another computer on the local network. My plight is this: The most powerful and capable machine in my home is my Media Center pc, which is connected to the pre-hdmi HDTV in my living room. The problem is that almost no text smaller than 20pt size is remotely readable! I thought about using a screen-streaming program to send a copy of the screen to another pc, which I would then be able to read the chat text etc. from while still enjoying the full-speed performance offered my my Media Center pc. This however failed, because the network would become so bogged down with the screen-streaming program trying to send video through the network that SL wouldn't be able to connect to the internet very well, not to mention the updates themselves were horribly out of date for the same reason. I believe it should be a simple thing to forward the basic elements on the screen to another pc, but I would need help. I propose that the client on the host PC would open a network port to send UI info through. The display-client would then authenticate itself using some simple method and receive information from it's host such as "create chat window at x,y" and "focus selection on main menu item 1" and "Append text to chat window 0: blahblahblah" Does anyone know if this can be done? I would really appreciate it because my current experiences in SL are at 3FPS with my second best computer and that's with all settings turned to minimum! My computers are all capable of displaying the UI fine, but when I get to anyplace that actually has objects and stuff (like any normal place in SL) they get bogged down trying to render them.
Kidd Krasner Registered User Join date: 1 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,938	11-09-2008 16:29 If these systems are all running Microsoft Windows, look into setting up Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection. This is a mechanism that will let you login to a remote system from your local system, running a replica of the remote desktop in a window or full screen on the local system. If you do this, pay attention to permissions and firewall settings, because you don't want people from outside connecting to your system this way.
Anti Antonelli Deranged Toymaker Join date: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,091	11-09-2008 16:43 From: Kidd Krasner If these systems are all running Microsoft Windows, look into setting up Microsoft's Remote Desktop Connection. This is a mechanism that will let you login to a remote system from your local system, running a replica of the remote desktop in a window or full screen on the local system. If you do this, pay attention to permissions and firewall settings, because you don't want people from outside connecting to your system this way. Have you done this? I played around with it once a while back and could never get it working, then had it explained to me that Remote Desktop won't work for transmitting OpenGL graphics such as SL. But perhaps that's not correct and I was doing something wrong, or maybe it depends on video card support to work properly. I don't need that feature myself any more, but it would be a nice thing to have documented on the forums here if it can be done. _____________________ Designer of sensual, tasteful couple's animations - for residents who take their leisure time seriously. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Brownlee/203/110/109/
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-09-2008 17:45 From: Anti Antonelli then had it explained to me that Remote Desktop won't work for transmitting OpenGL graphics such as SL. You are correct, Remote Desktop won't do that. Besides, I was wondering if the UI elements alone would be transmittable. I don't need the entire screen since I'm still using SL on the big screen. What I'm interested seeing on the remote screen is things like the chat, inventory, and other text-heavy windows. Those don't need a lot of graphics power to show, and one of my lesser machines that are connected to a monitor would be suitable for this. So to clarify my desires: Primary client computer---- -- Connects to SL in the manner of everyone else using the client. -- The client opens up a communication port to transmit UI info to the Remote screen Remote screen computer---- -- Opens the communication port to the Primary client computer. -- Uses said communication port's information to draw the UI elements on its' screen as if it were the Primary client, except it's not running the SL client itself. -- No interaction (via keyboard or mouse) will be needed, since it is just a relay for information on what's going on on the Primary client computer. Does this make any more sense?
Void Singer Int vSelf = Sing(void); Join date: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 6,973	11-09-2008 19:16 dual monitors? generally a good option, and tv out works too. _____________________ \| \| . "Cat-Like Typing Detected" \| . This post may contain errors in logic, spelling, and \| . grammar known to the SL populace to cause confusion \| \| - Please Use PHP tags when posting scripts/code, Thanks. \| - Can't See PHP or URL Tags Correctly? Check Out This Link... \| -
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-09-2008 20:59 From: Void Singer dual monitors? generally a good option, and tv out works too. Currently the Media Center PC Is connected to the HDTV, which supports component input but the PC doesn't. So it's using SVideo, which is a lot worse and makes the text fuzzy. Attaching an actual monitor would totally mess up the configuration in regards to which is primary and wouldn't match the setup very well (it's in the living room and I'm not playing SL all the time).
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	11-09-2008 23:08 Have you tried changing the chat font size? Preferences / Text Chat / Chat Font Size can be set to Large (or perhaps Huge, I'm looking at a non-LL viewer at the moment). Also, in Debug Settings, you can change the size of the Huge text, along with a number of other font size properties. FontSizeHuge, FontSizeMedium, FontSizeSmall, and FontSizeMonospace. What you are asking for sounds to me like it could be done but would probably require professional grade programming to do unless someone just felt like writing such a thing for the sheer joy of the challenge. The program SLProxy let's you intercept all the messages sent between your viewer and LL's servers, which would allow the messages to be processed in C#, which I suppose would be a bit easier than modifying the viewer code, which is in C++. I wouldn't get my hopes up on getting what you are asking for. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-10-2008 00:15 From: SuezanneC Baskerville Have you tried changing the chat font size? Changing the font size to the required value will result in a (ridiculously) large amount of screen estate needed to be used for any window and will render the game unplayable on my computer. From: SuezanneC Baskerville The program SLProxy let's you intercept all the messages sent between your viewer and LL's servers, which would allow the messages to be processed in C#, which I suppose would be a bit easier than modifying the viewer code, which is in C++. I am capable of programming in VB.Net, which is cross-compatible with modules built in C# if I remember correctly. Where can I get the SLProxy? I think (with the required documentation) that I can implement what I need from this.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	11-11-2008 19:48 By the magic power of Google I present the SLProxy url: http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/SLProxy . . Look up libsecondlife and libopenmetaverse, join groups, mailing lists, etc. as desired. You might want to hook up with the #libomv and #libomv-dev IRC channels. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-11-2008 20:12 Unfortunately, SLProxy does not seemed to be intended to interact with the main client program in regards to re-displaying the UI. I believe I can write up another chat-interceptor, but the client doesn't send information on window placement or other UI-related data to the server (what would be the point?), so I think I would need to build this directly into the client itself. Therefore, (and I hesitate to ask this) does anyone know where I can obtain the source code for the Second Life Client in whole? If this is not readily available, then I fear my task has become insurmountable for one small-time programmer, as I would need to create hooks into the Second Life client (which, in my opinion would be dangerous) and would be based on cracking, which I dearly intend to avoid. Although libopenmv can be used to create a severely limited kind of client, I intend on running the true client and bridge the screen contents (the part that isn't the display of the world) to another location.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	11-11-2008 21:27 By invoking the great search god Google, using the incantation second life viewer source code I find http://secondlifegrid.net/technology-programs/virtual-world-open-source That will lead you to the instructions on downloading the source code and compiling it. The viewer is written in C++. Good luck. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Lindal Kidd Dances With Noobs Join date: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 8,371	11-12-2008 07:30 Basic answer: No. I've wanted this capability for a long time...I have dual monitors, and moving the chat and inventory windows off the main UI, like Photoshop pallettes, would be a wonderful way to unclutter. Get another computer to run SL, or get another monitor, one that can display text as well as HD video. _____________________ It's still My World and My Imagination! So there. Lindal Kidd
Tsaukpaetra Ragu Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2008 Posts: 6	11-12-2008 17:45 From: Lindal Kidd moving the chat and inventory windows off the main UI, like Photoshop pallettes Yes, this should be able to be accomplished using the methods I have in mind. I will need to create a wrapper function and ask the main client to open another socket, but as long as I am able to pass-through most of the UI library in an information format this should be do-able. My main concern is that I have little knowledge on creating and managing sockets, as well as creating a shared general callback for UI events (which I have even less experience in). I guess I'll need to enlist people who can help me do this, since that's the main part of what I will need to do to make this possible. Not to mention I need to have it compile-able!
Zuleika Deere Registered User Join date: 8 Oct 2006 Posts: 77	11-13-2008 16:19 Perhaps a partial workaround: Automatically log chat will save a .txt file in your default SL folder on your HD. CTRL-P \| Communication \| Log chat Save a log of IM on my computer does the same for IM. CTRL-P \| Communication \| Save a log of IM on my computer That way you can read both chat and IM in txtfiles. It doesn't help you with all your text windows, but perhaps you can follow the most important ones this way by reading your text files on a different screen.

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Remote UI capability?