Do you need to spend money to verify your account?

In Second Life real laws apply regards to IP and copyright, trademark theft etc.

With a sharp increase in copyright theft associated with " No Payment Info Used " account types we are considering banning these types of accounts as for all intents and purposes these are John Do's and from a legal stand point they can go about SL doing what they want without any real consiquences.

The question is, do they need to upgrade their account to verify it with Paypal?

My understanding is all they need is a bank ATM card ( debit cards we call them in the UK ) and a paypal account.

I dont have a credit card for example but I have a verified Paypal account.

What do people need to do to change their account to a Payment Info Used/Supplied?

As a business that depends on the DMCA process to protect the growing amount of texture artists both in world and outside such as 3DTotal.com we have been asked to ensure our customers are verified.

IMHO I think everyone should WANT to be varified. Having a No Payment on Account is the same as having no real world ID on them. Why should SL be any different?
Their RL details remain private unless we are forced to seek a court order with LL to release their details for legal reasons.

If anyone can explain exactly how this works I would be grateful.

Thanks

You need to spend money to have the "payment info used" status of course. And that is the problem, a lot of people cannot use it. Debit cards are not common in Germany, for instance. And I know a bunch of people personally who do not own a regular credit card because... well, they're poor and they don't get one. Without a CC, Paypal Germany cannot verify the account to that extent SL requires, so no chance of using Paypal, too.

IMO, you're killing a lot of your customer base, too, with that move.

Try it out for two weeks and see how much it affects your bottom line.

I am in agreement here, try it and see, as for instance i have a NPIOF alt but that alt spends money in game. I think trying to tar all NPIOF with the same brush is not a smart business move at the end of the day if someone is going to steal yours or anyones else's textures etc. they will do it whatever you try and do imho

there's an interesting assumption in there... that everyone in the real world wants to carry ID around all the time... uhm... why? personally I find them to be annoyances used only to reduce a person to a number, or an excuse to be nosy and suspicious of others... :hrug::

payment info on file, just means that someone typed in something that resembles a valid payment method... really don't have to do much to get it

payment info used, means just that, it got used for some payment or purchase, whether it be premium fees, lindex transactions, or private sim payments.

Thats an interesting point there as someone could use a throwaway credit card to get around it so theoretically payment info doesn't mean a thing in reality.

There is quite a lot of places in the world where throwaway credit cards don't exist ...

I understand that but was thinking they do make a mockery of validation where they are available

From what I understood, PIOF seems not to exist anymore. Either you have NPIOF, or you have Payment Info Used. At least, it has been that way a few months ago.

What I would do is watermark the vendor textures so those cannot be stolen, and that is all. Blocking access for NPIOF avatars could cost your business dearly, and the question is if you want to take that risk.

As a matter of fact, I would never shop again in a shop that blocks my access based on ym payment info. While blocked, of course I cannot shop, but after I would get my PIOF status I would not want to shop. If my money was not good enough today, it will not be good enough tomorrow either.

Seconds this. I felt this way from the day they started putting payment status in the profile.

since I dropped to basic in SL and removed my CC info it will still say PIOF but its not, so requiring it isnt true. But paranoia has always been a part of SL.

Being the first large business to do this would be a big PR problem, I think. Unless you could band together with a whole bunch of the top businesses to "flip the switch" simultaneously--and with very public notice about it--I think this step would have "fail" writ large all over it.

Assembling such a coalition would be difficult enough, but given the limited effectiveness of the PIOF verification for achieving the intended outcome, it seems hopeless.

The underlying problem is very real, however; it's not like RL "identity cards" at all, which exist to associate an identity with a single hunk of meatware. The problem in SL is that the accounts--the entities one may wish to identify--can proliferate without limit or cost. It's like trying to issue Social Security cards to spam. Unfortunately, neither PIOF nor PIU is good enough to make much difference to the problem.

Because SL isn't the Real World.

There is no functional "Payment Info on File" status any more. Just placing your info on the website does not change your in-world status to "Payment Info on File", even though it is supposed to. That function has been broken for well over a year now, and LL isn't bothering to fix it.

An NPIOF account must spend at least $2.50 USD buying L$ on Lindex to change from an in-world indication of "No Payment Info on File" to "Payment Info Used". After that, they never need to spend any real money again. I have tested this repeatedly with alts.

Lillybeth - I have purchased many of your textures as the need arose, and yes, I have payment info on file.

However, I also have alts that spend a ton of money inworld (that they receive from me), despite being NPIOF - and if they wanted to shop at TRU, I guess they'd be SOL if you move forward with this plan. While none of them have currently indicated a desire to build, they're fickle little things and that could change at any moment.

oh the sweet irony

People also don't always buy money from the LindeX, therefore won't always have payment info registered. XStreet (SLX) is the main L$ exchange that comes to mind, but there are many others listed on the Risk API. People will often buy from those instead of registering payment info with Linden Lab, so there's no guarantee that you won't be locking out hundreds of potential customers by switching to 'verified payment info only' sales methods.

I have a friend who runs a successful business in SL who has NPIOF. He spends most of the money he makes in SL expanding his business, landholdings and builds. His partner owns the land to keep the tier cost as low as possible. He finds it irratating to say the least, that he can't spend his money at some places where he is denied access.

I see from the texture I just received through TRU group notices that this is going ahead regardless: 'As of 17th Dec 2008 this store will no longer accept "No Payment on File" account types'.

Can't help but think you could be shooting yourselves in the foot going it alone with this, but obviously it's your decision, Lillybeth.

I'm just repeating others, but Curtis Dresler is the main account that built the parcels and occasionally, especially during lag periods, can take a chunk out of a building without really trying (the 'Take' choice IMO should be in the third layer). So Harry Dresler is the one I use when I'm not building. They won't permit the use of my Paypal account on my alt (I've killed off a couple of avs from the past and they seem to feel I've used it too much) and I had a credit card (back in the days of that weird software vendor doing the credit cards) stolen that was only used for LL. So, no, I won't give them another credit card, Curtis Dresler does all the interworld transactions, and you won't see me in your shop, I guess...

missed the change up.. that's kind of annoying


watermarks, visible or not, do not prevent theft, they only make copyright suits pursuable, assuming you catch the thief.


true, it could result in a massive burn off of clients, and the annoyance factor could drive business elsewhere, but there's also the blindly clicking crowd that doesn't care about one more hoop to jump through, and new customers that have never known anything else... overall I'd have to go with Qie's assesment though

PS this is why my credit rating sucks... I prefer paying cash for everything, cuts out middle men taking a slice, so no increase in base costs...

I have been one of the (No Payment Info On File) SL people sense december 2006, because this current av wasnt intended to be my main av, i started playing monthes earlier, and the first time my account was cancelled without me doing it, i asked LL for help but i got some smartass replys i was PO's the second av, well one day i decided to create this current av just to use as a test of sort son someone, the next day i tryed to log back into my other account and it said my password was wrong, i forgot the email so no use loo.

Well i played with this now main av sense then, and well you know the story about alts and account info lol, I do not have a credit card, never have. I also do not have an bank account. I have damn good reason. No im not a child im 23, ive always lived at home with my mom until earlier this year and well shes always payed things for me( disability prevented me from working)( i did have a small income but very little), well we had a fallen out and i moved in with my bf, well getting payment info would be impossible. sorry for ranting lol. If LL had a way i could change my info i registered with for this av i would, so i can verify my account atleast.

So you earn every L inworld, or have someone else buy L for you? Or do you just freebie hunt?

i have always earned all of my money in world and freebie hunt. But now im not able to put those kind of hours into Sl anymore, so i dont earn money now, i just get freebies. Im only in SL now to take photos for editing and posting on blogs and photo sharing sites and such.

I don't know where you live, but I don't have people demanding my papers all the time.

I have payment info online, but my brother does not since I send him any L$ he needs. Does that make him one of those dirty thieves?

Anyway, I will no longer be shopping at your business, nor from any of your clients. I have informed our group about what is going on and we have all decided that we couldn't justify shopping at a place that had such a biased attitude toward its customers. I myself spend about $L1000/week on textures. I had a few at your business I was planning on buying. I guess this is great news for the other stores that I will be shopping at now.