Does Madoff Remind You Of Ginko?
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
Join date: 6 Apr 2006
Posts: 865
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12-17-2008 16:38
For Investors, Trust Lost, and Money Too http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13investors.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink$50 billion at stake after Wall St broker Bernard Madoff is arrested over ‘world’s biggest swindle’ http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5333901.eceFrom: nyt “It seems like a huge over-allocation, I know,” Mr. Englebardt said. “But remember, they had started out small and invested over 5 years, 15 years, 30 years — and every year they got a great return, and they could always take money out without ever having a problem.”
As that track record lengthened, his relatives gradually entrusted more of their savings to Mr. Madoff, he said. “I suspect that is what has happened across the board,” he added. “People came to trust him so much that, eventually, they trusted him with everything.” I'm reminded of a quote, published before Ginko collapsed. I was unable to track it down because I think it was pre-2007. It basically said "Some people say that Ginko is a pyramid scheme. It's been around since 2004 and never missed a withdrawl. That's one long-running pyramid scheme!" As if sustained good returns is an indicator of investment safety. Anyway, this week's news reminded me of that quote. It's a shame I can't find it. Anyway, through looking, I found this one. What a bewt. /130/71/51425/3.html#post549524From: Nicholas Portocarrero We are not a ponzi scheme. I suppose skepticism is healthy, but you have no basis for this accusation. It's nothing but your personal theory and fortunately, it's incorrect.
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Gordon Wendt
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12-17-2008 16:40
Odd that you post this now, I just brought Ginko up in another thread. The funny thing is Ginko was such a successful ponzi scheme not only were many of the "investors" in denial but even those that recognized that it was probably a ponzi scheme defended it as a well run ponzi scheme that wouldn't collapse. Hopefully they were the ones who lost the most money.
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
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12-17-2008 16:47
Yes and no. Madoff cooked the books, Nicholas gave you the finger for asking.
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
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12-17-2008 16:48
From: Cristalle Karami Yes and no. Madoff cooked the books, Nicholas gave you the finger for asking. Good point!
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Alazarin Mondrian
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12-17-2008 16:49
From: Adz Childs Does Madoff Remind You Of Ginko? Yes.
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Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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12-17-2008 16:52
you would have to be mad to trust anyone with a name like that
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
Join date: 6 Apr 2006
Posts: 865
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12-17-2008 16:55
From: Gordon Wendt Odd that you post this now, I just brought Ginko up in another thread. The funny thing is Ginko was such a successful ponzi scheme not only were many of the "investors" in denial but even those that recognized that it was probably a ponzi scheme defended it as a well run ponzi scheme that wouldn't collapse. Hopefully they were the ones who lost the most money. Amazing, isn't it? I had never heard of Madoff until this week, but I guess he had been running the investment as a pyramid scheme since at least before 2005. Some people close to Madoff, and some investors who asked the right questions did have their suspicions. The SEC did not investigate, and Madoff had people banging down the door to get his magical "consistent returns" the whole time. In other words, there wasn't much of a public discussion about whether or not the whole thing was a pyramid scheme. On the other hand, the very first thing I read about Ginko after joining SL in 2006 was an announcement that Anshe Chung declared war on Ginko, where she stated she thought it was a massive pyramid scheme. Multiple threads popped up here in this forum, always posing a question, "Is this whole thing an pyramid scheme?" or something to that effect. IIRC, Ginko continued for over a year even after that!!!
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Dilbert Dilweg
Loading....
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 500
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12-17-2008 17:03
What I find funny is Madoff is out on $10 million bail (stolen funds)
And sitting at home in a 7 million dollar home (Stolen Funds) awaiting trial..
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Gordon Wendt
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12-17-2008 17:04
Adz, I have quite a few things that I'd like to say about Ansche Chung but even I have a limit to how far I'll push the rules on the forums and if I said what I wanted I'd most definitely be banned.
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Cappy Frantisek
Open Source is the Devil!
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
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12-17-2008 17:35
two words......
Michael Milken
"After he was sent to prison on finance-related charges, his detractors cited him as the epitome of Wall Street greed during the 1980s, and nicknamed him the Junk Bond King."
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Osprey Therian
I want capslocklock
Join date: 6 Jul 2004
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12-17-2008 17:40
I just went back and reread some of NPs posts - it was sort of funny as it was like a time-lapse ponzi jamboree. It was always absolutely clear that that's what it was, and I think it's that way with most if not all ponzi schemes. People suspend their good judgement for some reason.
I remember a friend say, "Have you heard about blah-blah - it works like ~this~" and me saying, "That's a pyramid scheme." "Oh, no," she said. I think it's a little glimmer of - what, greed? something else? - that blinds people. But that's not an excuse.
I remember thinking at the time that if someone needed to learn that lesson and learned it here in SL rather than RL that they were getting something for their money after all.
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Gordon Wendt
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12-17-2008 17:42
From: Cappy Frantisek two words......
Michael Milken
"After he was sent to prison on finance-related charges, his detractors cited him as the epitome of Wall Street greed during the 1980s, and nicknamed him the Junk Bond King." "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good." -Gordon Gekko
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
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12-17-2008 18:02
From: Osprey Therian
I remember thinking at the time that if someone needed to learn that lesson and learned it here in SL rather than RL that they were getting something for their money after all.
Brilliant thought. We can only hope that the Ginko scam helped at least one person question where they were investing their RL money. To the OP, yes it reminds me of Ginko. In fact, when talking about the situation w/ RL friends who are unfamiliar w/ Ponzi schemes, I describe what happened in SL with Ginko. |
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Dakota Tebaldi
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12-17-2008 18:38
From: Cristalle Karami Yes and no. Madoff cooked the books, Nicholas gave you the finger for asking. HA! Like Jeffrey Skilling.
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Osprey Therian
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Join date: 6 Jul 2004
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12-17-2008 18:40
Heh - teh chilluns are taking over teh forumz zomg1!!11!!
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Ralph Doctorow
Registered User
Join date: 16 Oct 2005
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12-17-2008 19:53
Yeah, it's exactly like Lehman Bros....
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
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12-17-2008 20:18
From: Osprey Therian Heh - teh chilluns are taking over teh forumz zomg1!!11!! Long after everyone else gets bored of SL®, we'll still be here, playing on teh playgrounds, eating never-ending ice cream cones.
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
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12-17-2008 20:29
From: Adz Childs Amazing, isn't it?
I had never heard of Madoff until this week, but I guess he had been running the investment as a pyramid scheme since at least before 2005. Some people close to Madoff, and some investors who asked the right questions did have their suspicions. The SEC did not investigate, and Madoff had people banging down the door to get his magical "consistent returns" the whole time. In other words, there wasn't much of a public discussion about whether or not the whole thing was a pyramid scheme. NPR (along with everybody else but I was listening to NPR) was talking about Madoff today. They had a great audio of him giving some talk a few years ago about how the SEC regulations were so tight and how it was virtually impossible to pull scams any more. /me thinks we've only seen the tip of this iceberg. People were _begging_ the SEC to investigate him for years.. |
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Koffeekid Smalls
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12-17-2008 21:05
*climbs on top of the pyramid and takes a nap*
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Marianne McCann
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12-17-2008 21:10
From: Osprey Therian Heh - teh chilluns are taking over teh forumz zomg1!!11!! Nooooooo!
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Jezebella Desmoulins
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Join date: 4 Nov 2005
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12-18-2008 04:26
What were people expecting by investing in the Madoff Fund? He "made off" with all their money. The books were cooked, but at least there was truth in naming.
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
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12-18-2008 07:05
1 user groaned: Adz Childs
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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12-18-2008 07:13
Here's another for you, Adz. Was anyone else worried when Hank Paulson named Neel Kashkari as the Bailout Guru? I immediately foresaw him carry away our cash. So far, it looks like I was right.
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
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12-18-2008 08:07
All we need now is for Madoff to hire for his defense the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
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12-18-2008 09:25
From: Dekka Raymaker you would have to be mad to trust anyone with a name like that I once new a sales rep named O.B. Ware, who had the highest sales in the store. *shrugs* I have learned that the average person is not sane, in spite what their mental health care specialist might say  But did Madoff make me think of Ginko? Yep.
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