Invasion of Privacy on your own land,,

& Newbies be warned!
I have been made aware of a,,, cough, "SO CALLED" security system a land owner in my sim has which I was told records ALL chat in the sim on other's land as well their own.
I am wondering how other's feel about this invasion of personal privacy without consent, as well the need, being they have not paid or own my land or monthly fees to be recording chat off of it. I resent my friends and customers chat being recorded by who knows what or whom, as well as my own chat. I know in my state it is against the law to record a conversation without the one being recorded knowing it is happening. So how do you feel about it forum friends, and what is the need here for such invasion by others on my land or your's?

Many Blessings in SL & RL

What you describe is a TOS violation as well.

What is this system? More info would be appreciated.

Trella, the chat recorder devices are widely used in SL for various reasons. They are sold under the pre-text of alot of things from "Visitor Counters" to "Spy Gadgets". They are so widely use in fact that if you speak in open chat you should expect it to be recorded by a device almost anywhere in SL.
I am not a user of these devices. I just think you will find out here that they are very widely used for a wide range of reasons.

Whatever it is has to be within 20 m of people at any given place. That's a lot of prims.

And not just open chat - IMs are trivial to listen to / record.

If you're certain that there are no AVs within the aforementioned 20m perimeter *and* you've swept for any running scripts within the same space, you should be OK...

There's always encryption.....

Back when I had land I bought a visitor counter just to see if anyone was coming around and enjoying my build. ( Yes, a few of us WANT people on our land.) To my horror the thing was recording text conversation as well, and not just on my land but on half the sim!

When I looked to see its contents I expected a few names. What I got was a screen full of stuff that was clearly none of my business. That was the default setting of this monstrosity. When I learned how to shut off the chat logging and reduce the perimeter to 20 meters or so, it told what I really needed to know - that scarcely anyone was coming on my land at all. I abandoned that infernal gadget and shortly after that, my land as well.

So yes, I think logging chat is evil IF there doesn't appear to be anyone around. People should have reasonable expectation of privacy in their chatting. If I'm standing in a public place, I don't feel that logging chat is a privacy issue, though. At one time I logged to learn more about SL. I mean if I'm standing there, people are aware of me and won't say private stuff in public chat. But a hidden machine .. that's insidious and intrusive.

But this was a lesson to me. Anything you say in chat can be recorded. Chat on the internet is recorded somewhere for all of time. . . --KC

Shadyl yes, but not a TOS violation if it's listening to channel 0 chat unless the person intends to distribute the chat I don't think.

Not unless you're a participant in the IM. Or have an unimaginably well-placed packet sniffer on the net.

...well, now that you mention it...

/me turns off the packet sniffer on LL's network

What do I think about these devices? They suck.

What do I think about similar devices that track where you go? They suck.

This is the internet though. You always need to remember that privacy is usually not very private. We've seen many people in very high positions get themselves into a lot of trouble by making that assumption.

Plain and simple. Privacy in SL and privacy on the internet...does not exist.

Hhmm. You may be right. Or not. Would LL consider it a TOS violation if you're listening in on the chat channel from outside the chat range. I shold think they would. In fact, that is what putting a "bug" on someone does - enable you to listen in on chat you normally wouldn't/shouldn't be able to.

Well yes if your bugging someone with a following device then it probably violates the privacy and harassment parts of the TOS and the CS but if it's static on your land then people obviously don't have any reason to expect privacy within 20m, smart people don't expect privacy period unless they use IM, and even then there are several JIRA issues about it glitching and sending messages to a bunch of random people and/or the person's groups.

It clearly violates Community Standards, section 4:



Too lazy to go through the TOS right now.

You don't need encryption when you have a Neko translator.

I've just bought one where you type in, say:

/neko look that guy over there has a really big nose

and it comes out:

Damien Walworth: yowl yowl mewl grrrl yowl purr mewl

It's very cool, and I defy any spy to decode it.






Of course, one's friends can't understand it either, but I think everyone will agree that's a minor issue.

Remote I think is the key word (if I owned land which I don't) theoretically covered an entire parcel with 1x1 orbs each with a listen script listening on channel 0 I would A) be violating the TOS for using a ridiculous amount of sim resources, and B) still not violating the TOS because it isn't remote.

I think in this case "remotely" just means "somewhere your avatar is not", kind of a clumsy way of differentiating between using a scripted device and just standing there listening in the usual way.

Of course I could be wrong. I'm reading it in the most restrictive way, since I consider the use of listening/chat relaying devices (even on one's own land) distasteful and even unethical unless prior notice is given. Not that I am laboring under the illusion that they aren't all over anyway :/

Yeah? Prove it. Monitor my IM traffic tonight and send me a transcript.

Yes, very cool.

yes, there is no LSL function that gives access to IMs. They are about as secure as one can get in SL. Note I say *IN* SL, because sure, you could intercept internet traffic to get it. But if you are doing that, you're probably capable of doing something far worse than that.