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Does anyone understand the new search?

Lion Ewry
Registered User
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 88
11-18-2007 10:13
Hi!

I want to be ready for the new search. Does anybody understand what that really means?

If I understand what I have read it will focus in on individual items we sell on SL--if I am right about that, how will the key words work?

Will it search against the NAMES of the items or words in the description of them?

I hate the current traffic system with a passion. Does it mean that this stuipid thing is finally going to go away?
Annabelle Babii
Unholier than thou
Join date: 2 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,797
11-18-2007 10:31
From: Lion Ewry
Hi!

I want to be ready for the new search. Does anybody understand what that really means?

If I understand what I have read it will focus in on individual items we sell on SL--if I am right about that, how will the key words work?

No one really understands it - including the Lindens, I think.
From: Lion Ewry


Will it search against the NAMES of the items or words in the description of them?

I hate the current traffic system with a passion. Does it mean that this stuipid thing is finally going to go away?


Probably not.
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
11-18-2007 11:46
from the Knowledge Base:
From: someone
Knowledge Base

Second Life Info > Knowledge Base > Controls and Getting Around >
New Search FAQ


This article answers some frequently-asked questions about the new search functionality being launched in Second Life.

1. Now what's new?

We've made some improvements to inworld searches for Second Life: You're now able to search more and get better results.

2. How long will this new search be in the release candidate?

We're hoping to have the new search in the release candidate for at least 2-3 weeks while we iterate and fix any additional bugs found during the process before pushing a final version of the client, which will include the new search.

3. How will my search experience change?

There's a new All tab in the Search window. Using this tab, it'll be easier to find relevant results when you're searching for land parcels, Resident profiles, groups, events, and individual objects marked for inclusion that are present on public parcels.

4. What happens to old search?

Nothing. The old search functionality is still present as the All (old) tab in the Search window; it's the very last one.

5. What happens to Classifieds?

Nothing. The Classified tab is unchanged. As an additional bonus, however, Classified ads relevant to your searches will be displayed alongside search results in the new All tab.

6. I'm worried about privacy.

You have the ability to choose what's included in the new search. For the initial population of the search, we made some assumptions for the default settings of each type of result (explained below). You're able to change the default after it's been set, although it may be between 1-3 days for changes to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we're not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.

Be aware that the new search results will be available to the public; anyone with a web browser can view them from the proper search page. The search results may also be picked up by other external search engines such as Yahoo and Google, although we're not explicitly asking search engines to crawl them at this time. It's important to remember that this information is not tied to your real life identity and is the same information that anybody could see with a free Second Life account.
Land Parcels

Land parcels will default to "not being searched", just as it does now. All land parcels currently included in the "Places" search will be included. In order to be included in the Search results, you will need to check the Show in Search > Places checkbox in the About Land window's Options tab. (Please note: The L$30 charge per week to be included in search is still in place for land parcels.)
Groups

Previously there were two check boxes in regards to groups and privacy: Publish listing on the web and Show in groups list. This is being simplified to include one box in the group settings called Show in Search which will make the group public. If a group was previously set to Show in groups list it will be included by default in the new search. The Publish listing on the web checkbox will be deprecated and will not be used to determine inclusion in the new search.
Resident Profiles

The new search will allow people to search profiles for information about particular Residents and will include all of the information contained in your profile. All profiles are included by default, but if you want to only have a limited profile available, simply uncheck the box next to “Show in Search”. The limited profile includes your avatar's name, born on date and account type.

If you include your complete profile in the search, others will be able to search the things you type into your About box in your 2nd Life tab, your favorite places from your Picks tab, and your profile picture!

Objects

Currently it is not possible to search for individual objects via the Second Life Search, but with this new version, all objects marked as “for sale” will be defaulted to their Show in Search checkbox on and will be listed in search. Any objects which are not set for sale will default to having the Show in Search checkbox not selected. We're also going to allow not-for-sale objects to be included in search results, but you will need to explicitly check the Show in Search box.

Events

All events will be included in the new search. You will also be able to search on any information within the event details.

7. What's included in the new All tab of the Search window?

Land parcels
Resident profiles
Groups
Events
Individual objects
Articles in the Second Life Wiki

8. This is going to be available on the web?

New search results will be available to the public; anyone with a web browser can view them from the proper search page. The search results may also be picked up by other external search engines such as Yahoo and Google, although we're not explicitly asking search engines to crawl them at this time. It's important to remember that this information is not tied to your real life identity and is the same information that anybody could see with a free Second Life account.

9. How are you working with Google on this?

We're not. We bought the engine and the technology to run these searches from Google, but Google themselves aren't actually indexing Second Life; we are.

10. Will traffic play any role in the new search rankings?

High traffic somewhat increases the relevance of search results, because we provide inbound links from traffic pages with top-10, top-20, top-1000, etc. places. The place listings do not sort strictly by traffic, however. It's only one of many factors considered by the search appliance.

11. How was search ranking previously determined?

In the old search, it depended on the category. Places were sorted in descending order by traffic, Classifieds were sorted in descending order by price, and so on.

12. Will inworld business owners be subject to a periodic re-shuffling of search criteria?

We may try to improve relevance in the future by creating different inbound links to the page.

13. Are objects which are on "private land" and set for sale going to be included in search?

If your parcel is set not to show in search, your objects will not be listed.

If your parcel is set to show in search, your for-sale objects will be listed.

14. Won't objects with the default name "object" cloud the results?

All objects with the default name of "Object" will not be included in the new search.

15.What about things inside a Vendor?

Vendor kiosks will have to be explicitly set to Show in Search, the same as any other object to be included in search. From the server's perspective, a vendor is just a scripted object -- it doesn't really know that the object is selling something. Likewise, it won't be possible to search inside the vendor, although you could use the name and/or description of the vendor object to list keywords describing what's inside it.

16. Will people be able to directly teleport anywhere, regardless of whatever privacy setup a landowner might have?

When someone clicks the Teleport button they will be routed to the parcel's default landing point. The new search simply lists the items set for sale on the parcel, thereby allowing people to find things easier. Also, only parcels which have been specifically included in search will be listed.

17. Are there Boolean or other advanced search techniques available with the new Search?

Yes. The new Second Life Search supports Boolean logic, keyword searching and phrase searching.

"Keyword searching" refers to a search type in which you enter terms representing the concepts you wish to retrieve. Boolean operators are not used.

"Boolean logic" refers to a search in which symbols or words are used to represent Boolean logical operators. When used in constructing a search expression, it can be very useful in specifying exactly what information you want.

"Phrase Searching" refers to when you’re looking for results that include an exact phrase. In this case, just put quotation marks around your search terms.

Nowadays, most search engines, including the new Second Life search, automatically returns search results that include all of your search terms. There is no need to include AND between them.

Examples of search usage:

You’re looking for cat avatars
Boolean logic: AND
Search: cat avatars

You’re looking for live music, but not Jazz
Boolean logic: NOT
Search: live music –jazz

You’re looking for cats or dogs
Boolean logic: OR
Search: cats OR dogs

You’re looking for a particular person named “Jane Avatar”
Logic: phrase searching
Search: “Jane Avatar”

18. Has searching been fixed so that it no longer searches for partial words?

Yes. The old search used to return results like "constable" if you entered "table." That no longer happens.

19. Will it still be possible to sort search results alphabetically?

No, but the search results should be more helpful and relevant.

20. Will classifieds that have paid more for inclusion always appear at the top of results?

The classified ads displayed alongside search results are sorted by price paid, exactly as if you had typed the search query into the existing Classified tab.

The main search results list will occasionally return classifieds. The price paid is a minor factor in the relevance for those results.

21. Will articles in the Second Life Knowledge Base be returned in the results?

Not right now, but we hope to include them in the future!

22. When does the new search get updated?

The static HTML pages on world.secondlife.com update twice daily at 3 AM and 3 PM Pacific time. It may take 1-3 days for those updates to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we're not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
11-19-2007 06:22
One important thing to remember right now is that the Lindens haven't fully populated the database that the new Search uses. There are a lot of people and businesses that it is still incapable of finding. To my mind, this does not bode well for the future accuracy or maintainability of the new search.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Max Pitre
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 370
11-19-2007 07:17
I don't see why there is a "new" search when the old one isn't broke.
I really don't like the All tab, which I use the most, only showing 10 places at a time and I really don't care what something cost unless I see it first anyway so why add that "feature". It's like buying a home from a vendor...pointless and stupid.
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
11-19-2007 08:58
Max, the old search system has a LOT of room for improvement, and the new system does attempt to address some of that. For example, th new search will allow boolean modifiers, like "Leopard -cat" to find all matches that include "Leopard" but which do *not* include the word "Cat".
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Kahiro Watanabe
Registered User
Join date: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 572
12-08-2007 09:09
Some things that got my attention in that FAQ:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You have the ability to choose what's included in the new search. For the initial population of the search, we made some assumptions for the default settings of each type of result (explained below). You're able to change the default after it's been set, ******although it may be between 1-3 days for changes to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we're not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.*******""
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's not good at all!!!, for example you enable an object to appear in search, you have two wait from 1 to three days, or more?:

"....Due to the nature of search indexing, we're not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"10. Will traffic play any role in the new search rankings?

High traffic somewhat (?) increases the relevance of search results, because we provide inbound links from traffic pages with top-10, top-20, top-1000, etc. places. The place listings do not sort strictly by traffic, however. It's only one of many factors considered by the search appliance."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do they mean with "High traffic increase the relevance of search results.....somewhat"?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this FAQ gives more questions than answers, I hope they know what are they doing.
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
12-08-2007 09:18
From: Ceera Murakami
Max, the old search system has a LOT of room for improvement, and the new system does attempt to address some of that. For example, th new search will allow boolean modifiers, like "Leopard -cat" to find all matches that include "Leopard" but which do *not* include the word "Cat".
It's also closer to what people naturally, but don't really consciously, expect from search.

In the old search "cats meow" would only return results with that exact substring in it, in the new search it will hit on "cats", "cat", "cat's", "cat's meow", "cats that meow", "cat that meows" etc.
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
12-08-2007 09:54
From: Kahiro Watanabe
What do they mean with "High traffic increase the relevance of search results.....somewhat"?
*sighs* I had a whole response typed out and then my stupid puter ate it :(.

What they seem to do is create a list of *all* parcels listed in search across all of SL, sort it by traffic and cut it off at a certain point to make a "top xx" page (there's 12 of them apparantly):

http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.10.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.20.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.50.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.100.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.200.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.500.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.1000.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.2000.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.5000.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.10000.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.20000.html
http://world.secondlife.com/start/traffic.50000.html

So if you're #5 on the "most traffic in SL" list, you have 12 traffic webpages that reference you, giving you an extra of 12 inbound links, boosting your search ranking. If you're #2004 you get 4 extra inbound links. If you're not in there at all, no boost for you.

On the other hand, profile picks count as an inbound link as well (cue the armies of disposable alts who are logged on just to set a pick and then never to be seen again). Whether it counts as much as being on a "top" page is anyone's guess probably.

If you ever had (or have) a website, it'll make more sense than if you're still trying to look at search from an SL perspective because all places, classifieds, profile are just a collection of webpages now and searched the same way as you use Google to search the web.

(Disclaimer: the above is my guess on the whole search thing, not a summary of anything "official" :))
Dingthat Bellman
Stella's Mall
Join date: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 183
12-08-2007 12:39
I really don't understand the reasoning or rationale behind the change. I do know that since the introduction last week my visitor numbers have fallen yet we still have the same brilliant designers and shops. Either, everyone is out in RL shopping for Christmas or the new emphasis on 'Search All' without regard to how much was paid for an ad is having it's affect. I sense it's the latter as unless I specifically search for our mall I do not see any of the classifieds I have listed, even though I have 24,500 lindends worth listed.
. So, from Monday I get to invest my weekly 20,000 Lindens advertising budget elsewhere I guess.
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Illana Ireton
Registered User
Join date: 5 Sep 2007
Posts: 28
12-08-2007 13:13
From: Kahiro Watanabe
******although it may be between 1-3 days for changes to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we're not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.*******""
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's not good at all!!!, for example you enable an object to appear in search, you have two wait from 1 to three days, or more?:

I've had several new vendors come to my mall the past few weeks and none of their box items are showing up in new search. For me at least it's been a LOT longer than 1-3 days; at least two weeks, in fact. I'm curious how they collect their data... do they send bots out like the Sheep did? Because if it's simple database churning I'd think they really could index the grid once every couple of days.
Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
12-08-2007 13:22
It's badly broken, oh so much broken, I posted about it yesterday but everyone seems to have ignored it and at your own loss.

I have had 50+ sales today and with every sale I have had to reset the item sold to 'show in search' after every single purchase, I've literally been following customers around, after they buy somewhere I reset it to 'show in search'.

I made a JIRA report about permission going bad a couple of weeks ago, and tagged this BIG problem to it. If you want to have a good search result I suggest to go here and vote for it.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3431
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
12-08-2007 13:28
From what i can see...sales in Malls have dropped for me whilst my main shops have picked up. I have a number of Mall spots which traditionally I do well at (been there for 6 months or more)...they have fallen off the radar screen now in terms of actual sales.

This has to be worrying for mall owners if the New search penalises them in some way.
However the above occurance is being compensated by Main shop sales, so it kind of evens out......although in terms of net profit I could probably increase that a bit by not renting in the now non-performing Malls
Xi Taurog
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 71
12-08-2007 14:14
Puppet and I have been having problems with our items that are checked to be included in search - some of them keep coming unchecked. I'm pasting the text from my JIRA issue - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3755 - below:

My business partner and I are having a problem with the search checkboxes on our for sale items becoming unchecked. Certain items seem to constantly be reverting to having the search checkbox unchecked, and we keep having to change these items back. I've been trying to find a pattern to this, and here's the closest I can figure to replicate:

1. Set item for sale (copy of item, or contents of item, not original). Set checkbox in item properties to show in search.
2. Log off.
3. Another avatar buys the copy or contents of your item.
4. Search checkbox in item marked for sale becomes unchecked. When owner of for sale item comes back online, the search checkbox has to be set again.
5. When another avatar buys a copy of the item while the item seller is online, the search box stays checked. The unchecking only seems to happen when the item seller is offline. And it doesn't happen to all items - only some of them.

Since we sell a lot of $0 freebies, this happens a LOT. I'm not sure why it happens with some items more than others. We have both tried clearing the for sale/search checkboxes in the affected items and resetting them, and it still happens the next time we log out. We have even deleted the affected items and rezzed new ones to set for search and for sale, and the same problem still occurs. It is very frustrating to have to check our items every day to make sure they still have the search box checked.
Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
12-08-2007 15:07
From: Xi Taurog
Puppet and I have been having problems with our items that are checked to be included in search - some of them keep coming unchecked. I'm pasting the text from my JIRA issue - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3755


Yes it is exactly the same, I'll vote for your JIRA and also link it to mine.

I guessing most people like 99.99999% of them are unaware of this, and this could be the reason for sale loss, I keep updating mine daily and my sales are increasing.

Edit: God it just takes so long to get in to do it, exhausting business bug reporting

Edit 2: Nice, you already did it :)
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
12-08-2007 15:25
nope, do not understand it

since the new search though I have noticed an increase in traffic, but no change in sales (few to no sales)

I so need to think of something that ppl want, that is not already flooding the market LOL
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From: someone
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Bobbyb30 Zohari
SL Mentor Coach
Join date: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 466
12-08-2007 15:28
From: Dingthat Bellman
I really don't understand the reasoning or rationale behind the change. I do know that since the introduction last week my visitor numbers have fallen yet we still have the same brilliant designers and shops. Either, everyone is out in RL shopping for Christmas or the new emphasis on 'Search All' without regard to how much was paid for an ad is having it's affect. I sense it's the latter as unless I specifically search for our mall I do not see any of the classifieds I have listed, even though I have 24,500 lindends worth listed.
. So, from Monday I get to invest my weekly 20,000 Lindens advertising budget elsewhere I guess.


Yes, the new search does not heed how much was paid for ads and I suspect there will be major revenue lost both by LL and ad owners.
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Henry Grumiaux
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 142
12-08-2007 16:08
So, what about the pictures in the new search ? No Longer anymore ???

It's really bad....Visual comunication is a piece of professional advertising business..

It means that a nice picture can attact prospects ! But there is no longer picture with the results :( It's really bad...

A picture really can raises wishes to ppls...everybody knows that a picture can value much more that 1000 words !

The new search is uggly !
Henry Grumiaux
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 142
12-08-2007 16:12
A Simple question: I Sliced a land and checked the option "Show in Search"...

Well..it was 1 week ago..and not indexed yet :(

How long my land will appear on the search ?