Second Life Forums Archive - If your new chair doesn't work...

Qie Niangao

Coin-operated

Join date: 24 May 2006

Posts: 7,138

10-02-2007 04:04

Any script that positions the avatar after sitting is broken as of the 10/1 rolling restart. This only affects product versions introduced after SL release 1.13.4, and does not affect scripts that move unlinked poseballs (MLP, etc.). See

for details. [Admittedly, this isn't a question, but might save a few from being asked.]

Argent Asbrink

Registered User

Join date: 27 Jul 2007

Posts: 217

10-02-2007 04:46

Is there a Darwin award we could make for LL?

This was just another in a long line of moves that sit up and yell "I'm a moron!", in that big, friendly, retarded voice you hear at the Special Olympics.

Judging from the responses to the Jira...there are a number of folks a bit...irritated...at this.

Which, of course, means that LL will do nothing to correct the situation...

Dekka Raymaker

thinking very hard

Join date: 4 Feb 2007

Posts: 3,898

10-02-2007 04:48

Does this effect Prim Sitter?

_____________________

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

10-02-2007 05:20

This is because LL had the brilliant idea to outright stop llSetLinkPrimitiveParams from running on avatars instead of just disabling the bugged flag for avatars. I had a conversation with the Linden who implemented the "fix" but they were unmoved by my arguments to keep the functionality of PRIM_POSITION and PRIM_ROTATION.

Once again LL has chosen to use the colloquial mean of "fix" referring to the neutering of a dog.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Cherry Czervik

Came To Her Senses

Join date: 18 Feb 2006

Posts: 3,680

10-02-2007 05:26

Can we sit on your knee instead Qie?

(As ever, thank you for your knowledge sharing

)

Alicia Sautereau

if (!social) hide;

Join date: 20 Feb 2007

Posts: 3,125

10-02-2007 05:27

From: Strife Onizuka

This is because LL had the brilliant idea to outright stop llSetLinkPrimitiveParams from running on avatars instead of just disabling the bugged flag for avatars. I had a conversation with the Linden who implemented the "fix" but they were unmoved by my arguments to keep the functionality of PRIM_POSITION and PRIM_ROTATION.

Once again LL has chosen to use the colloquial mean of "fix" referring to the neutering of a dog.

lololololololololol

Argent Asbrink

Registered User

Join date: 27 Jul 2007

Posts: 217

10-02-2007 05:42

None of my prim sitter furniture seems to be affected. At least THAT wasn't borked by the Lindens...errr....yet.

Sally Silvera

live music maniac

Join date: 17 Feb 2007

Posts: 2,325

10-02-2007 06:07

Wow thanks for the warning. Sounds frightening. Can I add a question here, just cause.....

I know not a whole lot about scripts and such, but how does one know which stuff is affected other than trying it out? (Which given the state of the grid could be a whole challenge of its own it seems.) Because I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them.

_____________________

Nika Talaj

now you see her ...

Join date: 2 Jan 2007

Posts: 5,449

10-02-2007 06:21

/me sits happily on her ancient furniture and sends condolences flowers to all the creators who released new furniture in the last two weeks

Thanks Qie and Strife. Boo LL!

_____________________

.

To contact forum folks, join the inworld group "The Forum Cartel". New residents with questions about SL more than welcome! We has parties!

To contact forum scripters, join the inworld group "Scriptoratti" (thanks Void!). New scripter questions welcome!

Malachi Petunia

Gentle Miscreant

Join date: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,414

10-02-2007 06:34

From: someone

I know not a whole lot about scripts and such, but how does one know which stuff is affected other than trying it out? (Which given the state of the grid could be a whole challenge of its own it seems.) Because I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them.

That's the beauty of the whole system, it goes something like this:

1. LL puts a "beta" version of the client and server on the "beta" grid
2. LL invites their customers to test their software for them for free
3. Some customers, particularly those interested in scripts or textures dutifully test the software and report clearly documented, easily reproducible bug reports of the sort that most development engineers would kill for.
4. LL dutifully ignores the bug reports and at their option may close the bug report with a message saying "please refile this if it is still an issue after the release of the beta code
5. LL releases the "beta" code to the main grid
6. Now 100 people report the same bug as in step (3)
7. LL closes the new bug reports with "to be fixed in next release, resubmit if it is still broken", customers feel a great disturbance, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced

And people still ask me why I stopped playing for about 2 years and don't script any longer. But I'm not bitter about it.

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

10-02-2007 06:37

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-750

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Qie Niangao

Coin-operated

Join date: 24 May 2006

Posts: 7,138

10-02-2007 08:17

From: Malachi Petunia

1. LL puts a "beta" version of the client and server on the "beta" grid [...steps 2-7...]

Think we missed that step this time: AFAIK, the server release running in production now never made it to the beta grid... or if it did, it was without much fanfare, and aditi was inaccessible to mere mortals for several weeks before the release was put in production.

From: Sally Silvera

[...] I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them.

If they're "conventional" poseballs, it'll be no problem. If one can see the scripts inside and finds llSetLinkPrimitiveParams(), then the problem would occur. This is a pretty new functionality (or, rather, *was*) used in newer scripts to adjust avatar position after sitting on a linked set of prims, perhaps to compensate for different animations and/or or avatar sizes. Sorry about being confusing in mentioning "unlinked poseballs"--what I meant was that some products achieved similar functionality adjusting the position of unlinked poseballs; just linking a regular poseball to a regular piece of furniture isn't affected.

From: Dekka Raymaker

Does this effect Prim Sitter?

Probably not. There seems to be some confusion over in Scripting Tips about just which of the several "sit target positioner" script versions are affected, but such scripts are not inherently dependent on the b0rked function. (Judging by the postings, there may have been a version of Learjeff Innis's free script that used this, but I'm not seeing it in the currently available version.

)

Oh, just remembered: I posted some source recently that positions and animates multiple avatars on a single prim, as if multiple llSitTarget()s had been set; that script is definitely toast today, but I don't know if anyone used it in a product yet.

Sally Silvera

live music maniac

Join date: 17 Feb 2007

Posts: 2,325

10-02-2007 08:26

Qie, thanks for the fabulous reply. It all actually made sense to me as well

!!

_____________________

Marianne McCann

Feted Inner Child

Join date: 23 Feb 2006

Posts: 7,145

10-02-2007 08:32

/me wipes sweat from brow

I jes checked my stuff, an it seems t'be okay - all using the two-part sit target helper and positioner scripts in the library.

Mari

_____________________

"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world

" - Prospero Linden

Darien Caldwell

Registered User

Join date: 12 Oct 2006

Posts: 3,127

10-02-2007 12:14

dang it, I was getting ready to use this new feature, and they have already borked it.

How very rude of them.

_____________________

Kitty Barnett

Registered User

Join date: 10 May 2006

Posts: 5,586

10-02-2007 15:47

From: Soft Linden

Nevertheless it's the only way to reposition an agent that's seated and it's widely used, so we'll want to preserve it.

I've fixed this, am testing it now, and we hope to roll the fix out soon.

...

This is going into testing internally, and will appear as a rolling restart once it passes.

All is well (in SL standards anyway

).

If your new chair doesn't work...
Qie Niangao Coin-operated Join date: 24 May 2006 Posts: 7,138	10-02-2007 04:04 Any script that positions the avatar after sitting is broken as of the 10/1 rolling restart. This only affects product versions introduced after SL release 1.13.4, and does not affect scripts that move unlinked poseballs (MLP, etc.). See for details. [Admittedly, this isn't a question, but might save a few from being asked.]
Argent Asbrink Registered User Join date: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 217	10-02-2007 04:46 Is there a Darwin award we could make for LL? This was just another in a long line of moves that sit up and yell "I'm a moron!", in that big, friendly, retarded voice you hear at the Special Olympics. Judging from the responses to the Jira...there are a number of folks a bit...irritated...at this. Which, of course, means that LL will do nothing to correct the situation...
Dekka Raymaker thinking very hard Join date: 4 Feb 2007 Posts: 3,898	10-02-2007 04:48 Does this effect Prim Sitter? _____________________
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	10-02-2007 05:20 This is because LL had the brilliant idea to outright stop llSetLinkPrimitiveParams from running on avatars instead of just disabling the bugged flag for avatars. I had a conversation with the Linden who implemented the "fix" but they were unmoved by my arguments to keep the functionality of PRIM_POSITION and PRIM_ROTATION. Once again LL has chosen to use the colloquial mean of "fix" referring to the neutering of a dog. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Cherry Czervik Came To Her Senses Join date: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 3,680	10-02-2007 05:26 Can we sit on your knee instead Qie? (As ever, thank you for your knowledge sharing )
Alicia Sautereau if (!social) hide; Join date: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 3,125	10-02-2007 05:27 From: Strife Onizuka This is because LL had the brilliant idea to outright stop llSetLinkPrimitiveParams from running on avatars instead of just disabling the bugged flag for avatars. I had a conversation with the Linden who implemented the "fix" but they were unmoved by my arguments to keep the functionality of PRIM_POSITION and PRIM_ROTATION. Once again LL has chosen to use the colloquial mean of "fix" referring to the neutering of a dog. lololololololololol
Argent Asbrink Registered User Join date: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 217	10-02-2007 05:42 None of my prim sitter furniture seems to be affected. At least THAT wasn't borked by the Lindens...errr....yet.
Sally Silvera live music maniac Join date: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,325	10-02-2007 06:07 Wow thanks for the warning. Sounds frightening. Can I add a question here, just cause..... I know not a whole lot about scripts and such, but how does one know which stuff is affected other than trying it out? (Which given the state of the grid could be a whole challenge of its own it seems.) Because I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them. _____________________
Nika Talaj now you see her ... Join date: 2 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,449	10-02-2007 06:21 /me sits happily on her ancient furniture and sends condolences flowers to all the creators who released new furniture in the last two weeks Thanks Qie and Strife. Boo LL! _____________________ . To contact forum folks, join the inworld group "The Forum Cartel". New residents with questions about SL more than welcome! We has parties! To contact forum scripters, join the inworld group "Scriptoratti" (thanks Void!). New scripter questions welcome!
Malachi Petunia Gentle Miscreant Join date: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 3,414	10-02-2007 06:34 From: someone I know not a whole lot about scripts and such, but how does one know which stuff is affected other than trying it out? (Which given the state of the grid could be a whole challenge of its own it seems.) Because I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them. That's the beauty of the whole system, it goes something like this: 1. LL puts a "beta" version of the client and server on the "beta" grid 2. LL invites their customers to test their software for them for free 3. Some customers, particularly those interested in scripts or textures dutifully test the software and report clearly documented, easily reproducible bug reports of the sort that most development engineers would kill for. 4. LL dutifully ignores the bug reports and at their option may close the bug report with a message saying "please refile this if it is still an issue after the release of the beta code 5. LL releases the "beta" code to the main grid 6. Now 100 people report the same bug as in step (3) 7. LL closes the new bug reports with "to be fixed in next release, resubmit if it is still broken", customers feel a great disturbance, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced And people still ask me why I stopped playing for about 2 years and don't script any longer. But I'm not bitter about it.
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	10-02-2007 06:37 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-750 _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Qie Niangao Coin-operated Join date: 24 May 2006 Posts: 7,138	10-02-2007 08:17 From: Malachi Petunia 1. LL puts a "beta" version of the client and server on the "beta" grid [...steps 2-7...] Think we missed that step this time: AFAIK, the server release running in production now never made it to the beta grid... or if it did, it was without much fanfare, and aditi was inaccessible to mere mortals for several weeks before the release was put in production. From: Sally Silvera [...] I´ve made some chairs and seating cushions and such and linked my own poseballs to them. If they're "conventional" poseballs, it'll be no problem. If one can see the scripts inside and finds llSetLinkPrimitiveParams(), then the problem would occur. This is a pretty new functionality (or, rather, was) used in newer scripts to adjust avatar position after sitting on a linked set of prims, perhaps to compensate for different animations and/or or avatar sizes. Sorry about being confusing in mentioning "unlinked poseballs"--what I meant was that some products achieved similar functionality adjusting the position of unlinked poseballs; just linking a regular poseball to a regular piece of furniture isn't affected. From: Dekka Raymaker Does this effect Prim Sitter? Probably not. There seems to be some confusion over in Scripting Tips about just which of the several "sit target positioner" script versions are affected, but such scripts are not inherently dependent on the b0rked function. (Judging by the postings, there may have been a version of Learjeff Innis's free script that used this, but I'm not seeing it in the currently available version. ) Oh, just remembered: I posted some source recently that positions and animates multiple avatars on a single prim, as if multiple llSitTarget()s had been set; that script is definitely toast today, but I don't know if anyone used it in a product yet.
Sally Silvera live music maniac Join date: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,325	10-02-2007 08:26 Qie, thanks for the fabulous reply. It all actually made sense to me as well !! _____________________
Marianne McCann Feted Inner Child Join date: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 7,145	10-02-2007 08:32 /me wipes sweat from brow I jes checked my stuff, an it seems t'be okay - all using the two-part sit target helper and positioner scripts in the library. Mari _____________________ "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
Darien Caldwell Registered User Join date: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 3,127	10-02-2007 12:14 dang it, I was getting ready to use this new feature, and they have already borked it. How very rude of them. _____________________
Kitty Barnett Registered User Join date: 10 May 2006 Posts: 5,586	10-02-2007 15:47 From: Soft Linden Nevertheless it's the only way to reposition an agent that's seated and it's widely used, so we'll want to preserve it. I've fixed this, am testing it now, and we hope to roll the fix out soon. ... This is going into testing internally, and will appear as a rolling restart once it passes. All is well (in SL standards anyway ).

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If your new chair doesn't work...