Concerning insanity...
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Joseph Abel
Leaves no pawprints...
Join date: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 781
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02-01-2008 13:21
As much as I'll admit to not having a single serious bone in my body, I have a serious question to ask:
Have you ever witnessed someone degrade into insanity in SL, and if so, how did you handle it?
Here is what I'm witnessing:
I have a friend in SL - been friends for well over a year.
I have been witnessing disturbing behavior from this individual, which has been getting progressively worse over the last 6-8 months, and am genuinely worried for their continued health and well being.
They're currently undergoing treatment for depression and stress, but some of the things I've witnessed seem to go beyond that - forgetting things they've just done or said in SL...denying evidence demonstrating what they've done (chat logs...rezzed objects...multiple witnesses)...and some confessions of RL behavior that borders (or worse) the criminal.
I think what worries me the most is, I've confronted them repeatedly with this, as have some others, and at those times, this person will admit they are not "clear-headed" and may need more help than they are receiving - but it never seems to happen.
...and the behavior is getting worse.
I do not know this person well enough to contact his family, or anyone else who could actually step in and see if there is a true need for help or not.
I've considered whether this is all a game, a series of role-play incidents that this person is portraying to have fun with people in some bizarre game that only they can see and win...and if this is the case, they're doing an exemplary job of playing the role.
However, I don't think this is the case. It seems genuine.
...and, of course, I've been looking hard at myself, to see if I'm reading irrational behavior into what would otherwise be odd, but safe, mannerisms in SL.
I don't believe that to be the case either, as I've had others confirm some of the things I've seen, and they seem to agree that this person is heading down the rabbit hole, and Wonderland is in for a new treat.
All said and done, has anyone else faced a situation in Second Life where someone you care for is loosing it...and if so, what did you do?
Or, if you have some advice to offer, please help - I've only dealt with the insane in RL...
(well, that, and I have to face the mirror every morning...when I see that crazed look in his eye, I know it's going to be one hell of a day)
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Cunundrum Alcott
A Sardonic Pessimist
Join date: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 773
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02-01-2008 13:24
I took about a 6 month vacation from SL because I was out of control. I hate to admit but the depression groups in the game IMO are no help (unless I'm going to the wrong ones).
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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02-01-2008 13:26
i would be interested in how much time your friend spends in SL. and how much sleep they are getting. Depression can lead to long and dangerous bouts of insomnia that do exhibit this behavior. if you know of a way to contact a family member, do so as quickly as possible.
to Conundrum: unless they are run by a licensed therapist, then i would avoid some like the plague as they will make you feel a hell of a lot worse. and the attendees play one upmanship a LOT!
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There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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02-01-2008 13:27
If they are having RL treatment for depression what you are seeing might at least partially be related to the medication they are on?
Some SSRI meds really screw with short term memory especially.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
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02-01-2008 13:27
It's Philip, isn't it?
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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02-01-2008 13:34
This is gonna sound REALLY cold, but...
...people tend to act way more sane when there are serious consequences (going without food, shelter) than when they can get delicious attention from 'concerned people' on the internet.
Your friend may be the real deal, and really in trouble.
Or, your friend may be a drama queen.
What are the odds? Step back a bit and think about it slowly, offline.
In either case, "get professional help" is the right advice.
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Joseph Abel
Leaves no pawprints...
Join date: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 781
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02-01-2008 13:35
From: 2k Suisei It's Philip, isn't it? Outed!! Thank you...I've laughed for over a minute now... Maggie: honestly, it's hard for me to say, but the insomnia thing is accurate - they seem to be most active at night, and the later it gets, the more "off" they become. Cherry: well, actually they recently started the meds...and they were exhibiting some disturbing behaviors well before the medications...however, the memory loss has increased as of late, so it may just be side-effect...which would be a relief. Conundrum: in-game help groups...I didn't know there were any, but I'll take your word on it. I wonder if this person is attending any of those. (edit to add) Desmond: you bring up a very good point, that has been sticking in the back of my head this whole time...it could be "dedication to drama"...and I'll admit, I'm a complete fish when it comes to that bait...I will keep it in mind.
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Nimbus rated!! From: Nimbus Rau So your final Nimbus Score is a grand total of 8.55. A magnificent achievement!
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Monica Balut
Beam-Me
Join date: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 311
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02-01-2008 13:43
Sounds like you've done pretty much what you can in SL to help this person back to reality. If this person is truly manic-depressive as you are suggesting, extreme forms of that can be psychotic in nature. Sounds like this person needs major psychiatric treatment. When it gets this bad, talk therapy usually is not enough and the person needs to be on medication or possibly even in the hospital if they are starting to become a danger to self or others.
Speaking of that, you mention a host of weird and possibly criminal behavior. Shop lifting is one thing, but at what point to you have the ethical responsibility to warn authorities if you believe that someone else could be in serious danger or perhaps suicidal. Tough call.
On the other hand, you yourself could get consumed with trying to help this individual. As I said above, at some point talking (or chatting) about it doesn't do much good. You may have to disconnect yourself from this individual.
By the way, I doubt that this behavior has been caused by SL. I hope we all understand how we can get lost in here and develop an addiction to it. The kind of behavior you're talking about suggests that the roots of this are in RL and not SL.
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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02-01-2008 13:43
From: Joseph Abel Outed!!
Thank you...I've laughed for over a minute now...
Maggie: honestly, it's hard for me to say, but the insomnia thing is accurate - they seem to be most active at night, and the later it gets, the more "off" they become.
Cherry: well, actually they recently started the meds...and they were exhibiting some disturbing behaviors well before the medications...however, the memory loss has increased as of late, so it may just be side-effect...which would be a relief.
Conundrum: in-game help groups...I didn't know there were any, but I'll take your word on it. I wonder if this person is attending any of those. contact his family, if you can, it could be his meds as Cherry stated, or he is experiencing a manic episode. the last thing i would have him do is a ttend a virtual group session. he neds real life intervention now, drama queen or not(no offense Desmond), a cry for help is a cry for help.
_____________________
There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Cunundrum Alcott
A Sardonic Pessimist
Join date: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 773
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02-01-2008 13:48
There are depression support groups in the game, I don't recommend them.
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Isabeau Imako
P'tite Poulette
Join date: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 2,335
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02-01-2008 13:49
Good question but, I don't think there's much you can actually do for them in SL.
I've met one or two people who didn't seem quite 'right' at times (mood swings, etc), but they were not close friends. At the risk of maybe losing their friendship, if you are close, you may mention your concerns in private. To witness someone slowly losing it must be terribly frustrating since you are powerless to do much for them. Unfortunately, when people are at their lowest, they're not that open to comments or suggestions from online 'buddies'. What they do need is for someone to simply listen to them - not as easy as it sounds, though.
Good luck.
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Dana Hickman
Leather & Lace™
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,515
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02-01-2008 13:53
Not so much about insanity, but there was a guy I dated a long time ago in SL who's stability declined sharply due to a nasty heroin addiction. He hadn't told me about it at first, but I'd been noticing the signs and symptoms for a good while. After he finally broke down and told me, he was thinking that I would just discard him like trash. I'm not that way, and when I didn't, the guilt from his own addiction ate through him like a wildfire. In no time at all we weren't even friends anymore.. he changed that much. If there's no RL connection, and not really anyone you could call to get help for this person, the only thing you can do is continue to be understanding, helpfull, and supportive  |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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02-01-2008 13:53
This situation could be a mix of both real mental issues, and some attention-getting drama on your friend's part. It sounds like they really are under treatment for depression, but when they hint about RL near-criminal activities they may be cadging for attention.
Just because they're engaging in drah-ma doesn't mean they don't need help.
The fact that manic-depression (bipolarity) creeped into this thread when all Joseph referred to was treatment for depression (monopolarity) is a really good illustration of how clumsy arms-length help efforts can be. You are this person's VIRTUAL friend, Joseph. Beyond being supportive and very up-front about how much you feel they need help, being a mirror by which they can see that at least in SL they do not appear to be getting better, I don't know that there's much you can - or should - do.
.
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Alicia Sautereau
if (!social) hide;
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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02-01-2008 13:54
better ask your self "How can you not go nuts in Second Life?"
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foehn Breed
More random than random
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,142
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btdt
02-01-2008 13:55
From: Joseph Abel *snip*
Have you ever witnessed someone degrade into insanity in SL, and if so, how did you handle it? *snip* It's the internet, all within tolerances, w/e the behaviors. Are you enjoying the friendship or providing an audience, validation, enabling, feeding into their BS? More then likely you are not going to "help" anyone. Some ppls you have to walk off on, they just recycle ppls and continue acting out anyways.
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Einstein "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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02-01-2008 13:56
One of the biggest limitations in SL is not being able to see RL facial expressions. You can't get a proper read as to how far off the deep end they have gotten. Or how much pain they are in. Advise them to get RL help asap is about all you can do other than be there as a friend as long as your boundaries are not crossed.
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Tiana Whitfield
Forever And A Day
Join date: 1 Apr 2007
Posts: 702
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02-01-2008 13:57
From: 2k Suisei It's Philip, isn't it? I know out of order to laugh on this thread, but some of your replies are very unhealthy for my keyboard when I have a drink in hand!! |
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Yosef Okelly
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 2,692
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02-01-2008 13:59
From: Maggie McArdle Depression can lead to long and dangerous bouts of insomnia that do exhibit this behavior. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt .. and the jacket. some anti-depressants also have a side effect of sleep pattern disruption. Also ... add on top of this another little side affect of depression is obsessive fixation on a single stimulus like .... Second Life. As silly as it sounds I chained smoked and played Legend of Zelda all the time. ALL the time. In the end, not all anti-deos are the same. If your friend is taking his and still having problems he needs to tell his doctor. There is not much you can do but hound him until he goes and gets help. Since putting your socks on is a force of will when you are deep in clinical depression you should recognise just how much you are going to have to repeat this to them: "Go See Your Doctor!!!" |
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Chav Paderborn
in ur sl
Join date: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 192
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02-01-2008 14:03
From: Cunundrum Alcott I hate to admit but the depression groups in the game IMO are no help (unless I'm going to the wrong ones). I'm in a social anxiety group that never does anything and never speaks. Possibly because we all have social anxiety  |
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Joseph Abel
Leaves no pawprints...
Join date: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 781
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02-01-2008 14:12
Sound advice, one and all...
I seem to be hearing a lot of "take a step back, but don't walk away" kind of advice...
...which, is what I was afraid I'd hear a lot of.
(I'm the kind that's guilty of allowing myself to get too deeply involved...sheesh...4 decades on this rock, and you'd think by now I'd know enough to remain detached)
Yosef, you bring in a good point which I have not considered...I do not know first-hand how difficult it is to just simply live when experiencing severe depression - I will keep on them, and run the risk of them telling me to FOAD...it may help.
After all, if they drop me as a friend, and refuse to acknowledge me, that's something I know how to handle...
_____________________
Nimbus rated!! From: Nimbus Rau So your final Nimbus Score is a grand total of 8.55. A magnificent achievement!
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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02-01-2008 14:19
From: Chav Paderborn I'm in a social anxiety group that never does anything and never speaks. Possibly because we all have social anxiety At least it doesn't take long for the secretary to read back the minutes from the last meeting.
_____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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02-01-2008 16:26
From: Joseph Abel As much as I'll admit to not having a single serious bone in my body, I have a serious question to ask:
Have you ever witnessed someone degrade into insanity in SL, and if so, how did you handle it?
Here is what I'm witnessing:
I have a friend in SL - been friends for well over a year.
I have been witnessing disturbing behavior from this individual, which has been getting progressively worse over the last 6-8 months, and am genuinely worried for their continued health and well being.
They're currently undergoing treatment for depression and stress, but some of the things I've witnessed seem to go beyond that - forgetting things they've just done or said in SL...denying evidence demonstrating what they've done (chat logs...rezzed objects...multiple witnesses)...and some confessions of RL behavior that borders (or worse) the criminal.
I think what worries me the most is, I've confronted them repeatedly with this, as have some others, and at those times, this person will admit they are not "clear-headed" and may need more help than they are receiving - but it never seems to happen.
...and the behavior is getting worse.
I do not know this person well enough to contact his family, or anyone else who could actually step in and see if there is a true need for help or not.
I've considered whether this is all a game, a series of role-play incidents that this person is portraying to have fun with people in some bizarre game that only they can see and win...and if this is the case, they're doing an exemplary job of playing the role.
However, I don't think this is the case. It seems genuine.
...and, of course, I've been looking hard at myself, to see if I'm reading irrational behavior into what would otherwise be odd, but safe, mannerisms in SL.
I don't believe that to be the case either, as I've had others confirm some of the things I've seen, and they seem to agree that this person is heading down the rabbit hole, and Wonderland is in for a new treat.
All said and done, has anyone else faced a situation in Second Life where someone you care for is loosing it...and if so, what did you do?
Or, if you have some advice to offer, please help - I've only dealt with the insane in RL...
(well, that, and I have to face the mirror every morning...when I see that crazed look in his eye, I know it's going to be one hell of a day) put 'em on mute and get on with your life.
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FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
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02-01-2008 16:42
As fellow concerned pixelated faerie and human being, who struggles with various health and my own emotional issues including memory problems there really not much you can do.
The person is a Adult and responsible for his own real life health.
If it really, really bothers you and you feel uncomfortable sucked in the drama maybe you should step back and interact with him less.
There are people in my own virtual world that get me down and I have to step back, focus on caring for myself.
Also when I find myself being too emotional or weird, and potentially burdening my friends I often take breaks to show respect and not interfere with their in world fun.
Personally the medications for depression for some don't work and can cause serious health issues.
And getting support for depression in world ....um I wouldn't.
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Cunundrum Alcott
A Sardonic Pessimist
Join date: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 773
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02-01-2008 17:09
From: Chav Paderborn I'm in a social anxiety group that never does anything and never speaks. Possibly because we all have social anxiety I went to a few meetings of a group I was referred to. Each person in the group would dump their problems in the middle for everyone in the group to criticise and pronounce judgement on. After some of that I was more depressed than I was previously. |
