Would people make an alt for L$xx? Would they put payment info on file for less?

Suppose Uncle Moneybags wants to give NPIOFs a monetary incentive to put payment info on file.

He doesn't care how many existing alts get the incentive, but he doesn't want to create an alt-making frenzy, just to collect the incentive.

So is there some non-empty range of L$ payment that would suffice to attract some folks to put payment info on file, but isn't enough for people to create an alt just to get the L$s?

If so, what is this range?

(It may or may not matter, but: if they create an alt, they'd also need to put payment info on file for it, to qualify it for the L$s.)

well, assuming uncle moneybags isn't a linden then piof is pretty useless atm. Unless they've finally fixed it I thought you'd got to turn it into piu for it to turn up on the profile *or* to be able to get into the adult stuff.

if it does work now then I have no idea tbh. Would cash or goods be better? if you offered them a very nice selection of your goodies over on the other side it might be a better incentive.

or better still, if you can organise it so we can all put something in a server as a thank you package that they can receive when they get to zindra and touch the box then between us all we could probably kit out their entire life.

As long as you have a relatively foolproof way of confirming they're unverified in the first place of course.

Very strange question, Qie, unless you're thinking of setting up a virtual world yourself. For LL, that ship has already sailed, don't you think?

Being an adult, I would mentally convert the $L into real currency mentally, thereby turning the question into: how much would a retailer have to pay me to give them my credit card #, if they did not at the moment offer anything I wanted to buy? And at that point I would become suspicious and not do it.

If I weren't an adult, how much would I want? Well, within SL, I would think that just 'verifying' the account and thus getting access to Adult content would be enough of an incentive for most kids. Money would help, sure, but I have no insight into how much, sorry.

FWIW, I think LL's "First Land" program was brilliant. If new PIOFs got a piece of land anywhere (even on an estate with very loose covenant), with maybe a year's worth of free tier, I think that would be much more interesting.
.

PIOF is good enough to adult-verify, but yeah: I don't know whether PIOF actually gets into the in-world profile without having to contact Support. Maybe I'll sacrifice an alt to the gods of PayPal to test it. It would kinda suck to promise somebody L$x and then renege on the deal until they get Support to actually make it work--although of course it's that outcome that we care about, not how much effort it takes to achieve it.
I already plan on doing that for my own stuff (as I've mentioned in other threads). I was just thinking L$s might be a different sort of incentive. But your idea of pooling freebies into a kind of "Zindra Welcome Wagon" thing... that might be enough of an incentive to actually make a difference, if it could be organized, and word spread at clubs and stores (and their landmark-giver remains) that will be moving. Anybody up for a challenge?
A script can determine that an agent's account is neither PIU nor PIOF. A script can also confirm that they are age verified if they can get on an age-restricted parcel, but I can't think of a way to test that they are *not* age-verified. So I punted on that and pretended that PIOF/PIU was "close enough" that an incentive program might have some effect.
I'm strange that way.

Of course, it's all about trying to smooth the Adult content transition. I have no idea whether Uncle Moneybags could find the scratch to pull off such a scheme, but that presupposes that the scheme would work--hence the question of the thread.

The suspicion thing crossed my mind, too. If Uncle's minions trolled around Welcome Areas and other newbie emporiums offering L$50 (say) to NPIOFs, they'd probably think it was a scam. And maybe worse, some of them would trust the scheme enough to get PIOF and L$50--and then be primed to trust the scammers, too. This is starting to sound like another of my Very Bad Ideas™.

I have been employing this strategy for months using the Profile Picks Reward system. People will put payment info on file in order to get paid for Picks. In a recent survey of my group, 41% said that they put payment info on file primarily so they could get paid for Picks. Another 12.8% said it was one of several factors. So that's over half of the people with PIOF/PIU who replied to my survey, who added payment info because of my incentive. I'd say it works!

PIOF and PIU users are also more than twice as likely to buy from the shops on my sim, compared to NPIOF. I don't have adult content (aside from on my Adult zoned rental sims) but I want good search rankings and PIU customers, and my plan has been very successful.

All of this is why I have been saying that the Adult Content changes are overall a good thing. Ability to access sex is a POWERFUL motivator to add PIOF, more powerful than money for many people. More people with payment info = more money being spent on the grid. Fewer freeloaders, fewer griefer kiddies with disposable accounts. SL is going to be a much nicer place!

If they'd bother fixing it so that payment info added to the account actually SHOWED up as payment info on file... I'd have done it already and without being bribed into it.

What I would *rather* see is either do away with the current alt limit or at least raise it to some reasonable level. Roleplayers often have twenty going and use and buy things for each one. It isn't actually taking money or entertainment/retention out of the game but putting all of those things INTO it (each one of those avatars in use, affects other players too).

I'd say ten is a fair number for all concerned.

I think all avatars rezzed should begin with $10 Linden. That is not enough to induce any but the most ardently greedy to create alts simply for $Lindens (a lot easier way simply is to beg and beg, for that cheeky of a person) but it would at least allow them to buy a dollarbie hairstyle, etc. And to just generally feel like a citizen.



It is supposed to once the new viewer is installed.

/me is amazed to see someone publishing survey *results* on RA. The correct course of action is to post the survey, then disappear.

you're talking about people that camp for a living... so the answer is no... but you COULD limit the account creation date... theoretically. and if uncle moneybags is a linden that would discourage people with large bot farms from registering all their bot alts (or at least make them get creative to do it), for fear of losing those accounts to the alt limit.

probably the easiest thing to do is organise a zindra only grid hunt and advertise it on the adult groups.

They're still hugely popular and for those who are npiof the lure of all those freebies may be enough to get them to flip over.

For everyone else it's a chance to find out what's moved to zindra and to get new LMs for their favourite places.

and for the merchants/clubs it's a chance to perhaps (big perhaps since most hunters don't spend) make some cash since we're into the summer slowdown and the move may well just be the death knell for some of the shops/clubs income wise.

yes, they'll recoup some cash from selling the land but losing the diversity is not good. Enough have closed down already in preparation for this, we don't need more shops going under because rl pressures mean that this becomes a too expensive hobby because the cashflow has dried up.

People will fight over a camp chair to earn 10 L$ an hour. I think alt-farming would out pace the normal people taking advantage of the offer no matter what the incentive price.

[ETA]
DOH!
Void already said that. I should read the whole thing before posting

This reminds me of another thread that was kicking around a month ago or so, about a "traffic cone" system. It was a little brain-damaged, and had the big disadvantage (now) of artificially inflating traffic, but the idea was to reward people with L$s for responding to advertisements by teleporting to the advertiser's location, with a new location provided every 11 minutes.

Imagine we iron out some of the snags in that system, make it Adult sims only, and somehow minimize its "traffic gaming" potential (without tempting folks to overwork the grid with too-frequent teleports). Assuming it's more lucrative than whatever remains of sub-Adult camping, it might be enough to push some folks into adult-verifying, and even give some advertising benefit to Adult businesses.

I wonder if Zindra businesses would want such a system to be open to all Adult sims, or only to Zindra.

I've got to ask why you're so fixated on getting the npiof to do the deed with money incentives, particularly since they don't spend a lot of cash in comparison to those who have the payment. Yes, it's nice to help those who cannot for whatever reason bring money in, but they are a minority.

Those who chose not to put payment on file or verify do so primarily because they see no value in it. Giving them a few LLs isn't going to do much because if they didn't see the need before then it's unlikely they'll be back once they've grabbed the cash.

I'm specifically talking about those who don't have a piof alt and as a proportion of the grid I suspect there are very few. On my figures only 25% of npiof spend money in my shop and they only make up 10% of my sales.

I see our biggest problem as being with those that have verified but will never use the adult search to look for places because they think they'll be just seeing sex room/adult services ads. At the moment there are a large proportion of people who don't even flip mature on when searching for naughty stuff so we are going to become invisible while those left on the mainland and manage to game the ads will be fine.

Remember zindra isn't a recognisable thing and is almost impossible to find. If you use map search zindra is a plot of water between the safe hub and the continent.

That's why I prefer goods to straight cash it appeals to a wider audience for a start and a hunt is a normal pursuit around the grid rather than just campers.

Just in case you've misunderstood my agenda, let me make it clear. I'm not interested in doing LLs job for them, what I am interested in doing is making sure that those of us who are forced to move aren't unduly impacted by it. Anecdotally I know of a fair few people who had already tiered down before this started because of rl financial pressures and a decrease in sl sales.

The last thing we need is those people being forced to close because they've been forced to move and have lost all their customers and can no longer afford to maintain their second life.

That's my agenda here, too, and only that. And mostly, I'm concerned about the first few months of transition; after that, well, those SL residents that knowingly don't want the options made available by adult verification shouldn't have to get it, and the Adult businesses can serve whatever market there is, and Zindra will be whatever it will be. But right now, I'm concerned about folks being excluded by simply not being as obsessively "in the loop" as are Forums regulars, for example.

I'm thinking that the whole future of Zindra and Adult content on the grid could be influenced by what we do--yes, *we*, not LL--over the next few weeks, and I'm trying to brainstorm options that might plausibly help.
Valid point. And I agree that an Adult-only (or Zindra-only?) hunt, and other freebies or discount incentives, target a broader (and generally better) audience than just doling out L$s to the desperate. So I guess I'll give up on the pay-for-PIOF thing.

Especially since I just supplied billing data for an NPIOF account and sure enough: profile did not update accordingly. Sent a scary support ticket to Billing; should be amusing to watch this process, as so many have before me.

I think so, our best bet is to try and get people to stop thinking of zindra as the porn capital of sl. I mean, rape rooms can now stay on the mainland but my bondage toy shop has to move. The disconnect between what people think is going to be there and the reality is huge.




What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that this "broke" around December last year (which is around the time LL put the mockup of the continent on the grid - co-incidence??) and the only work around is to actually spend some cash on the lindex (where they get their commission of course) or go premium.

Qie, I'm gathering you've never been much of a freebie hunter I think rewarding with goods, well-advertised through normal grid mechanisms of groups and well-read blogs, is the way to go.

The idea to do a Zindra-wide hunt is an excellent one, but I'd precede that with big sim opening parties. Any self-respecting freebie hunter knows that the best gifts on the grid are given when a new sim owner throws a weeklong sim opening hunt and party. Oh, the Muse opening, the Bricolage opening, and Magic of Oz! Fabulous! And, a sim opening party can be advertised through the sim owner's group, well in advance.

Then, when the Zindra-wide hunt comes along, make sure there are some gifts that are never-before-seen-for-free, valuable items. Like Rendezvous or Sine Wave popular dances or packs of B&B poseballs. Not necessarily Adult stuff. You want it to be widely known as the best hunt EVER.

You may want to consider finding a way for sim owners of Zindra to band together and put together a coordinated plan, so that sim opening parties don't conflict with each other and the Zindra-wide hunt.
.

There's going to be a 5 week move window - 3 for the apps and 2 for those last applications to move.

This takes us into August. A grid hunt around the middle to end of August would be good. Depending on how many merchants take part they it doesn't have to be a month long, usually after the first couple of weeks the numbers drop off drastically.

July/August are traditionally slow months as people are out enjoying the northern sunshine so it's mainly the hard core sl-ers who are around.

Once the kids go back to school in sept then numbers will rise again. Even doing a couple of hunts might not be a bad idea - come October time people are usually tucking themselves into sl for winter and so reminding them we exist is not a bad thing either.

As for getting all the new owners of Zindra together.. I would think that would be a lot like herding cats lol

Possibly the only way to do it is by creating a group and encouraging all new business owners to join "The Zindra Business Owners Association" perhaps? Although I have no group slots left, which is always a problem with these things.

To add insult to injury, they send email saying they'll ignore my support ticket because I didn't use the special ticket type reserved for issues befitting paupers, thieves, and the NPIOF. Resubmitted.

Then they send an email saying they need a bunch of security questions answered in the ticket to be able to access the account. Name, Date of Birth (?), email address, most recently time in-world, and account balance.

huh sounds like they think you want a password reset. which is strange considering you had to log in to lodge the ticket..

I'd probably send them back a note asking them what drugs they're on so you can take some too and understand wtf they're on about.

mind you it does make perfect business sense. If they make it so difficult to get sorted this way then people will give in and bring some money in via the lindex. It's a bit like how they haven't managed to extract the names of the xsl accounts who are verified and load them up either..

My thought, too. I concluded that they're not using that info to verify the person filing the ticket at all. I'm thinking that this support is maybe outsourced to some utterly untrustworthy outfit and the reps have to supply this detail each time they try to access an account, to make sure they're actually responding to customer requests and not just plowing through the customer data to thieve identities.