Increased tier when transferring land to a group?
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Datreebear Balut
Narf!
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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08-23-2007 14:08
Here's the scenario:
I owned 1024m2 in a sim and had transferred that to a group (me and my alt). All was well until new neighbours showed up and started peppering the place with those lovely "for sale" signs and filling in the water parcels with "grass" prims and whatnot. I decided to move.
I transferred the land from the group back to my own control and put it up for sale. I then went out and bough another 1024m2 in another new sim. My old land sold within a couple of days (even at a slight profit). All of this was during the previous billing cycle and my tier jumped to 2048m2 as expected.
At the beginning of this cycle, my land fees dropped down to the 1024m2 tier (as I only owned 1024m at the start of the cycle). I then decided to deed the land to the group. I followed (at least I am fairly sure I did) the instructions laid out in the sticky thread about land transfers and had no problem deeding the land to the group. However, my land use fees now indicate that I am back at the 2048m2 mark - even though all I did was transfer the same 1024m2 parcel from myself to my group.
Is there something here that I did wrong that caused this or should I be opening a ticket?
Thank You.
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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08-23-2007 14:12
Did you not remove your contribution when selling yourself back the land? Check the Land and L tab to see if you still have tier contributed to the group.
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Datreebear Balut
Narf!
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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08-23-2007 14:24
From: Cristalle Karami Did you not remove your contribution when selling yourself back the land? Check the Land and L tab to see if you still have tier contributed to the group. I am not in game atm but my account info on the website says I only have 1024m2 donated to the group. I will confirm in-game when I get home today. I don't recall actually reducing my group contribution before I transferred my old land back to my own control. (This was the only land my group owned at the time if that makes any difference.) I can accept that my failure to remove the contribution prior to transferring the land back to my control could cause this. But would my tier fee still drop to 1024m2 at the beginning of this cycle (as it did) if that was the case? I appreciate any help or suggestions.  I just want to figure out if I made a mistake so I can avoid doing that in the future. Thank You.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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08-23-2007 14:30
Usually when you transfer land back to yourself, the box is ticked to remove your tier contribution. So it's unlikely that that's the issue as you don't recall removing it, it's likely that you automatically did this.
Did you contribute any land to the group when you deeded it though?
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Datreebear Balut
Narf!
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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08-23-2007 14:41
From: Ciaran Laval Usually when you transfer land back to yourself, the box is ticked to remove your tier contribution. So it's unlikely that that's the issue as you don't recall removing it, it's likely that you automatically did this.
Did you contribute any land to the group when you deeded it though? I did contribute the 1024m2 again - though my account info on the web site says I only have 1024m2 contributions in total. I wonder if I got snagged twice for the peak land use calculation (once for me owning it and once for my contribution) while the transfer was being processed? That would explain the jump in tier happening without any change in actual land held. If this did happen, personally, I would consider it a bug.  Thank You.
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Alicia Sautereau
if (!social) hide;
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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08-23-2007 14:45
when u take land out of an group, u need to remove the groep teir from the group and then get the land back under ur name
if u take the land out of the group first, u have 1024 in groep donation and 1024 in private holding so endup with 2048 with just 1 1024
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Datreebear Balut
Narf!
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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08-23-2007 14:56
From: Alicia Sautereau when u take land out of an group, u need to remove the groep teir from the group and then get the land back under ur name
if u take the land out of the group first, u have 1024 in groep donation and 1024 in private holding so endup with 2048 with just 1 1024 Hmm. Wouldn't that have put me into the 4096m2 tier then? I had 1024m2 contribution to the group, I transferred 1024m2 to myself, and bought another 1024m2 - all during the last cycle. If it was counting my own land plus my contribution that should have showed a peak of 3072m2 and it only showed 2048m2. And, my peak (and tier fee) dropped to the 1024m2 level at the beginning of the new cycle and I would have expected that to stay at 2048m2 if it was still counting the old contribution as well. I am not saying that the contribution issue wasn't the cause, I am just trying to make sure I understand what happened here.  Thank You.
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Racal Hanner
Ghost
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 406
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08-23-2007 15:04
Edit > Group .. Set contribution to Zero .. then set yourself to buy it back for zero L$ . ... https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/security.asp ... KK I realise the URL above won't work .. So .. From the main SL web page choose "support" Login with your username .. Choose "Knowledgebase" . Search .. "Group LAnd" .. The 5th entry .. "How to Change Your Group Land Contribution From One Group to Another" .. See Which.
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Kevyn Hienke
Curmudgeon
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 238
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08-23-2007 18:37
Datreebear, is this the procedure you followed? From: someone HOW TO: DEED LAND TO A GROUP (TRANSFER FROM INDIVIDUAL TO GROUP) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Join or Create a Group 2. Set Land Contribution 3. Deed Land to Group
JOIN OR CREATE GROUP
If you haven't already, you need to join the group you want to deed land to, or create a group. Note: You will need 2 people to create a group (Primary and alt avatars will be sufficient).
SET LAND CONTRIBUTION
1. Select Edit >> Groups from the menubar. A list of the groups you belong to appears.
2. Highlight the group you want to donate to click the Info button. The Group Information box opens.
3. Click the "Land & L$" tab.
4. In the Your Contribution box, enter the amount you want to donate and click "Apply".
DEED LAND TO GROUP
1. Go to the land and right-click it. Select About Land from the pie menu.
2. Click on the General tab.
3. Click the Set button next to the Group name. A list of groups will appear.
4. Select the group you want and click Set.
5. Check the Allow Deed to Group box nad click the Deed button.
Note: Owner Makes Contribution With Deed combines these steps if you want a shortcut. This assumes you wish to deed and contribute equal amounts.
If you get an error that your group does not have enough land credits, first check that you selected the correct group and you allocated enough land in the first step above.
Known issue: If you have a parcel that used to be owned just by one owner and is now to be group land, there is sometimes an issue with being able to allocate land to a group as the system is seeing the owner as trying to own double the land as opposed to trying to change his or her allocation. This procedure, as stated, *without* doing what is in the "Note" will bump you up. If the steps you followed were: 1) Create a group 2) Contributed 1,024 sq m of tier to the group 3) Deeded land to the group then at completion of step two you were in the 2,048sq m tier group. The 1,024sq m for the land that was still in your name, and the 1,024sq m of tier you had just contributed to the group. In order to avoid this, it is best to follow the procedure given in the knowledge base: From: someone How do I deed land to a group?
Deeding group land can seem like a complex task, but the following steps will handle the most basic scenarios.
To give land to a group, but continue to pay for it:
1. Right-click the land and choose About Land. 2. In the General tab, click Set and select the group. 3. Select Allow Deed To Group, then Owner Makes Contribution With Deed. 4. Click Deed. If you're not an officer of the group you want to deed your land to, you'll have to ask an officer to click Deed for you.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-24-2007 07:26
You're right. Those instructions are downright wrong - if you contribute to the group manually before deeding the land, then you will be charged for the 2048sqm of tier you're using for a few seconds. Where are those instructions from? The danger of using "owner makes contribution with deed" is that it will still make the contribution even if it isn't actually NEEDED, but doing it manually is not any solution 
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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08-24-2007 07:30
i dont think it will allow you to donate tier you dont already have.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-24-2007 07:37
From: Nina Stepford i dont think it will allow you to donate tier you dont already have. If you have previously been at a higher tier, then your "tier limit" stays at the higher value even when your actual usage falls back down again. SL will allow you to donate up to your tier limit without warning you.
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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08-24-2007 07:43
so if i had 4,096 in jan, only 512 in feb, then in mar i could donate 2048 to a group?
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-24-2007 07:53
From: Nina Stepford so if i had 4,096 in jan, only 512 in feb, then in mar i could donate 2048 to a group? That's right. What SL keeps track of is your "maximum tier". If you make a purchase that sends you over your maximum tier, then you're prompted that you'll need to tier up to make it. If you actually use less land in a month than your maximum tier entitles you to, then you only pay for the land you actually used. But your maximum tier remains exactly the same. Suppose that if you own 2048sqm, then you sell 1024sqm. You pay the 2048sqm tier for that month (based on your peak usage), then the following month you want to buy another 1024sqm. Because of the maximum tier system you will NOT be prompted again, you'll just pay the 2048sqm tier in the new month too. The system will not warn you of a tier increase even though, if you hadn't bought that extra 1024sqm, you would have been charged only the 1024sqm tier. If you want to reduce your maximum you have to do it explicitly via the accounting pages on the website. So yes, if you have 4096 in January, then you sell right back down to 512 for Feburary, then you can donate up to 3584sqm to a group without being warned of a tier fee increase. If you do so, you will be charged the 4096sqm tier, of course.
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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08-24-2007 08:31
well thats fucked up.
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Kevyn Hienke
Curmudgeon
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 238
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08-24-2007 09:20
From: Nina Stepford well thats fucked up. yeah, but you can go into the Land Fees page on the website and reduce it manually so you get warned if you do need to tier up again. https://secure-web1.secondlife.com/account/landfees.phpFrom: someone If you release land holdings or donations and want to receive tier warnings at a new, lower level, you must tier-down using the radio buttons below. (You may remain at the higher tier level without penalty; tier fees are only charged for the total amount of land actually held within your billing cycle.) If you don't lower your tier and purchase more land, no warnings are sent, as you are still within the tier you allotted.
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