Can you spin this, LibSL apologists?

Just wondering what verbal gymnastics you'll come up with.

The following was originally posted by Cristiano Midnight on SLUniverse:


This is a chat log from the #libsl channel - several of the people in the chat log are prominent members of the group. There have been public statements by members that they had no intention of upsetting people and are doing this all for the good of SL - yet several days before this entire thing exploded, they are gleefully discussing causing people to freak out. I bolded relevant parts - it begins about halfway down, but I left the rest in for context. I will caveat this by saying this does not represent all libsl members - but it does not speak very well of the principal people involved with the project who seem to find this all quite hilarious.

Nov 10 18:42:51 BabaYama ;0
Nov 10 18:42:58 BabaYama hamlet is already on my case for being a griefer
Nov 10 18:43:10 jhurliman can anyone find a quaternion calculator online? i'm trying to generate some test cases for nunit
Nov 10 18:43:11 bushing who's hamlet
Nov 10 18:43:12 maxine hamlet is already on BabaYama's case for being a griefer
Nov 10 18:43:14 frob maxine: forget hamlet
Nov 10 18:43:14 bushing ugh
Nov 10 18:43:15 maxine frob: I forgot hamlet
Nov 10 18:43:30 jhurliman bushing, http://nwn.blogs.com/
Nov 10 18:43:50 * bushing has had trauma w/ quaternions
Nov 10 18:44:37 jhurliman short story: he used to be a linden, as their official reporter but he's an independent guy now (with ties to LL). considered one of the more notable SL blogs
Nov 10 18:44:55 jhurliman i made a video with him this afternoon so libsecondlife should be on that page sometime this weekend
Nov 10 18:45:21 Cw "In 2006, the effects of first-time immersion in virtual worlds were documented by many technologists and sociologists, none quite as sadistic as Hurliaman, who took Milgram's approach in reinforcing that, regardless of their attempts to hit various keys or move the mouse in any direction, they could not depart (or even climb) orientation island
Nov 10 18:45:26 jhurliman anecdotes: anshe chung doesn't like him, and he thinks baba is a griefer.
Nov 10 18:45:41 bushing jhurliman, probably before we get on metaverse sessions, eh?
Nov 10 18:45:47 Cw fuck mark
Nov 10 18:45:52 bushing lol
Nov 10 18:46:02 jhurliman Cw: ??
Nov 10 18:46:25 Cw not a big deal jh
Nov 10 18:46:39 BabaYama jhurliman, he knows who I am ;0 he just wants to know why i left that plane (parts) in the art gallery ;0
Nov 10 18:46:46 BabaYama haha honestly i forgot about it
Nov 10 18:46:47 jhurliman one question mark for "In 2006..." and one for "fuck mark"
Nov 10 18:47:07 Cw bush is a little shy when it comes to things like these so i had to egg him on a little bit to get you two on metaverse sessions
Nov 10 18:47:17 jhurliman BabaYama, i think one of the owners IMed me this morning and was like "nooooooo!!! why does baba hate us?"
Nov 10 18:47:21 Cw who knows where johnny ming is
Nov 10 18:47:28 BabaYama haha
Nov 10 18:47:42 BabaYama what did they say? ;0
Nov 10 18:47:43 Cw Milgam was learned helplessness
Nov 10 18:48:02 jhurliman Cw: our interview got cut! :-\
Nov 10 18:48:08 Belaya Many people don't like Hamlet, heh.
Nov 10 18:48:12 Cw not in my book
Nov 10 18:48:27 jhurliman bushing, you might recognize hamlet from SLCC too
Nov 10 18:48:28 Cw come on are yous erious?
Nov 10 18:48:34 Cw let's talk about in world fashion
Nov 10 18:48:37 Cw oh shit
Nov 10 18:48:41 Cw someone is stealing my textures
Nov 10 18:48:43 Cw dmca report!
Nov 10 18:48:49 Cw lindens must be on top of those
Nov 10 18:48:52 * Belaya laughs.
Nov 10 18:48:53 BabaYama jhurliman, i dont think he was paying attention to anything
Nov 10 18:49:00 bushing suck it
Nov 10 18:49:00 BabaYama he spent all of SLCC in the dark with his computer
Nov 10 18:49:18 Cw libSL is the most important thing happening in this space
Nov 10 18:49:22 jhurliman i'm going to walk away for 5 minutes to cook a pizza, and when i return hopefully this conversation makes sense
Nov 10 18:49:23 bushing ugh
Nov 10 18:49:25 BabaYama but he dates a linden now ;0 so he will learn ;0
Nov 10 18:49:27 Cw not whatever ming "cut" it for
Nov 10 18:49:38 bushing azureus is like totally shitting all over my viewer
Nov 10 18:50:05 BabaYama Cw, they did the interview like months ago
Nov 10 18:50:10 BabaYama when shit was boring
Nov 10 18:50:16 BabaYama now we're gonna steal your shit
Nov 10 18:50:28 BabaYama haha
Nov 10 18:50:31 BabaYama and run away with it ;0
Nov 10 18:50:34 BabaYama like that griever
Nov 10 18:50:39 BabaYama with the tv ;0
Nov 10 18:50:42 BabaYama "Your Tv"
Nov 10 18:51:03 Cw do what now?
Nov 10 18:51:12 Cw alright
Nov 10 18:51:30 Cw admittedly, yes, the highlight at that point was injecting packets to give people god mode
Nov 10 18:51:39 BabaYama haha
Nov 10 18:51:55 BabaYama now the highlight is "OH SHIT"
Nov 10 18:52:09 Cw the mutha fuckin' spotlight
Nov 10 18:52:31 BabaYama MUTHA FUCKIN' HALOGEN
Nov 10 18:52:41 bushing so is the object stealer in SVN yet or not?
Nov 10 18:52:50 bushing Cw, did ou see this?
Nov 10 18:53:00 BabaYama oh yeah our object stealer
Nov 10 18:53:05 Cw i just don't know where on the spectrum of LL ridiculousness their "open source client" in "dec" will fall
Nov 10 18:53:08 Cw no
Nov 10 18:53:17 BabaYama and there is supposedly an exploit still functional to steal scripts
Nov 10 18:53:28 bushing BabaYama, do you have that image?
Nov 10 18:53:32 Cw so combined with rob hubbard, you've got a complete cloner?
Nov 10 18:53:35 BabaYama heh
Nov 10 18:53:42 Cw ahem
Nov 10 18:53:43 Cw ron
Nov 10 18:53:51 * Cw not a big scientologist
Nov 10 18:53:56 BabaYama bushing, yeah let me upload it to libSL ;0
Nov 10 18:54:03 BabaYama cause i put it on my website and that fucker is down
Nov 10 18:54:44 IceBrodie hrm, need to initiate teleport start and end...
Nov 10 18:55:10 IceBrodie at least teleport home works.
Nov 10 18:55:30 Cw bush you did meet hamlet
Nov 10 18:56:19 BabaYama http://www.libsecondlife.org/images/libsl/stealing.jpg
Nov 10 18:56:24 bushing oh shit someone jsut tired to talk to me in SL
Nov 10 18:56:26 bushing gotta sign off
Nov 10 18:56:50 Cw heh'
Nov 10 18:57:25 bushing that was a close one
Nov 10 18:58:02 Cw so this is something that observes an object, recording it prim by prim + texture, then reconstructs identical new object?
Nov 10 18:58:57 BabaYama we should send a press release to all the SL news agencies with humorous h4x0r talk about all the shiz we can do with libSL to steal and cheat
Nov 10 18:59:12 Cw this just in: pwnd
Nov 10 18:59:55 BabaYama hehe
Nov 10 18:59:57 BabaYama wait
Nov 10 18:59:59 Cw dear adam reuters: pwnd! sincerely, #libsl
Nov 10 19:00:14 BabaYama first we need to get a bot that can duplicate all the attachments on a furry and wear them
Nov 10 19:00:46 Cw shouldn't some furry have to code that?
Nov 10 19:00:53 BabaYama ;0
Nov 10 19:01:03 BabaYama no we will just pretend it's for stealing silly hats
Nov 10 19:01:08 BabaYama but it works for furries too
Nov 10 19:01:19 BabaYama oh and prim hair
Nov 10 19:01:23 BabaYama right off your head
Nov 10 19:01:26 Cw is it running right now?
Nov 10 19:01:29 BabaYama ;0
Nov 10 19:01:30 BabaYama soon
Nov 10 19:02:20 BabaYama ahah
Nov 10 19:02:57 Lancej I'm running the bot right now at the libsl HQ, trying to fix rotation.
Nov 10 19:03:04 BabaYama the bot should just teleport around to every sim stealing attachments and apperaances and storing them in folders
Nov 10 19:03:17 BabaYama then we will have all kinds of great demo materials
Nov 10 19:04:12 * IceBrodie files the DMCA paperwork now on her AV...
Nov 10 19:04:15 BabaYama hah
Nov 10 19:04:46 BabaYama "why would you create something like that?" I think we have an obligation to do it ;0
Nov 10 19:04:59 BabaYama just so there are no misconceptions about it
Nov 10 19:05:07 jhurliman i think it will promote uniqueness
Nov 10 19:05:30 BabaYama HAH
Nov 10 19:05:44 BabaYama it would be fun to compare the number of identical shapes
Nov 10 19:05:48 BabaYama ;0
Nov 10 19:05:51 BabaYama and hair
Nov 10 19:06:03 BabaYama and all that ;0
Nov 10 19:06:17 jhurliman if everyone is able to easily become anyone else with the press of a button, then it's not cool to be someone else. people will want to create their own avatars, or modify existing ones to tweak them to their preferences instead of buying the boxed version (no mod) and dealing with it
Nov 10 19:06:33 Belaya Y'know, as amusing as I find the clone bot -- rubbing that in everyone's face is seriously negative publicity, Baba. It's not wise.
Nov 10 19:06:48 jhurliman so someone is able to steal a furry outfit and learn how the creator built it. OH NOES LEARNING!
Nov 10 19:06:50 BabaYama Belaya, yes
Nov 10 19:06:50 Lancej I wonder how long it would take to have it travel to every sim and copy every object.
Nov 10 19:06:52 BabaYama yes it's very wise
Nov 10 19:06:59 Belaya Heh, your funeral.
Nov 10 19:07:10 BabaYama It's not supposed to be good publicity
Nov 10 19:07:17 Cw it's got to be done
Nov 10 19:07:27 BabaYama damn straight Cw
Nov 10 19:07:33 Cw someone's got to teach prokofy what's going on here
Nov 10 19:07:38 BabaYama hah
Nov 10 19:07:38 Cw er, the community, i meant
Nov 10 19:07:54 BabaYama they all have the same level of understanding ;0
Nov 10 19:08:22 BabaYama prokofy isnt some unique idiot.. she is just loud and proclaimes her ignorance to the world
Nov 10 19:08:34 Belaya Just because you've had assurances from LL at one point doesn't mean they'll be there the next day. You should know that one by now.
Nov 10 19:08:48 BabaYama Belaya, i could care less at this point what assurances LL gave us ;0
Nov 10 19:08:50 Belaya Still, I was amused when I saw Hubbard the other night.
Nov 10 19:08:51 Cw well said belaya
Nov 10 19:09:08 Cw still, expecting privacy in a virtual world, by now,
Nov 10 19:09:13 Cw ......

In all fairness, it should be noted that after this chat log was exposed to public view, LibSL responded and ejected BabaYama from their membership, along with at least one other non-contributor who was supporting Baba's misuse of the code that LibSL created. They will also no longer take just any new member 'off the street' and allow them full access to their code libraries.

I still don't trust the LibSL crew very much, and I have been an outspoken and very vocal critic of their irresponsible behavior. But I will give them credit for at least trying to clean house among their own ranks, in the wake of this disaster. It's a good step in the right direction.

If they had been truely ethical, they would have disciplined those people as soon as they became aware of it and before it became public knowledge. Anything after the fact is just CYA.

We've seen this, so lets both move on.

A new level of higher professionalism is needed by everybody.

This is a decent start, but I know we can do better.

I want to see some really masterful, intricate spin, and I believe in you guys. I know you can do it. Remember: we know LibSL cheerfully gave griefers everywhere the tools to steal from us, and we know they provide no meaningful benefit. Now we also have them quoted as laughing about it.

Your mission is to convince us that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Let's see some real effort!

baba is now the new leader of the group though, and the apology post is missing from their website.

All I'm gonna do is to ask you to not label people in general. No need to ruin people's reputation that have done sincere work. Mainly, people that are not even involved with libsl.

This has become worse than CopyBot.

I regard these attempts at a witch hunt to cause much more damage. This mockery ruins people's reputation. This mockery ruins people ability to sell. It seriously damages the economy worse.

No, I don't want to see an intricate spin. I want to see this and all forums like this witch hunt attempt to be locked or deleted.

That's precious.

Which witch? Whom am I hunting?

All I did was post a chat log. Are you claiming that it is falsified? Or is telling the truth witch hunting now?

You'll notice I named no names (although they named themselves in the chat log, of course). So again, how am I engaging in a witch hunt? Do you know what the term "witch hunt" means?

This thread was not posted with good intentions. AKA Trolling

Locked.