Group Liability

Pardon my ignorance (don't you hate when people start that way?!) but ...

In my transactions history, I noticed for the first time a $4L charge for something called "Group Liability." What is that? Which group? Who gets the money? I don't own land, but I do "lease" a big parcel in a private estate.

Thanks in advance for the info!

In all probability, the group owner has left "Group Accounting" turned on for everyone in the group. Any land the group owns and is listed in places is charged a $30L a week fee. This fee is divided among all that have group accounting abilities. The money goes to LL.

The transaction history should tell you which group is causing the deduction.

hmm ... the transaction entry says "Destination: (my group)" meaning, I guess, my own group's name is the destination for the $4L.

So the fee was paid by me to my group? Does my group have money? Where is it kept?

Sorry, but this is all a mystery to me.

it would be paid to the group but the group pays LL so you are the front and middle man for the 4 lindens

Every avatar that is included in the group accounting pays out of their L balance every week for parcel listings. So if you pay 4L, that is your individual share toward the parcel listing(s).

when you join a group, are you made aware that you are part of the accounting process? can you add yourself to a group, and be responsible for it's financial issues without approving auto withdraws?

You are only made aware of it if the owner tells you up front or if you check the group tab for land owned (that is in places) and if the "group accounting" ability is checked.

Basically there are only two financial issues for groups. First is the division of land sales proceeds among those with group accounting. Second is paying for the Places ads, 30L/wk per plot listed. This 30/wk is what gets most people, it is divided among all group members.

so wait.... if you are in a "group-accounting" group, you are liable for the fees, but you are also a beneficiary of the proceeds of any land sales associated with that group?

is this why people are constantly trying to add people to their group? to trick them into the fees and then evicting them from the group prior to a sale?

That's one form of the scams, yes.

Others are to simply gain large numbers and leave them in the group, hoping the people don't notice the 1L$ or so missing every month.

Most are honest mistakes due to the complex (perhaps overly so) group management system.

The big thing here is that there is no control by the group member. imo, the member should have to "accept" being included into the Liability section. Just like giving debit perms to objects. However, I also think people should be able to take away debit perms and liabilities on a per case basis. To protect group owners, there should be a notice sent of members "opting out" of liability as well as the option to set the group to "eject" members if they "opt out" (after warning the member via a popup, of course).

This is one of those things that LL is leaving lay because it will involved a bit of ~work~ *gasp* to correct. Not a lot of hard work, and I think the coding of it would be moderate. It's looking at all the options and effects of options that will take the most time/effort.

The scams involved are simply fromt he fact that when you introduce humankind into the equation, you also bring in greed, and the [insert approriate insult here] people that scam stand out because they are such lowlifes. Like seeing the rotten apple in the bushel.

~Jessy

Permissions can also change unexpectedly. I recently started selling land from one of my groups, so I double checked the permissions. When the groups were created, only the owners had the accounting permission for liablilities and dividends. Approximately a year later, all 3 of my groups had that permission enabled for Everyone. I'm the only one that would have had the permission to change that, and I didn't do it. It would be a very good idea for everyone to check the groups their in to see what the permissions are. Especially groups you've started. I really doubt that there are many groups trying to scam for the $30L land listing fees. Any groups that have you paying that are probably doing it by accident.

Yes, you do gain proceeds form land sales, if the group accounting is turned on for you when the proceeds are paid out.


The Forum Cartel does have the group accounting turned on for everyone. We have one plot posted in places. So you may have a 1L charge every once in awhile. But if we were to ever sell the land, you would receive your cut from the proceeds. If anyone thinks we are scamming them for the 1L, they can IM me and I will pay the freaking thing back to them.