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Keeping the Web Safe For the Kids

Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
05-30-2008 10:22
In the thread about child avatars and the upcoming SL birthday party festivities, Atashi wrote a good post. I wanted to discuss it, but felt that it should be in its own thread.

Here's what she said:
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Well, I'm not sure what Kirk is pushing is any worse than what Schumer is pushing.

From: someone

Kirk's:
H.R. 5319 [109th]: Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006

7/26/2006--Passed House amended.

Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006 - Amends the Communications Act of 1934 to require schools and libraries that receive universal service support to enforce a policy that: (1) prohibits access to a commercial social networking website or chat room unless used for an educational purpose with adult supervision; and (2) protects against access to visual depictions that are obscene, child pornography, or harmful to minors. Allows an administrator, supervisor, or other authorized person to disable such a technology protection measure during use by an adult, or by minors with adult supervision, to enable access for educational purposes.
Directs the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to: (1) issue a consumer alert regarding use of the Internet by child predators and the potential dangers to children because of such use, including the potential dangers of commercial social networking websites and chat rooms; and (2) establish a website resource of information for parents, teachers, school administrators, and others regarding potential dangers posed by the use of the Internet by children.


From: someone

Schumers:
S. 431: Keeping the Internet Devoid of Sexual Predators Act of 2007

1/30/2007--Introduced.

Keeping the Internet Devoid of Sexual Predators Act of 2007 or the KIDS Act of 2007 - Amends the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act to require a convicted sex offender to: (1) provide for inclusion in the National Sex Offender Registry any electronic mail address, instant message address, or other similar identifier used to communicate over the Internet; and (2) keep such information current.
Requires jurisdictions that maintain information about sex offenders to exempt from public disclosure any electronic mail address, instant message address, or other similar Internet identifier used by a sex offender.
Requires the Attorney General to maintain a
Amends the federal criminal code to impose a fine and/or prison term: (1) of up to 10 years for failure by any sex offender to provide information required by this Act; and (2) of up to 20 years for age misrepresentation with the intent to use the Internet to engage in criminal sexual conduct with a minor. [?QUOTE]

Personally I feel a bit better about our schools and libraries working harder to safeguard children than I do about a "system to allow commercial social networking websites to compare their databases of users to the Internet identifiers of persons in the National Sex Offender Registry. Exempts such websites from civil liability if compliant with the requirements of this Act. " And if you think that S.431 doesn't effect SL you're dreaming.
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Here's my reply:

Huh.

Atashi, I see it the other way around. It looks like S.431 would address the problem with pinpoint accuracy...if a person is a known sex offender, his/her contact info gets flagged as such.

H.R 5319 is much more diffuse and open to interpretation.

The civil liberties folks will scream that measures like S.431 violate the rights of these people. I say, bring back the scarlet A. Sex offenders ought to be branded.
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Lindal Kidd
Atashi Yue
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
05-30-2008 10:28
I disagree, the updated bill (H.R. 1120) specifically targets educational institutions:

From: someone
2/16/2007--Introduced.

Deleting Online Predators Act of 2007 - Amends the Communications Act of 1934 to require schools and libraries that receive universal service support to enforce a policy that: (1) prohibits access to a commercial social networking website or chat room unless used for an educational purpose with adult supervision; and (2) protects against access to visual depictions that are obscene, child pornography, or harmful to minors. Allows an administrator, supervisor, or other authorized person to disable such a technology protection measure during use by an adult, or by minors with adult supervision, to enable access for educational purposes.
Directs the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to: (1) issue a consumer alert regarding use of the Internet by child predators and the potential dangers to children because of such use, including the potential dangers of commercial social networking websites and chat rooms; and (2) establish a website resource of information for parents, teachers, school administrators, and others regarding potential dangers posed by the use of the Internet by children.


S. 431 is much broader:

From: someone
Requires the Attorney General to maintain a system to allow commercial social networking websites to compare their databases of users to the Internet identifiers of persons in the National Sex Offender Registry. Exempts such websites from civil liability if compliant with the requirements of this Act.


ANY commercial social networking website. No mention of kids here at all, none.
FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
05-30-2008 10:35
I am all for protecting real life children from real dangers.
Yet there shouldn't be real children here its is for adults only here.
And just could imagine the problems if there really was.
Example AOL games it is open to everyone.
There more danger for sexual predators trolling the room for children there
then here because it's open for everyone.
Reason why I know it my partner in real life was just in one of the game rooms
recently and there was several looking for children and extremely interested if
a child enter the room.
Maybe it was uncover type work like on catch the predator but it was really creepy
for someone to sit in game room asking people if they have children, etc and
very interested in talking to children privately when they came in the room.
Maybe it wasn't anything improper going on but who knows.
While there might be child avatars and players who aren't here for sex still it is nice this
is adult only space.
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
05-30-2008 10:45
I take your meaning, Atashi, about the House bill only applying to school library systems and such.

But given that, I'd ask, what good is it? How many kids are gonna access porn from the school library?!

What I meant about the Senate bill being "specific" is that it targets in on individuals identified as sex offenders. I think we SHOULD be able to see that about people.

And I agree that it WOULD affect all service providers...which in my mind makes it a lot more effective than a bill that merely makes an already squeaky-clean place (a library computer) a tiny bit squeakier.
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Lindal Kidd
Brann Georgia
Spits infinitives
Join date: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1,441
05-30-2008 11:18
Requiring the pervs to provide their email address? Takes about five minutes to get a fresh one.

Let's nip part of the problem in the bud - castration for proven child molesters. That'll help get their mind off their peckers and on to more wholesome activities. Quit coddling the perverts.

I don't oppose further restrictions on social networking on school computers. Kids are there to learn, not to find out what your sock choice has to say about your personality and other inane Facebook timewasters.
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Atashi Yue
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
05-30-2008 11:26
My original post was in response to the idiotic "I blame all Republicans" comment made earlier in the thread.

Quite obviously, it's not just Republicans that support these type bills as any search for "sexual predator bills congress" using any search engine will prove.

That said, Kirk's bill is in many ways less intrusive than that of Schumer seeing as it pinpoints libraries and schools, where Schumers covers all use of "social networking" sites.
Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
05-30-2008 11:32
As much as I loathe Schumer, the legislation under discussion seems pretty clearly distinct in that the Senate bill only affects convicted sex offenders. Or am I missing the point?

That's not to say that it's actually intended to have any real positive impact. It's clearly just pandering to the hysteria, too. But it seems more circumscribed in the demons it conjures.
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Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
05-30-2008 11:40
I'm all for firing kids out of cannons but this "for the childeren" thing is getting to be a joke ggrr

Most of these guys are,on both sides, just scum
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Atashi Yue
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Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
05-30-2008 11:41
From: Qie Niangao
As much as I loathe Schumer, the legislation under discussion seems pretty clearly distinct in that the Senate bill only affects convicted sex offenders. Or am I missing the point?

That's not to say that it's actually intended to have any real positive impact. It's clearly just pandering to the hysteria, too. But it seems more circumscribed in the demons it conjures.


I think both bills have merits. More parental education on how to safeguard their children is good (Kirk), a database of sexual predators is good (Schumer, though I fail to see HOW they will implement this).

What bothers me about Schumers is this:

From: someone
Exempts such websites from civil liability if compliant with the requirements of this Act.

Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
05-30-2008 12:06
I think what that clause is trying to do is keep the following sorts of events from happening...

"Convicted Sex Offender Sues Yahoo Over Right To Privacy"
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Lindal Kidd
Atashi Yue
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Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
05-30-2008 12:09
From: Lindal Kidd
I think what that clause is trying to do is keep the following sorts of events from happening...

"Convicted Sex Offender Sues Yahoo Over Right To Privacy"


You think. What I think and what Congress actually does tends to differ greatly.
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
05-30-2008 12:15
From: Brann Georgia
... Let's nip part of the problem in the bud - castration for proven child molesters. That'll help get their mind off their peckers and on to more wholesome activities. Quit coddling the perverts. ....
This is the one place where I am most adament about the death penalty. Without their peckers, they would simply abuse kids some other way. I personally believe in absolutely no mercy at all for them. Child molesters are truly sick individuals and statistics show that they are really not capable of reform and they have the highest recidivism rate of all criminals.

And think of all the money we could save by not constantly monitoring them and trying to reform them and putting them back in prison over and over again.
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ConductorX Nieuport
NO LONGER RELEVANT
Join date: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 86
05-30-2008 12:29
From: Brann Georgia

Let's nip part of the problem in the bud - castration for proven child molesters. That'll help get their mind off their peckers and on to more wholesome activities. Quit coddling the perverts.


Brann, I think you are letting them off too lightly.


Of course when have we ever seen the government do anything right? I spent nine long years working for Uncle Sam and I am totally amazed that any work got done. Everything was buried in paper work and CYA teams.

I protected my children from porn both on the TV and Internet. On the TV I used a device called the remote control and the off button. The only computer in the house with internet access was in the living room in full view of everyone.

I don't trust the government to protect my children. I don't trust them to have my social security check ready when I reach 65. The only job I want the government to do is defend us in the event of attack and deliver the mail. With all the arm chair quarter backs we have in congress the government can't even defend us properly. They do a fair job with my mail delivery.

"CX"
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Conifer Dada
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Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
05-30-2008 12:33
The problem with capital punishment is that there are always going to be a few innocent people who end up paying the ultimate price. That is why I'm opposed to it.

Better to sling offenders in a jail that's a living hell. Then, at least if they are found later to be innocent, there's something that can be salvaged. I don't believe in being soft on criminals in either RL or SL, but I find the idea of an irreversible judicial error chilling.

I came to SL from Britain, which, like the rest of the EU, doesn't have capital punishment. What surprises me about the USA is that some states have the death penalty and others don't. Surely something that important should be decided on a federal level for the whole country.
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Brenda Connolly
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05-30-2008 12:38
From: Conifer Dada
The problem with capital punishment is that there are always going to be a few innocent people who end up paying the ultimate price. That is why I'm opposed to it.

Better to sling offenders in a jail that's a living hell. Then, at least if they are found later to be innocent, there's something that can be salvaged. I don't believe in being soft on criminals in RL or SL, but I find the idea of an irreversible judicial error chilling.

That is the only reason I would be hesitatnt to use it, cases where there is any doubt. Thanks to rechnology there are fewer instances, but best to err on the side of caution. And I agree, for the hinous offenses, Prison should not be a nice place. There is a time where Punishment must come before any possible rehabilitation.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
05-30-2008 12:48
From: Conifer Dada
The problem with capital punishment is that there are always going to be a few innocent people who end up paying the ultimate price. That is why I'm opposed to it.

Better to sling offenders in a jail that's a living hell. Then, at least if they are found later to be innocent, there's something that can be salvaged. I don't believe in being soft on criminals in either RL or SL, but I find the idea of an irreversible judicial error chilling.

I came to SL from Britain, which, like the rest of the EU, doesn't have capital punishment. What surprises me about the USA is that some states have the death penalty and others don't. Surely something that important should be decided on a federal level for the whole country.

No,those decisions should be left up to the individual States, inmy opinion. A big Centralized Government was totally against what the founders intended, and sadly it is in danger of becoming a reality more an more each year. I believe the States should govern it's citizens as much as possible with as little Federal interference as possible.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
05-30-2008 12:59
From: LittleMe Jewell
This is the one place where I am most adament about the death penalty. Without their peckers, they would simply abuse kids some other way. I personally believe in absolutely no mercy at all for them. Child molesters are truly sick individuals and statistics show that they are really not capable of reform and they have the highest recidivism rate of all criminals.

And think of all the money we could save by not constantly monitoring them and trying to reform them and putting them back in prison over and over again.


I agree to a point, but there has to be evidence. None of this "recovered memory" crap, no coaching by social workers, none of this "my word against yours". There have been too many cases of over zealous prosecutors going on witch hunts that later get over turned, usually in daycare and divorce cases.

But yeah, when there is physical evidence I have no problem sending child molesters to the chair or needle how ever the case may be.
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
05-30-2008 13:06
From: Chris Norse
I agree to a point, but there has to be evidence. None of this "recovered memory" crap, no coaching by social workers, none of this "my word against yours". There have been too many cases of over zealous prosecutors going on witch hunts that later get over turned, usually in daycare and divorce cases.

But yeah, when there is physical evidence I have no problem sending child molesters to the chair or needle how ever the case may be.
Oh gawd yes - definitely physical evidence before giving the ultimate punishment. Our government and child services divisions are not capable of making any proper judgements on their own.

And maybe, just maybe, if our prisons really were a true hell and there was no chance of the bastards getting out, then I would say to throw them in there to suffer for many many years. Unfortunately, our system likes to coddle the offenders and punish the victims, more times than not. Not to mention their tendency to constantly pass useless legislation that seldom really does any good but lets the politicians claim to the ignorant that they have done their best to fight the problem.
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Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it?
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Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on.
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Incony Hathaway
Registered User
Join date: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 235
05-30-2008 14:03
If one kills an innocent person.. who is guilty..? and who should face the death sentence?
" Sorry, i made a mistake" does not absolve anyone from judgement. how many innocent folks deaths, does one want to be remembered for? no prizes for heroes. gut feeling should not be the law i think.

"Unfortunately, our system likes to coddle the offenders and punish the victims, more times than not. Not to mention their tendency to constantly pass useless legislation that seldom really does any good but lets the politicians claim to the ignorant that they have done their best to fight the problem.
Today 07:59 PM "

something i hope i am never remembered for believing as the truth, and i hope no one ever assumes me ignorant or devoid of reason. Innocent until proven guilty..
i am not judged by anyone until then.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
05-30-2008 14:12
The term "Sex Offender" is too broad, especially in the scope of the federal system incorporating state laws.

In many states .. it is possible to become a registered sex offender over very simple offenses that have nothing to do with sexually molesting anyone, let alone children.

Such as ..

Public nudity, including Urinating in public.

Exotic dancers who dance too close to their customers.

Sexual contact between consenting teenagers where one is over 18 and the other under.

If the law were about convicted Child Sexual abusers and rapists .. it would be different .. but they are going to get a lot of people who never abused children or molested anyone.

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Someone who say .. flashed her boobs while drunk one night on a college campus and got arrested .. should not be tracked by the federal government as a potential child predator.

Don't people have rights anymore?

How about these ..

Amendment 8 - Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
05-30-2008 14:36
From: Colette Meiji
The term "Sex Offender" is too broad, especially in the scope of the federal system incorporating state laws.

In many states .. it is possible to become a registered sex offender over very simple offenses that have nothing to do with sexually molesting anyone, let alone children.

Such as ..

Public nudity, including Urinating in public.

Exotic dancers who dance too close to their customers.

Sexual contact between consenting teenagers where one is over 18 and the other under.

If the law were about convicted Child Sexual abusers and rapists .. it would be different .. but they are going to get a lot of people who never abused children or molested anyone.

-------------------------

Someone who say .. flashed her boobs while drunk one night on a college campus and got arrested .. should not be tracked by the federal government as a potential child predator.

Don't people have rights anymore?

How about these ..

Amendment 8 - Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


I agree totally. Sex offender has become much too broad. But it goes along with the trend to make everything a crime, so that anyone can pretty much be arrested at any time for something. Easier to keep a compliant population if they are all afraid of going to prison or losing every thing because they broke one of the "rules".
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-30-2008 14:55
From: Chris Norse
I agree totally. Sex offender has become much too broad. But it goes along with the trend to make everything a crime, so that anyone can pretty much be arrested at any time for something. Easier to keep a compliant population if they are all afraid of going to prison or losing every thing because they broke one of the "rules".


Indeed, I know a couple that are getting their records cleaned up now for things they did as teenagers that got them listed.


Schools already filter what students do, or if they don't they need a swift kick to the head.

There are so many ways to game the verification services it's insane to think an offender can not get around it (check out identity theft information)

edit:
And the only thing that keeps kids 'safe' in this world is to lock them in a rubber room till they turn 18.

You can prepare your kids, and do your best to monitor their activities. But you can not stand by and let them do whatever while trying to ban what may be harmful to them. It doesn't prepare them for the really real world... it's also why so many wind up with having to register as offenders...
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Peggy Paperdoll
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Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
05-30-2008 16:02
Yeah, lets cut the peckers off all the child molesters.......but what if that molester has no pecker? Seems Florida is full of peckerless child molesters. :)
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-30-2008 16:05
From: Peggy Paperdoll
Yeah, lets cut the peckers off all the child molesters.......but what if that molester has no pecker? Seems Florida is full of peckerless child molesters. :)


Yeah I know a couple that are both married and registered sex offenders because in an odd thing they were able to get married at one age (both were 17)... but consuming the marriage put them as sex offenders because someone reported underage sex at the hotel.
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Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!

9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo