IS this a re-sit script being used?

I have been monitoring camping chairs recently and have noticed something that I would like your opinion on. One of the camping benches that I monitor ejects people off the bench after 10 mins and pays them 10L. As you can imagine a crowd gathers around to try and be the next person to sit on the bench. Some of the people are very fast and I assume it has a lot to do with video cards and your FPS, not to forget to mention good reflexes.

But recently I have been wondering if a resit program is being used? Not because the avatars are sitting very fast (they are) but if they get beaten to the bench by someone, these avatars usually go into a sitting position. I have tried the bench myself several times and I can't get my avatar to go into that position. I am always ejected into a standing postion. LL has confirmed that there is no bug but has suggested the script in the bench could also be a problem. The script has been check and there is nothing wrong with the bench. The area is a No Push, No Built, No Script area so I doubt some third party is doing something.

So, The only thing that I can conclude is that the person is using a sit-script type program that is forcing his/her avatar into a sit position and is not aware that it has been beaten to the pose ball.

What do yo think?

JulieAnne

There's no way for a script to cause an avatar to actually sit on an object. (A bot might be programmed to do that, and might plausibly be able to detect an empty sit target faster than anybody else, but it isn't a script performing an actual "sit".)

On the other hand, I can imagine a particularly hyperactive AO catching the "sit" state of the avatar before the system notices that it can't actually sit there, and then taking a while to realize that it's not in the sit state anymore.

Their AOs could also warp your viewer's perception of what's really going on. Say that the sit animation is in force for only microseconds but the AO decides to use a not-yet-seen standing animation when the avatar is unseated. Your viewer will be stuck playing the sit animation for that avatar the whole time the new stand animation is being downloaded (and the poor sim has to push that animation down to every camping agent in viewing distance).

i know which area you are talking about.
yes, some of the avatars on that bench are fast, very fast.
but there are more who are using a libsl created bot program.
some of the avatars stay in the seating position (stuck animation) even after they are ejected fom the bench, ive had this happen to me as well.
there are plenty ways to identify who is using a libsl bot created program.
because of the libsl bot created program being available freely on the internet, the population has jumped significantly wherever there are places to camp.
lately, it seems if you want to get a camp spot, you would be better off using a bot to get that spot or you would have little chance of getting it once that avatar is unseated from it, hence another reason why everyone is using bots.
those using bots have gotten much smarter now as to try an avoid being detected, but even if a bot gets banned, its easy to create another account and register the program to the new account name, just take a look at the ban list for that place or any place that has camping, it will give you an idea on how many bots have been banned.
if it was a sincere avatar, im quite sure they would be unbanned, but people running bots are too chicken shit to message why they got banned.

Amazing what people will go through for 4 cents.

If they are bots automatically sitting, how is that different from 'real' avatars. A bot controlled avatar will game the traffic system just as readily as a human controlled avatar.

If you did want to confuse the bots, you could script some sort of Captcha type system into the camping chair. Ask the person sitting down a simple question that changes often. What color is the sky? What is 2+2. Why are you wasting your time sitting here?

Actually, I think it works out to 3.7 Cents US *giggles*.
I agree that a bot creates as much traffic as a person. That is not the reason for the post. The reason for the post is to understand why some avatars are ejected into a sitting postion after being beat to the pose ball as compared to some that are ejected into a standing postion. If the reason is because a program is being used, I would like to understand that and how that program works?

JulieAnne

That kind of thing can happen if a script starts animations/poses, then forcibly unsits the avatar without taking the time to stop them. A lot of the park bench style camping chairs seem to have issues with extra sittable prims, maybe there was a script added in an attempt to deal with that?

Thanks, as I mentioned in the first post I'm very sure its not the bench. When I montor the bench this only happens for a select number of avatars and always the same avatars. I own a few resit programs that work well but not one of them dubilcate the forced sit animation that I see. To make matters more difficult, these "forced sit" avatars will stay in that postion for as long as I'm there (up to an hour). Which tells me that there is not a person at the keyboard that is stuck or they would just relog.

JulieAnne

So... ... you're a bot? Or, what are these programs doing, and where are they running??

Well that really has nothing to do with my question. You can of course start your own thread or just send me a message. If your not responding to the original post, please don't change the subject.

JulieAnne

10L per 10 Min = 720L per day per bot, your home pc could run say 8 of them 24/7

8 * 720 5760L per day * 31 days = 178560L per month = 613USD a month.


3.7 cents add's up fast

But, but... it was *in* your original question, and that's why I tried to answer it (as I understood it) @#2 above: You wanted to know if a sit-script was being used, and I said there was no such thing available to in-world scripting (not that scripters wouldn't love it if there were).

I have nothing against bots, I'm just trying to understand what the question is, exactly. If it's about what kind of programs a bot might use, instead of what kind of scripts an avatar might use, then it's a very different topic from what I understood it to be. If that's the question, then sure, a bot could just keep playing a sit animation on itself. I doubt it would offer any advantage for getting the camping spot the next time, but it's certainly possible to do. For that matter, an avatar could populate their AO with the built-in "sit" anim as the stand, for example; it would be weird, but it would have the effect you describe.

Still doesn't answer my question but.... the bench only has 3 spots so I'm not sure where the other 5 bots would go? Second, as I mentioned, there is usually a crowd around there and a lot of the users have fast PC's and reflexes so avatars don't last long on the bench unless you monitor them so if one ava got on there 10 times in a night (and not consecutively) I would be surprized. Anyways, still looking for an answer to the original question.

JulieAnne

I noticed in croweded areas like OI and HIP, animations don't stop like they should. People continue to type after the chat has displayed, or keep walking in place. If the people are away from the keyboard, it could be something as simple as that.

OK, I understand. I guess I'm the confused one. Thanks for your answer. I understand that there is no sit-scripts ingame that are available!

So, what type of programs can a bot might use to simulate what I have discribed then? I do understand that no camping 'program' MAY re-sit you faster?

JulieAnne

Maybe, but as I described these ava stay in place a long time and do not relog. You would think that if it was an just an animation problem, the user would relog if they were at the keyboard playing. Its like no one is at the keyboard monitoring them!

Animations can change but your client will not necessarily receive them. When the LL support people were certifying that these scripts were free of all possible bugs, did they also confirm that the avatars in question were still running sit animations?

Using libsecondlife, a bot (or even a human, if they use a custom SLProxy, but why would you) can automatically detect and sit faster than any human could react.

Since Second Life sits avatars on object basically through a special-case link, when the avatar currently on the poseball unsits, an ObjectUpdate packet is sent to the bot (and all avatars present) to notify all observers of the new link status of the object. If the UUID of the object designated by this update packet matches one of the objects being monitored, presumably all camping chairs in the local area, the bot simply calls Client.Self.RequestSit(poseball.ID, LLVector3.Zero) and sits. This takes milliseconds.

Yes, that is quite likely, actually. There are easily accessible camping bots all over the net, Google Code host a few such projects for instance, and they've been around for quite some time.

If they are getting stuck in any particular pose, it's also quite possible that they are a bot that has not been coded to play the standard "Stand" anims, or any of the other "body noise" animations, so they just stay in whatever anim they were last in.

This crossed-out (as completed?) item in a to-do list:

"Animation [Needs to add animation stop agent update -- Jesse]"

at http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/TODO suggests there could be something changed or changing about how animations are stopped in different versions of libsl (and thereby, SLProxy) based bots. (I'm not up to reading the subversion entries to try to figure out just what, though.)

Kool, that is what I was looking for ... Thanks Robby and Qie.

I appreciate your help, JulieAnne

detecting a bot is quite easy.

1) they never stand straight (always bending at the knees) and they never have a voice icon above them.(voice alone is not an indicator as many people havent activated voice)

2) they dont turn their heads when the mouse is moving.(only if no AO is being used, some AO's override this action, some dont)

3)under edit > preferences > adv graphics > outfit composite limit, dialing this down to the lowest number will also reveal a bot in a all "grey" form except for prim attachments as libsl bot programs dont upload their avatar textures.(not a 100% reliable method as some people are on poor internet connections)

the only 100% reliable method is seeing an avatar bending at the knees (same effect as holding the page down key) all the time.(until that too is revised in future versions)

all the other methods are supplemental to aid in detection and generally narrow down the result, since the development on libsl bot programming has progressed to the point that the authors are realizing these flaws in their programs and are revising them to updated versions making it more difficult to detect a bot.

users of these bots are also getting smarter, making profiles, adding groups and attachment prims.

they are monitoring the chat, im's and dialogs remotely and can respond/leave if the need arises.

how do i know all this ?

simple, i own quite the number of different bot programs available through SL and on the web.

i have debugged, tested and torn these applications apart to reveal how they work on the inside and even coded a few myself.(SL client source code is freely available on the web)

with my current method, i could easily say that a popular money camping sim ratio of bots versus avatars is at least 1 in 4, thats 1 in every 4 avatars is a bot.