Simowner abandon Sim

Hi everybody,

Does anybody know what happends if you own land off a sim owner and he will abandon the sims he bought off LL? Will LL clean out the sims than?

I know this is a strange question but can't find any answers on it...

In short:

I bought land from a simowner in november 2007, cost 20K
Payed every month my tier, no worries
Last month I got a notice he was moving the sims to open spaces, better for busniss
He did 2 off the 13, as far I know
Yesterday a message, 'cos residents didn't pay their tier, he couldn't stay in SL
Will abandon all the sims a few days before tierdue was there, he was checking with LL if this is possible.

From there no news...

Had anybody this before?

if the sim is abandoned you lose the land
I would grab my stuff now while I could, before SL closes them down due to being abandoned

If you rented land then you never actually owned it.

No one is under any obligation, neither your landlord nor Linden Lab, to see that you get to "keep" the rental parcel you never /owned/.

Objects would be returned automatically upon the demise of the sim and sent to the object owner's Lost and Found folder.

Unfortunately, you didn't really buy the land. It still belongs to the sim owner until he abandons it, and then it will revert back to LL. As Rha said, about the only thing you can do is to take your property back before LL regains possision of the property.

I have seen folks comment about not getting their items when the sim owner abandons the land and sometimes LL reopens it so folks can go in and get their belongings

so to be safe, rather than sorry, I would personally, just go get my stuff, and if the sim owner does decide to stick around, the stuff can always be put back

just one more reason I will not rent from a private sim, I prefer mainland

you could always see if the simowner is willing to transfer the sims to another estate owner rather then abandon, many of the larger ones can handle the financial risk of restructering underpreforming sims, unfortunatly I don't have enough spare to salvage even one full sim without risking my own sims, an openspace sim I can handle.

What are the other reasons? Just curious since that seems to be the only problem I am aware of on estate land.

If it is "the only " problem, IMO it's a deal-breaking-big problem.

Another example would be the residents dispute, one it's the parcel encroachment: if someone place a prim that comes into your land, you need to ask the sim owner to resolve the issue, you cannot even fill an abuse report to linden lan (you can do it if the parcel is on mainland), so it's up to the owner and it's judgement to resolve the dispute (or do not care at all).
In general any problem (that is not affecting the general TOS) you have on an estate has to pass by the sim owner judgement, so if it's a nice and fair person you are ok, if it's a ****head you need to prep your baggage and move away (eventualy loosing your entry price); while on mainland the rules are (almost) the same everywhere, they are wrote, they can't change by a Governor to another (while the Covenant on an estate may changes any moment).

That can work both ways. When I had my Estate land, I had a responsible landlord, with a very lax Covenant. He was very responsive to dispautes on the Sim, much quicker than LL has shown for the most part. It's a roll of the dice on what type of landlord you get, yes, but it was worth it for me.

What i said: it's all up to the landlord honesty, there's no "wrote rule" that he must respect. In fact we are talking about the risks, not the "normality".

Also, provided it's not a scam where you pay a large some of money upfront, you don't lose much at all by renting.

OK, I trust my estate manager and tend to keep my rental payments paid 2 months in advance, but I only have to make sure I'm current, and can renew weekly. If she ever shut up shop, I'd have to move - but I wouldn't lose any money.

If a mainland sim owner fails to pay their tier, the land is treated as any other land with unpaid tier - returned to Governer Linden ownership, then auctioned. "Abandoned" land is treated the same way.

Private islands can't be abandoned (if you're the owner of a private island, the "abandon land" control disappears!). If the island fee is left unpaid, access to the land will be locked for some period of time (to give them a chance to pay). If they continue not to pay, the island will eventually be completely obliterated - gone from the map - and the computer that was hosting it will be used to host the next island someone buys.

If you are afraid that an island landlord will default on their fees, take copies of everything you have built on your land there. There will probably be no other way of recovering it if the island is locked or removed.

You have no real recourse against a private estate owner from whom you have bought land. They can screw you with impunity. Linden Labs's considers such a situation to be a dispute between residents, in which they will not become involved.

One of the great Second Life pitfalls is the concept of buying land. When someone wants your upfront money, you are "buying" land. When you want to exercise some sort of rights to your land, then you were merely "renting" the land.

I am curious about this comment.

You cant actually "move" sims out of Second Life, can you?

And making the residents move to open sim is kind of like making them move with you to an impoverished third world country.

You can convert a full sim to 4 openspaces and vice versa. I would make residents move to an openspace if it improved their experience - more beach/sailable water, etc.

In response to that question I have another question. And I'm truly being sincere here - this seemed to be a good place to ask it.

I know one can rent on estate land as well as the "buy option & pay monthly tier" which we've already established one really doesn't own.

Why do people then do that instead of just renting the estate land monthly without the upfront cost?

Mostly because it works out cheaper if you plan to hang around for a longer time, on my sims it becomes cheaper to buy/lease then rent after about 24 weeks, it becomes even shorter if you have a buyer of the land when you want to leave.

It's mostly, I'd guess, because it's so hard to find good information about land "sales" in the first place. After seeing that most everywhere, estate land is "sold" and not rented, one might assume that that's the standard way business is done in SL.

Now that I have been ripped-off when "buying" from a private estate owner- losing a few hundred real, US dollars- I realize that it's just not sane to "buy" private estate land at all. But before I got ripped off, every piece of estate land that I looked at was "sale", not rent. I just didn't realize at the time that renting was an option (nor did I appreciate the dangers of "buying" estate.)

Even now that I know that "buying" estate isn't a financially sane thing to do, I have found very few private estate owners who rent (giving ownership control) rather than sell. And the first time I made a transaction to rent such estate land- from a very well-known and respected landlord- the sim from which I rented was closed by the landlord a week later because it wasn't making enough money.

So with that option would the weekly tier/rent by the tenant be less than no upfront cost?

(Thank you for answering btw...have always wondered this *smiles*)

I wouldn't dream of making them move, they can if they want. if 4 tennants having a 4096 plot come to me wanting to switch to an openspace I would order one for them right away.
I would offcourse inform them of the drawback of an openspace sim sharing a processor core with 3 others and offer them estate powers for the sim so the can restart in case one of those other 3 uses more resources then advisable and lag the sim.

Obviusly that would only work if those 4 can trust eachother.

There is a way to make a private island financially stable on a rent-only model. It does work, and there are quite a few landlords here in the forums that make it work. It is not far from mainland rentals.

Sincere answer - there are a few reasons.

a) When you've got a waiting list 200 people long, people are stuffing $L 20k-$L 30k your way and won't take it back, *demanding* land, 30 IM's a day asking when the next region will be coming... finally you get fed up and say: "Fine, you guys pay a nonrefundable fee and I'll get the region, let's do it."

b) There are multimillionaires on the grid who simply could care less. They may already have half a dozen regions of their own but those are desolate, they are bored and don't feel like maintaining a community... but want to be part of one. After talking them out of dropping several thousand USD on you for a few free regions 'tacked on' to your estate, you finally relent and say: okay, here, fund 1/4 region if you want.

c) Some regions really *are* more attractive to be in, for a variety of reasons. Plenty of otherwise okay "pure rental" places, but if the community or theme you specifically want has reasonably low up-front fees... it's probably worth it to you.

Sounds like you would have fun with those landlords offering their placs usually for "sale" for a initial buying price plus monthly tier or optionally allow you to "rent" the same space at a certainly higher monthly price.

I don't really get that concept.