skin makeup options (question)

I have seen places that sell makeup options for skins, how does this work?
are they selling the whole skin or just the head texture?

how does one buy and use just the makeup option?

I ask this because I would like to make some more makeup/head options for the goth skin I just did, but dunno if I have to put it out as a complete skin, or .....

(not in world to hunt some down and check to see what they do)

thanks in advance

It's an entire skin....everything is the same except for the makeup so I imagine they are just using the same basic finished skin in photoshop and then re-doing the face a few times and creating 4-6 entire skins using the various faces/head textures added to the already completed body.

Now.. I must admit I cannot get that technical in photoshop cause I have zero patience for what it takes to do skins & clothes.... but I DO know the porcesses it takes to do it. I would imagine you could do it the way you're explianing...only problem would be you'd have to make the entire skin modify so that one could go in and change just the head texture....which would mean you'd have to sell them as textures since skins are saved as one unit..... each part being put together and saved initially by the creator and then sold as such. I think that would be way to complicated for a lot of folks, especially those just beginning in SL.... 1 skin, select wear...much easier. lol

\

good point

The reason I ask is I tend to sell my skins as a 3 part set, one having no pubic hair, one having the "landing strip" and one having the normal type pubic hair growth.

so if I were to do makeup options, would I do them as basically another skin set of 3 hehe

*shrug*

I guess so, since yes, I agree, for some the process of adding the texture could get confusing.

Thanks for the input

I bought a skin once with a makeup option (forget who made it though). When I went to get another makeup for the skin I got a head texture to apply to the skin. It worked okay but I was new back then and for the price I paid including the skin and makeup I was a little disappointed. But, I'm sure there are others who make skins with makeup options you can buy later that are better than the one I got.

I do like the idea though..........just a little gun shy after my one and only experience.

I suppose if I sold it as just the texture, I could also include an optional makeup session, meaning I would help them do the change if they wanted me to. and of course include a notecard with it so they know how to do it (with a huge big warning to make a copy of the skin before putting on makeup LOL)

I was thinking the texture option would be the simpliest, with copy permission (no need for mod or transfer permissions)

can test it with an alt first (or a friend, if a friend likes goth skins that is)

ok the ol brain is churning, thinking making some for the chola skins I have out there too LOL

ooohhh dear

Pixel Deep does makeup only options for their skins. The makeups are a face texture you apply to the base skin. I think the makeups retail for around 300L each, which is much nicer than paying upwards of 1000L just to change your lipstick!

Like Stephanie mentioned Rha, you might check out the Pixel Deep system. I used her skins for awhile and really liked being able to buy individual make-up packs. They are the head/face only and come with instructions to go into appearance mode, replace the head tattoo on the skins, and rename and save them (her skins are mod).

It solves the problem you describe of having all those make-up options on skins with all the pubic hair options, as you only apply the new make-up to the skin(s) you actually wear. I would love to see more skin creators try out a system like this.

I definitely see where you'd want to minimize the amount of full skins you have to create for a pack, given that you do the hair options. It makes sense to simplify by making the extra makeups in a pack of textures. At this point, having bought so many skins and even tried my hand (which sucks) at making some..... I would have no problem just applying the different head taxtures and naming each new skin myself.
For new folks..again, might be kind of a headache. And, for the buyer....the simpicity of just clicking and wearing an entire skin is probably more appealing. I have tons of multi-makeup skin packs and it's easy as pie just going in and choosing the slate one day and the smokey noir the next and maybe the ruby/freckled the next LOL

Definitely include and instructions notecard if you go the texture route....and honestly, I think the more skilled shoppers wouldn't hesitate to buy the skin packs as texture additions. You're just appealing to a certain portion of the market, that's all.

You're all right. It is a complicated issue to sell makeup options with skins, and at the same time allow customers freedom of choice, and affordability. LL once promised several years ago that they would look into extra texture layers for the avatar, but nothing ever happened. I guess they hit a brick wall (and the technical issues went "splat!". That would have solved almost everything with regard to skins and makeup!

Skinning has evolved in SL over the years as a direct result of this empass (especially around makeup), the vulnerability of textures, and the lax attitude towards IP rights in SL. A lot of makeup exclusive artists have taken up skinning to continue thier work. More skin artists offer makeover options than they did in the past. But, the problem still remains that in order to sell (somewhat) protected and simple to apply textures they have to be baked together and applied to a skin (body part). There may be a few exceptions out there that still sell makeup only textures. They are few and far between these days. It's really not a good business model any more. I used to sell makeup separate from skins because my older skins were installed client side on color layers, not as a body part. That was a perfect solution to the problem 3 years ago. Now, SL is just too big. There are too many people engaged in a black market skin trade now to allow full permission raw TGA files to float around, even with the proper legal documents (TOS agreements and EULA's). Enough people simply ignore them. So, the remaining options are:

1. Sell a huge selection of single (identical skins) with different makeovers.

This costs the designer huge amounts of prims and floor space (not to mention the upload cost of all those demo and full version textures). It may look impressive, but the reality is it's just a bunch of the same skins with slightly different looks on different displays. Even if the skins are L$500-L$800 each, the cost will add up quickly for the customer.

2. Sell skins with a half dozen (or more) makeup options in a "Fat" pack.

This is pricier than selling individual skins with different looks but more affordable than buying single makeover skins for the customer in the long run. It's also more economical for the designer to manage displays. The drawbacks are still texture uploads, freedom of choice (all or nothing for the customers) and demos. It's a lot to manage.

3. Sell makeup as mix and match components and do custom orders.

This is not easy either. Customers need to see what they are getting. Makeup will look different on various skins. Lots of demos have to be uploaded and displayed for each makeup component. It's a lot of work. The big advantage to this method is freedom and affordability. Designers can either charge by the texture, or charge by the job (which is a LOT less than a full priced skin or skin Fat Pack).

4. Sell separate head textures to apply to modifyable skins.

Any time an avatar texture is sold outside a clothing or body part it becomes exponentially easier to illegally extract it (as if it isn't already). I won't go into details. It may be a cost effective method for the customers, but a bad business model for the skin artist. It will come back to haunt.

5. Provide low resolution layered Photoshop files of makeup applied to skin textures.

The details are not all there, but the previewing method would be spot on. Cost is extremely low, no uploads, and minimal store displays. High rez orders would be by request. The drawbacks are the low quality previews and the fact that customers will need to know Photoshop. That probably kills it right there (which is why I don't know of anyone using this method). At least I've mentioned it .

I currently use methods #3 for females and #2 for males. Neither are perfect.

Method #3 is not as simple as buying a premade look. It involves time and an educated choice. It's not for everyone. I employ a full time texture artist that ONLY does makeovers. Mostly we sell textures I have designed for my skins, but we are also open to adding textures that customers give us too (provided they have the legal right to do that with textures they give us), like tattoos.

One of the hidden advantages to this method is that once several looks have been established, they can be added to at a very low cost (i.e. as low as L$200 to add different lip colors with a certain eye shadow or vice versa). We keep all fully baked custom makeovers in a client side database. The initial cost in purchasing a skin is L$2000-L$3000, but is a one time purchase. The cost to add makeup to them is around one tenth that. Several loyal customers probably own more than fifty unique makeover variations on my different skins. The average cost is probably about L$300 per skin.

If anyone wants to read about it:

http://www.secondskinlabs.com/Makeovers/makeovers.html

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I don't think it was technical problems that did it in. At one a point a Linden actually posted in Linden Answers that he saw no reason why it couldn't be included in the next release. Then it got shelved in favor of concentrating on bug fixing and scalability. My guess is that it simply never got picked back up. That such a simple usability issue that severely limits one of the most popular and most used asset types in SL has never been addressed after all this time is just plain negligent.

Not addressing it probably causes more scaling issues than adding layers would. Consider that if you want to sell a skin with a dozen makeup options and four different hair color choices you have to create 48 individual skins and upload all the necessary textures to create all the variants under the current system. If it was layer based that number would be reduced to 1 skin, 4 hair layers, and 12 makeup layers. The number of textures and individual assets created on the asset server would be reduced tremendously. Multiply that by all the different skin and makeup options now in SL and the reduction in the number of needed assets would be astronomical.

Distributing raw textures that the user can swap themselves is a very bad idea unless you really want to see your work in a hundred BIBs within a month. What we need is two skin asset types that are both containers for textures the way the normal skin asset type is now. We need a Base Skin, and a Skin Overlay, and the overlays should be stackable in any order and allow at least a half dozen of them to be worn at one time to facilitate things like tattoos, makeups, hair bases, blemishes, and whatever else people might want to use them for. We could have a system where the products produced by various skin, tatt, and makeup artists could be used together and compliment each other, which would be much better for artists and end users alike. Instead we have a system were everyone has to compete with everyone else directly which has caused massive over-saturation in the skin market, encourages texture ripping, and has devalued the whole marketplace. It's short-sighted in the extreme.

I agree wholeheartedly, and there are a couple of JIRAs suggesting something along these lines:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1449][url=https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1449]https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1449[/url]

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4459][url=https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4459]https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4459[/url]

I will prolly go the route of the customer placing the order then I put together the skin, not quite sure how I will put that out there yet
do not want to put out the actual png texture

I need to think on this one, I do want to try different makeup options for the skins (not just the goth ones)

*sigh*

At this point it's all YEARS old speculation. If it ever came to pass, I think I'd have to go check my window to see if the pigs had started migrating south for the Winter.

I think there certainly would be a huge boost in the skin/makeup/tattoo market, and we would see many more variants introduced. I don't think there would be a huge reduction in assets though. People will just create more assets with more variety, and they won't be as redundant. I already have the assets sitting on my hard drive to layer hundreds of billions of unique makeovers. They sit on my hard drive, though, and only get uploaded when someone requests a specific makeup combination. If I could upload them all under a new system that supports them the way I do, I would.

I agree. I had a 45 minute one on one discussion about a year ago with someone very high up on the food chain at LL about the lack of options around avatar texture layering. I told them flat out that avatar texture layering is a huge bottleneck in creator/customer interaction and in creative options for both sides. They acknowledged that. I spoke. They listened. I'll probably never get another opportunity to do that again.

I did the same thing when I had a one on one because I was asked for opinions regarding a new permissions system about two years ago. I gave my opinion and then used the opportunity to lobby for changes to the skin system. I used the asset reduction angle and thought I had caused a lightbulb to go on, but obviously nothing ever came of it, except that I've never been asked for an opinion since then, hehe.

I'd guess that there are many more residents who would find an extra skin layer much more beneficial (by allowing easier makeup and tattoo options) than the glorious sunsets provided by Windlight. By a wide margin.

Yet Linden Labs threw its resources to the development of Windlight, and has yet to do anything for avatar skin layering despite having been asked for it for several years.

I think it's a bit apples and oranges. The company behind WindLight had already created a WindLight client using the open source viewer code. LL then decided to buy them out. WindLight is all client side.