For anyone expecting any kind of compentsation for the down time... forget it....
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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06-20-2009 19:57
from the TOS From: someone 1.6 Second Life is subject to scheduled and unscheduled service interruptions. All aspects of the Service are subject to change or elimination at Linden Lab's sole discretion. Linden Lab reserves the right to interrupt the Service with or without prior notice for any reason or no reason. You agree that Linden Lab will not be liable for any interruption of the Service, delay or failure to perform, and you understand that except as otherwise specifically provided in Linden Lab's billing policies posted at http://secondlife.com/corporate/billing.php, you shall not be entitled to any refunds of fees for interruption of service or failure to perform. Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as it sees fit in its sole discretion. From the billing policies From: someone 5. Under certain circumstances, you may receive service credit for unscheduled downtime.
You will be eligible to receive Service Credit toward recurring service fees (e.g. monthly account fees, 90 Day account fees, annual account fees, and Land Use Fees) for Unscheduled Downtime. "Unscheduled Downtime" is an unplanned or unscheduled interruption in Service availability for a period of at least twenty-four (24) hours during which you are unable to access the Service. Unscheduled Downtime is measured from the end of the time the Service is 100% unreachable for a period of at least twenty-four (24) hours until Service is once again restored. The following are excluded from the calculation of Unscheduled Downtime: (i) scheduled maintenance downtime; (ii) problems outside of our Service (upstream providers, or your inbound connection) not affecting 100% loss to our Service; (iii) interruptions or failure of Service caused by you or your representatives (including inaccurate configuration, third-party software, abuse or over-utilization of resources, hacked servers, attacks, exploits, or server hardware failures); and (iv) causes beyond Linden Lab's reasonable control and occurring without Linden Lab's fault or negligence, including natural disasters, wars, terrorist acts, riots or other violent upheaval, governmental restrictions and actions, and performance failures of a third party outside Linden Lab's control. The amount of any Service Credit will be based on the pro rata percentage of Unscheduled Downtime during your billing cycle (e.g., if there is 1 day of Unscheduled Downtime in a 30-day month for your monthly account, you will receive a Service Credit for 1/30th of your recurring service fees). Any Service Credit will be credited to you during your next billing cycle.
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar.  They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Paulo Dielli
Symfurny Furniture
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 780
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06-20-2009 20:30
Bummer
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Tarina Sewell
Just Browsing Thank you
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,180
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06-20-2009 20:30
I am of the mind that if they can fix it... so be it......
I mean compensation would be so trivial, a couple bucks? Its not that big of a deal for SL downtime, however... releasing a viewer that renders my SL experience useless is all together another thing....
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Weston Graves
Werebeagle
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,059
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06-20-2009 21:20
I guess it's like when an electric company has a power outage. When I was a free lancer, I didn't get compensated for work lost. I just didn't have to pay for the kilowatts I didn't use during that time.
[Edit: Off topic. Rha - did you lose your signature by not being on the advanced editing? I downgraded just to standard and still have a sig if I want.]
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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06-20-2009 21:45
not sure what you mean weston... I still have a sig on my posts.. *shrug*
as for compensation.. may be only a few bucks to us, but what about people like.. say desmond? who own a lot of sims, those few bucks add up quick
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Windsweptgold Wopat
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
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06-21-2009 06:26
Why should they compensate after all if your in a business dont you think the ppl would come to your shop when the grid is back up?
If you have an event well reschedule bit like in RL if something happens and you cant hold the event .
PPL need to stop thinking of SL as owing them anything for issues that arise ( a power outage is not SLs fault ) When SL is down take the time to catch up on something in RL
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"Mushrooms grow well in BS, trust and honesty do not"
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Milla Alexandre
Milla Alexandre
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,759
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06-21-2009 06:50
Well.....250 regions to go....maybe today wont be a total wash.  But yeah I agree.....LL doesn't have to compensate anyone for anything....The Power company doesn't.....the Cable company doesn't (even when it IS their fault lol). Actually.....I really can't think of any company I pay money to monthly that would compensate for any loss of service or whatever. It just doesn't work that way. On the other hand....if I have things under warrantee....then I do indeed expect to be compensated if something goes awry. Still.....I'm really curious as to what exactly this power outage was......if it was weather related.....or an accident....I wonder where it happened. It would be interesting and maybe even a little bit easier to tolorate if we knew the cause....the how's and why's.  Not that LL has any obligation to tell us.....I'm just curious. |
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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06-21-2009 07:33
There is a big difference betwen what the TOS say, and what the law, and the courts say, as the first case that came up showed quite clearly.
Rock
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Windsweptgold Wopat
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
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06-21-2009 07:38
From: Rock Vacirca There is a big difference betwen what the TOS say, and what the law, and the courts say, as the first case that came up showed quite clearly.
Rock Can you tell me how one can prove they lost "income" due to the outage and if so how much cause unlike RL shops your business is opened 24/7 and no staff required unless your a club and your outlay really is fairly small. When it all comes down to it this is a choice to be in SL and the net is not perfect hell I crash often not because of SL but because of my IP or my phone company. I think ppl need to get a grip so SL is down well go read a book, mow the lawn, watch a movie go play with the kids or take the dog for a walk but stop thinking the world will collapse cause you cant get into SL for a while
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"Mushrooms grow well in BS, trust and honesty do not"
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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06-21-2009 09:05
From: Windsweptgold Wopat Can you tell me how one can prove they lost "income" due to the outage Sales. Projected sales on an average day. In this case, an average Saturday. |
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Yummy Freelunch
rides the short bus
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,247
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06-21-2009 15:25
Well, I have to say..my kitchen is MUCH cleaner now, due to my sim being down. I dont think Ive cleaned it in months, besides dishes..ewwwww..so maybe it wasnt all bad.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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06-21-2009 15:35
From: Tarina Sewell I mean compensation would be so trivial, a couple bucks? Try paying your tier a couple of bucks short. Rock |
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Belle Loll
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 260
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06-21-2009 16:01
I think LL is suffering as much as anyone else in this mess. And if we look at the big picture...they are losing a lot more from this than we are. Not only monetary..but any new people that may be trying to come in for the first time will probably not try again etc. If my dishwasher goes out...I get it repaired under warrenty...but I do not get compensated for the times I could not use it...nor has anyone ever offered to wash the dishes for me Let's just hope this gets figured out...I want my SL lol. I cannot get in again
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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06-21-2009 16:50
I view SL the same as any web service provider, sort of like 3d websites...
If I have a website hosted somewhere, they will compensate for down time (within reason), by prorating your fees per month and deducting the down time...
many places including cable companies will do this, in cases where it warrants it (I have had it done for me in RL when cable went out)
electric no, because heck when it is down, you are not paying anyway heh
I on a personal level do not care if I am compensated... however if I were to be paying tier on 100's or 1000's of sims, I would damn well want to be compensated on a prorated basis...
If you are paying 295 for 1000 sims per month, and you are without access for 2 days on 100 of those sims... what does it work out to be for those 2 days?
That is approx 1966.66 US dollars you paid for 2 days for an inaccessible service.. you were unable to enter your sims, as well as those you may be renting to (in the case of people who rent out sims)
That is for 100 full sims, at 295 per month (based on 30 day month cycles)
$295 * 100 = $29500 per month cost
$29500 / 30 = $983.33 per day
$983.33 * 2 = $1966.66
(and 100 full sims is not really reaching far, considering there are a few land barons who own that and more)
not mere pennies or even a few dollars when you look at it that way.
I would love to hear from desmond about how he feels about this and how many of his sims were affects and what it cost him to have inaccessible sims during this down time (if he was left untouched then... wow... lucky)
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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RobbyRacoon Olmstead
Red warrior is hungry!
Join date: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,821
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06-21-2009 17:08
From: Rock Vacirca There is a big difference betwen what the TOS say, and what the law, and the courts say, as the first case that came up showed quite clearly.
Rock I don't think I'm familiar with the case you are referring to, but it seems to me that without an SLA in place people should not be expecting compensation. It would be nice if LL would consider it (and I feel they should, sometimes), but there's no contractual obligation. . |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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06-21-2009 17:19
From: Milla Alexandre But yeah I agree.....LL doesn't have to compensate anyone for anything....The Power company doesn't.....the Cable company doesn't (even when it IS their fault lol). Actually.....I really can't think of any company I pay money to monthly that would compensate for any loss of service or whatever. It just doesn't work that way. Really? My phone and cable company pay me compensation, well it's the same company but other phone companies have paid me compensation too, it's a trivial amount admittedly. If LL is down for a long time they'll pay compensation, we have to accept that things break and LL can't be taken to task for every glitch but ongoing long term issues then I'm sure they'd do the decent thing. |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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06-21-2009 17:21
From: Rhaorth Antonelli not sure what you mean weston... I still have a sig on my posts.. *shrug*
as for compensation.. may be only a few bucks to us, but what about people like.. say desmond? who own a lot of sims, those few bucks add up quick Tier is roughly 300 USD/day for me. It is collected by parcel meters that don't count down, when the region they are in is down. That may sound like a bad system, until you realise that it shields *me* from collecting $L (and thus being responsible) when services are not rendered. My guess is that the outages over the weekend cost me about 100 USD, roughly. I'm prepared for such things, but as with most errors I end up absorbing all the expense. This doesn't count the renting residents that just chuck it all and leave when they have a bad SL weekend like this at the beginning of a slow summer. I get to own that, too Likely this wasn't Linden Research's issue at all, though. It was the data center, as I understand it. Just smile and tip your hat when you see your friendly neighbourhood evil land baron. For everyone who has a tale about being shorted, extorted, ripped off, 'whoopsie!' or any sort of financial ...tardery, we've got a dozen. A week. NOT an exaggeration.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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06-21-2009 17:55
From: Desmond Shang Tier is roughly 300 USD/day for me. It is collected by parcel meters that don't count down, when the region they are in is down. That may sound like a bad system, until you realise that it shields *me* from collecting $L (and thus being responsible) when services are not rendered. My guess is that the outages over the weekend cost me about 100 USD, roughly. I'm prepared for such things, but as with most errors I end up absorbing all the expense. This doesn't count the renting residents that just chuck it all and leave when they have a bad SL weekend like this at the beginning of a slow summer. I get to own that, too Likely this wasn't Linden Research's issue at all, though. It was the data center, as I understand it. Just smile and tip your hat when you see your friendly neighbourhood evil land baron. For everyone who has a tale about being shorted, extorted, ripped off, 'whoopsie!' or any sort of financial ...tardery, we've got a dozen. A week. NOT an exaggeration. If the cost was only 100 dollars desmond then you could not have had very many of your sims down, which was very lucky for you. (I am not counting the rent coming in as a buffer to cover down time, I am talking the cost that would have incurred if say you did not have an income coming in, basically how many sims down at a cost of so much per day per sim kind of thing.) my post was more of a way of showing it is not always just a few dollars, sometimes for some folks it is much much more than a few dollars (for me it is frustrating, but the amount of lost sales and lost time, on a dollar percentage is minute... so not the money for me, more the frustration level.)
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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madman626 Fall
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 60
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just a thought
06-21-2009 19:04
From: Clarissa Lowell Sales. Projected sales on an average day. In this case, an average Saturday. Funny ,, i dont go shopping so still no sale ,, so really how you lose,,if ppl not shopping in the first place ? if there was shopping going on you really think beening down matter ? shoppers can wait too |
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Ayesha Lytton
Registered User
Join date: 30 May 2007
Posts: 148
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06-21-2009 19:47
My main sim, where my rental office is located, was down all day. On a Sunday. It was a horrible day for me and it's going to cost me big. 
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