JIRA politics

Hallo guys, i didn't managed with JIRA so much, and the times i did (in the past) while reporting/discussing about bugs and fixes, i was surprised about how the discussions were focused on the tech thing itself rather than fighting each others about different points of view. That's true until i stepped into those "exploits", or any "unitended feature", needed to be fixed, but used by certain ppl that started to complaint about the fact that an eventual fix would "wreck" inworld contents. Any single JIRA entry is populated by almost the same peoples whining about a possible fix, raising any sort of "excuses" to legitimate their positions, while the only position (that MY personal view) seems to be: "i wanna protect my product" (when 99% of the times we're talking about griefer tools; that uses these exploits; and the rest are legit products). Some JIRA entry actually have been transformed into "forum discussions" (with fire and flames of course).

As i said i didn't care so much about that, *until* i stepped into one of these exploits. It was the "map bombing" attack. I won't go into details (this post is already getting long...), but to be short: the LSL function to open the map popup isn't throttled or limited in any way, if you touch an object (it might be invisible) by mistake that attack will start to send you the map popup (that would steal your window focus) repeatly, and you can't do anything else. You can't go into that SIM anymore (even after you have logged out/in), you can't know who's "spamming" you (there's no object reference), the script may be anywhere in any object of the sim (even in a child prim), the script identification is impossible (the script timing it's not so high to being identified within hundreds of other scripts, the script timing of an object also shows only the object totals and not the invididual script times); *calling linden lab doesn't help*, Lindens are unable to identify the spamming object (the suggest cure was: "ask the SIM owner for a roll back (!!)". In other words: you are out of that SIM forever (forever = until someone that care about you so much to screen the entiere SIM to find who's spamming you).

That's not an exageration, it is documented, what i don't understand is how it is possible that a discussion if a fix is needed or not is being raised at all. If a fix of a bug/exploit that would totally stop you "play the game" is in discussion, what i should expect? Do they have shot into my head (in RL) to prove that a bug/exploit is so "dangerous"?

How is possible that LL continue to listen these "tools" creators posting into JIRA, when their only obvious interest is to protect their griefer products?

Thanks for the attention (...about this boring post). And double tnx to have survived to my perfect english.

I rarely go there, unless I see a bug or something I really want posted here. I avoid the place, because it's not friendly to the non-technical.

That said, something like the unthrottled map-popup, I cannot see any good reason why it shouldn't be fixed. It only needs to do it once per a person per a click, period. And as you stated, is something only a griefer will use.

While LL probably does read some of the comments, I believe they tend to favor actual votes. The comments are supposed to be for adding MORE information to the issue, not debate. Whoever is moderating the JIRA really needs to remove debates from there and possibly add subject to the forum for ALL of us to debate.

What you say about the JIRA does happen sometimes, but what I learned in the one time I got involved in the same kinda thing on JIRA was that LL doesnt buy into the politiking. And I think they get fed up with it even more than we do.

LL always advising people that they do and will fix all bugs and exploits as soon as they can. And any scripts written to take advantage of bugs and exploits will be broken when they do fix them.

The one I got involved in was the bug that allowed an avatar to be orbited upto MaxInt under Havok4 just like what used to happen under Havok1. What was interesting about that issue was that LL fixed it initially by capping the height at 4096m. I closed the issue because I thought would be great to be able to do an instant teleport upto that height without having to use WarpPos.

But, one of the 'tools creators' reopened the issue saying that the 4096m cap was inconsistently obtainable and politiked that it broke content based on MaxInt. I agreed that the issue should be reopened because of the inconsistency. Andrew Linden then reverted the distance to what it was under Havok1. Prim link distance. I dont know for sure, but think he maybe thought it was poetic or something.

We're discussing http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1038 here, I presume. And it's contentious. And unfortunately, as far as I comprehend, the solutions on the table at the moment only address the "acute" version of the bug, not the "chronic" variety. For this particular issue, the best approach would be to discuss it with Andrew directly, during one of his office hours, if his maint patch won't adequately address the issue (and I suspect it won't).

(Tangentially: there's an ugly underlying process/architecture issue that Andrew describes there, about not being able to change any of the existing UDP messaging. I understand why they decided that, I think, but what a horrid constraint to endure!)

That said, the jira is full of "contentious" issues, and it's flamier than these Forums ever were. There are a few jira users who should loose the ability to comment, create, close, change priority, or vote on issues; I haven't seen this done, ever.

I'm also increasingly of the opinion that many objects and dialogs need an "AR Creator" button. If G-Team had to wade through as much noise as do residents, these "inventions" would get blacklisted, and their scripters would soon figure out that it's not such a good idea to create widespread misery for fun and profit.

I agree. Be really good I think.

Yes Qie, that JIRA is about the "attack" i've experienced myself (there's a detailed report there.. the result itself is "scary", i tought initially that it was a isolate case (tools creators arguing because of interests) but then i've looked around and i've noticed that the exact same thing is happening everytime someone asks to fix an exploit mainly used by griefers, placing on the table excuses like: "this would wreck my cyber-yoyo that is widely used on SL" (whenever none ever heard about that product), while the truth is that it will wreck your griefer weapon.
It's legit that ppl let them (LL) notice when an eventual fix would wreck contents, but it's not when the arguing coming from someone that is "protecting" a "griefer weapon" for it's own (sales) interests.
I also do not agree on how is possible that LL is considering these products legit. I'm not asking to be "repressive" (i'm on the opposite side), but hey you banned casinos, slots, banks, advertising, and land cutting... but you leave on ther market a product that is using an exploit to stop ppl using second life (on certain lands) that is advertised as (this is exactly the text):

"Ever met someone who is so horrible you need to remove them from the region and lock them out?
Banish will ensure they can not come back to the region for at least 30 minutes by holding their map page open on the destination of Help Island as a hint that they need to re-learn how to play nicely with other people."

Is this is less dangerous than a slot machine? LL if you think that is a legit product, leave it on, but at least FIX the bug(s)!

Which JIRA, btw?

Seems to me that, if it's at all technically feasible, a "Mute object" button should appear on the popped up LM, and this would solve the problem without affecting content.

I can see how merely throttling the LM giving would cause problems with LM givers at busy places. I detest those things, but I sure wouldn't want to make them simply stop working correctly. Throttling it on a per-target basis would be sufficient, but poses some technical challenges.

Don't worry, LL pretty much ignores those people.

JIRA can be brutal and it's not moderated by anyone, as far as I can tell. I only sneak in for a few issues but try to avoid the major arguments.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1317

comes to mind as a particularly vicious fight, which should have ended weeks before it did.

If it's an exploit, report it in the SEC category. No debates.