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Copybotting: What is the typical consumer's obligation?

Naz Fride
21st Century Faux
Join date: 8 May 2007
Posts: 341
09-16-2009 14:58
There's a relatively new clothing (ahem - lingerie) store (store A) (been open a couple of months) that I REALLY like to shop at. I have bought several outfits from it. A couple of weeks ago I was at another, well-established store (store B), that I'm certain has been around longer, though I only discovered it recently. I was stunned to find that at least two of the outfits I had admired (and one I bought) at store A were virtually exact copies of part or all of two outfits at store B. I haven't bought the ones at store B to either compare their appearance or their creation dates to prove any of this, but since the outfits at store B contain elements not present in the corresponding outfits at store A, I assume that store B came first. At any rate, SOMEBODY is copying SOMEBODY. If it was just one outfit, I might think it was just the muse striking in two places at once, but to see TWO outfits that are well-made, distinctive and attractive, copied almost stitch for stitch..well it's just about impossible that it's not a copy. So, my question is....what are my moral obligations here? I have no stake in either business, don't personally know either of the owner/creators, and I could just walk away and pretend I didn't notice. And I have no desire to have somebody banned if they're innocent (though that's hard to imagine in this case.) Plus, I like the stuff store A sells, and, even though she may have pinched a couple of designs, it seems like she does have original designs too, which are well-done. On the other hand, if I was the owner of store B, boy would I want somebody to tell me if my clothes were being copybotted and resold. Not to mention that it's a TOS violation, and probably actionable. So, what do y'all think? Do I have a moral/ethical imperative here? It would be so much easier to just say, "I don't want to get involved. Somebody will eventually figure it out. Let the owner of store B be his/her own creative content detective." And I suppose it's (barely) possible that somehow the owners of the two stores know each other, and are sharing design elements. What should I do?
Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
09-16-2009 15:04
A lot of people make near duplicate items, especially in the clothing & fashion accessory world.

They may actually each be unique.

I would not worry about it.
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Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
09-16-2009 15:17
Naz- the fact that you are concerned tells me you do care- If it were my store- I wd want to know. If u were to drop a NC to BOTH stores- since u dont know which if even either?- but it could be very non-chalant - like- hey- I saw this at X store- are you related? If either is concerned, they would then decide how to follow up or if it were warranted. This way, your conscience is eased and you do not accuse anyone- if it is the Muse as you say- no harm done -
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
09-16-2009 15:19
I'd consider informing each store owner about the other. I don't think your argument about which came first is strong, so you really don't know which one copied the other - if any copying was involved at all. There are all sorts of possibilities, including unintentional infringement (which wouldn't be against the ToS, I hope).

You can't really make any judgments. I see nothing wrong in telling both store owners and leaving it at that.
Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
09-16-2009 15:25
If the items are very similar, it could be that they were both inspired by the same rl clothing...or possibly designer a was inspired by designer b and drew their own version of their work. That is unfortunate, but it happens, in RL fashion as well as in SL.

If the items are EXACT copies, then it is quite possible they were copybotted which IS a violation.

I would do what Amar said, and let the designers sort it out. It's all you can do, really.
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
09-16-2009 15:33
Yep, I'd tell both of them about the similarities of some of their products to others. Even if no infringement actually took place, maybe they can consider working on their originality a bit to make their products a little more distinctive.

Of course, you'll likely be drawn into the inevitable drama fest, so I would do everything possible to extricate myself from the situation. Just mention it as an innocent "hey, lookie here, someone has similar design tastes as you do!" comment to both store owners. Let them investigate and sort it out.
Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
09-16-2009 15:37
One more idea is kits. There are a lot of kits out there to help you make an outfit - many of them full perm so you can sell the result. Its only natural that a kit compiler will end up looking a bit like another compiler.
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Ann Otoole
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
09-16-2009 15:41
Tell Tenshi lol.
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
09-16-2009 15:50
Some clothing creators also buy textures and templates inworld and end up putting out near identical stuff. I discovered this when I informed someone that they were selling some stuff that I knew were freebies and I also knew the original creator. This person selling the stuff told me where she bought the templates and textures and sure enough I found them. Since them I have seen the same gowns in a variety of stores.

What I learned from that experience was to not jump to conclusions -- they were not maliciously or knowingly copying stuff. They were just not creating their own originals, but buying creations from somewhere else.
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Dana Hickman
Leather & Lace™
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,515
09-16-2009 17:36
Sounds familiar to something I noticed a year ago or so with 2 different stores. One store is newer, popular with newer trends, and the older one is obviously someones pet with a zillion items on 3 floors that definately show her talent and that all her stuff was made by her. Many items, most in the exact same outfit combinations, are being sold at both places as their own work. I did wind up sending a note to both creators, nothing serious, just a FYI.. let them sort it out if it's a problem.
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AK Alchemi
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 190
09-16-2009 17:48
Do the outfits have different names?
Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
09-17-2009 11:38
From: Amaranthim Talon
Naz- the fact that you are concerned tells me you do care- If it were my store- I wd want to know. If u were to drop a NC to BOTH stores- since u dont know which if even either?- but it could be very non-chalant - like- hey- I saw this at X store- are you related? If either is concerned, they would then decide how to follow up or if it were warranted. This way, your conscience is eased and you do not accuse anyone- if it is the Muse as you say- no harm done -
Nice approach. :)
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Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
09-17-2009 12:01
Thanks Lear :)

BTW - if you guys see my lashes elsewhere.... ;)
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Naz Fride
21st Century Faux
Join date: 8 May 2007
Posts: 341
09-20-2009 10:09
OK, I had a conversation with the owner of one of the stores, and she was very friendly and receptive to my queries and seemed totally sincere. (An alt of mine did the dirty work, so I don't THINK she was tipped off my this thread.) At any rate, she explained that she buys designs from third party designers (who are also free to sell their designs to other stores) and that this is what happened in this case. She even went to the other store with me and looked at the other outfits, and we had a nice conversation. She told me the name of the designer in question, and I have no reason to doubt that every word she told me is true. I'm very relieved, for all the obvious reasons. The third party designer scenario never occurred to me, and I feel dumb now. At any rate, I'm glad I handled it the way I did, and that it turned out the way it turned out. Thank you all for your advice. It was a big help.