I'm getting dizzy from the spin

Well, on the SL5B update blog posting, Katt is still insisting there never was a ban on any group, and the "no nipples" is an old policy from last year that isn't being enforced, and that there is nothing revisionist or having spin put on it by what she and everett are saying.

Thoughts?

Can anyone tell me how:

"anything from a child avatar will be declined" = not allowed

Banned = not allowed


IS there a way to take "anything from [group] will be declined" does NOT mean "not allowed"?

Unless there is, I just can't see a way to call those statements as anything BUT "banned".

Can anybody tell me why anybody cares about this stupid birthday party?

Well, five years is a pretty long time in Internet terms for any online venture even remotely resembling a "game". Heck, Ultima Online just passed the ten year mark and it's a big deal that way.

I'll show up just because I didn't get to attend the first four.

I gotta admit, I'm with you on this one. but to answer the OP, it's typical LL doublespeak, neverspeak, and a little backtracking thrown in for good measure.

I think, like all spinny rides, it makes my head hurt.

You know what I'd really like to see, most of all? Something that simply says, "Look, we kinda screwed this up. We had some communication issues on our part that got out of control. We took actions we're not proud of. We're sorry things have gone this way."

I'd also love for them to go beyond that, and learn from the experience, and get better not only at making effective, *inclusive* policy, but at communicating openly with us residents.

I also know I'm tired, personally. with other things going on in my RL and SL, including some very painful moments in the latter, I've had to put aside my own feelings and deal with all this.

I've had to be told that my own presentation would have to be shuttered during a direct meeting with a Linden staffmember, and that all submissions by/about kids were disallowed, only for the SL blog to tell people the next week that any such claims were "misinformation from some Residents."

I've had to see friends of mine face content restrictions against even the most placid images of adults and children together, and be told myself by a Linden staffmember to "try to avoid" such imagery, yet again a week later, a Linden posts on the blog (in comments) that this was all "confused rumors."

On that last blog entry, too, it really seemed like they were trying to indicate that child avatars were putting in material that *wasn't* PG, didn't it?

Also - and this is going to sound, I dunno. It feels weird to say this. So much of this has felt like an "All About Marianne McCann" thing. It isn't, it shouldn't be. I'm just one of many kid avvies. One of the better known, yes. Definitely one of the move vocal out there, if not the most vocal. But this *shouldn't* be about me. It shouldn't even just be about kid avvies. It's about what should be allowed at an event about Second Life, and what truly reflects Our World and Our Imagination.

If SL is the "3D Web," then it needs to embrace all the web is. The web is an incredible engine for commerce. A virtual home to many schools, businesses, and institutions. It is also where you can find LOLCats, Tron Guy, and "Chocolate Rain." It is even a place where you can find "deviancy" far beyond anything we've yet seen in SL.

The debate over SL5B, over whether SL should be represented by all its cultures, or only those carefully vetted and found to be "safe enough" should be seen as a turning point as monumental as the Jesse War or the "Tea Party" was in SLs earlier days.

There's my thoughts.

On the other hand, that would imply that things were screwed up due to communication issues, and _communication_ has not really been the problem - attempts to prohibit exhibits by child avs have been the problem. Well, as far as residents are concerned, anyway - perhaps for LL, _excessive_ communication has been the problem. They will hardly say "yeah, some Lindens tried to ban child avs but now we're backtracking because it leaked out and everybody hated the idea" now.

As an addendum I wouldn't say that this was by any means an "LL policy", more something that a subgroup has tried to have done and most of the company was not aware of at all. A bit like the recent DMCA removals-of-random-stuff, perhaps.

Mari, you have (and have always had) nothing but my complete respect. I simply do not know how you manage to remain calm and controlled in the face of what you've had to endure simply because of whom you choose to be in SL. If anything, you may be TOO forgiving.

You can be very sure I will take great delight in visiting Kid5B. And if I do attend SL5B at all, it will only be for the express purpose of saying "the Emperor has no clothes" about the Lindens' approach to all this. Until I get ejected from the sims, of course.

Many years ago, when I worked within a different online service, where I learned how to foster communities, work against bad policies, and most everything I do today here, I was taught an important lession from my boss and mentor: always smile from the wrists down.

Mari

I always thought the spin doctors were underrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=givZsEAW80k

I will visit a few displays at SL5B to show my support of those but when it comes to fun, my hours will be spent at Kids5B

The TAO strikes again!

Fear the TAO!!

If it's any consolation, I don't care much for child avatars.
I do, however, care quite a bit about starting down the slippery slope of judging "acceptable thoughts", which is why I have been somewhat vocal in this issue.
To me, this is certainly a lot larger than "child avatars in SL", and a much more principal matter.

Seasons don't fear the Tao, nor do the wind, the sun or the rain, we can be like they are.

By the way, have you noticed that they've now done what they do EVERY time there's a big, major mess blog posting?

Yup. Today they cranked out several more most-inconsequential blog postings to shove the "egg on our face" blog (DMCA fiasco) off the radar, and the spinning-madly SL5B blog entry isn't far from the oblivion of "out of sight, out of mind", either.

Oh, and speaking of spin, I just looooooved this dandy little bit of spin by everett:

Here is what I posted on the blog:



Right, as Katt and Everett said, they weren't banned from the event. So, Katt and Everett aren't lying about that. The child avatars just weren't going to get exhibits in the event until a stink was raised by the community. Not a ban.. just "respectfully declined," whenever they submitted an exhibit.

The only reason I've commented on this now, is because Everett finally got his chance to respond, and it's the usual PR/political mouthful of words. You know, if he didn't mean it the way he said it/sounded to us, he could just apologize. It's less painful and highly less annoying, instead of denying everything that actually was said and done.

I want to say kudos to the SLkids that did get their exhibits approved and are still trying to make it work. It's spirits like that that give humankind their freedoms!

And good job at getting the last word in, too, Raudf!


And yes, I agree... the Lindens can just never admit they made a mistake or did anything wrong, hence my (and other peoples') references to Orwell's Big Brother.

"We have always been at war with Eurasia..."

I had been planning on making a short visit to SL5B to support a few displays. Howeever after Katt and Ev's final posts I had to change my mind and respecfully decline to give any support to SL5B


Kids5B - Celebrating 5 years of Kid Avatars in Second Life

I thought that LL was finally making progress when they changed the rules about Kid's submissions for SL5B. Then they screwed up again with the censorship of the pictures being used for builds in SL5B. Then another seeming reversal of that decision. This is about when I started getting very confused.

Now - the blog post "explaining" the mistakes that all of use residents made in our interpretation of their comments and actions.

I just have to call shenanigans on that whole explanation.

They have changed the rules, reversed decisions so many times, and then turned around and got pissy with the residents who were asking for an explanation.

I had also intended to visit the official celebration, if not for anything else but to see some of the kid's builds that did get accepted. However, my disgust with LL and their handling of this whole situation has changed my mind about that..

I will spend my time at the Kids5B celebration, showing my support to them and having a lot of fun I'm sure.

Sparkly

Hell, I'd planned a bit of a silent protest myself, with the help of a person who'd made an av similar to one I've made. Unfortunately, due to a combination of lack of response, and my disgust at LL's weaseling, which is second only to one W.J.C., former president, I'm backing off and not even going to give LL the honor of my presence.

The plan was to get an 'army' (read: a group of about 10-20) of these similar avs together (a version would be made available inexpensively to participants), and do, well, nothing out of the ordinary. We'd be visiting exhibits, chatting, and in general, being simply visitors, albeit freaky-looking and really unable to be told apart. Hell, we wouldn't even say what we were doing unless asked about it, and then being truthful, but neutral in our response.

Just for the way LL has handled this whole thing, I won't be attending. I'm disappointed in their manner.

I'll still attend SL5B. Simply to be sure that at least some positive presence is there about people who roleplay as avatars younger than their Player's real age. There are several kid-friendly exhibits that have managed to navigate the maze of changing rules and still present something worthwhile.

But I will be wearing one of my kid avatars, while I act as a host at my Kid-friendly exhibit. And I'll be directing people to also check out Kids5B, so they can see what LL declined to accept, or those who felt honor-bound to boycott SL5B.

If they've abandoned the 'no nipples' policy, does that mean I can wear the new bare breasted summer dress I've made to SL5B LOL???

Don't worry - I won't wear it there!

Well, given that 6/23 is my RL anniversary, I wasn't planning on attending that day for sure. Now, if I do, it will be with a sign that says, "Some communities were 'respectfully declined' from the Linden Lab's idea of community."

But if I get the chance, I'll definitely go to the kids' one! Maybe as a kid myself.

We may need a pic of that on you.. just to help with your question of course. Purely scientific reasons.