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Gordon Wendt
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05-02-2008 23:35
Of course I take this with a grain of salt as I suggest all of you do as well but if true then this is a very serious issue in script security and that I know of it is the 3rd or 4th in SL history that can actually be used to illegitimate access to lsl code.

From: Second Life Herald:Slexchange ATM Script Cracked?

From: someone
Friday, IntLibber Brautigan posted a warning of an exploit allowing technically savvy residents to “capture ATM scripts in bytecode format”. This is a significant development given the number of successful Second Life businesses that use LSL scripts to transfer goods and money -- an un-patched exploit could be a significant blow to the in-world economy.
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Kitty Barnett
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05-02-2008 23:44
*If* it's true, the fact that they explain what the basic steps are is a bit disconcerting...
Gordon Wendt
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05-02-2008 23:50
From: Kitty Barnett
*If* it's true, the fact that they explain what the basic steps are is a bit disconcerting...


I won't post another post on my views of security through obscurity since I've made it fairly clear in quite a few other posts on these forums so I won't bore you by repeating myself.
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Kitty Barnett
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05-03-2008 00:01
From: Gordon Wendt
I won't post another post on my views of security through obscurity since I've made it fairly clear in quite a few other posts on these forums so I won't bore you by repeating myself.
You could either be talking about the fact that some script creators rely on the fact that the bytecode for a script won't be visible by anyone but the sim, or about exploit disclosure? :confused:

If it's about disclosure, I'll have to side with responsible disclosure: there's no reason to make (half of) the basic steps public unless your intent is to popularize the exploit.

Uildiar's evasive answers were responsible, what's posted on the blog the article links to isn't.
Macphisto Angelus
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Join date: 21 Oct 2004
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05-03-2008 00:19
From: someone
“with the code obtained, one can make an SLX terminal give you ANY product listed on SLX for free in any quantity or clean out the avatar owning the ATM - all their money - these capabilities have been tested I am told”.


I believe ATMs are not owned by the land owner. When I had one SLEX asked me to make a small area (16sq) and let them place it there or add them to my group and let them place one.

IF that is still the case, the land owners with ATMs should not be in danger by this, right? Though the danger of someone getting any quantity of items free is another story.

From: someone
Some observers are concerned that this sort of exploit could destabilize the in-world economy, and Mr. Brautigan reports that his source “has already notified Soft Linden about this vulnerability - he also tried to notify SLX but they said ‘our system is uncrackable’".


Though I can appreciate the faith SLEX has in it's system.. I am a bit leary on them just saying it is uncrackable. I sure hope they have tested to see if this stuff is true and not just took the "it is impossible" stance.
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Vampaerus Wysznik
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05-03-2008 00:32
"it is uncrackable" = non-disclosure of "oh @#&%!"
Talarus Luan
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05-03-2008 01:23
There's no such thing as "non-obscure" security. I understand the concept that depending on obscurity of all parts of a secure system is probably not the best idea, but in every system there WILL be some part that MUST be kept obscure. In cryptosystems, it is the key or keys. Regardless of whether or not the algorithm is kept obscure, the key(s) MUST be kept secure, otherwise there is no security.

Also, I like the notion of the "black box". You put some data in, some random-looking garbage gets spit out. You run the garbage into another (or the same) black box, and out pops the data. Having the algorithms obscure *does* raise the bar for anyone attempting to crack your system, but you should never depend on the obscurity of the algorithm for the primary strength of the cryptosystem.

That is the problem that the "security through obscurity" phrase is intended to point out, not that obscurity of any kind in a secure system is bad, because there will ALWAYS be some.

With respect to the OP, chances are, the bytecode contained embedded key string constants, and the rest of the system was discernible from an analysis of the bytecode.
Macphisto Angelus
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05-03-2008 10:55
Something that occured to me later was that the ATMs do not handle product delivery. They handle linden transactions and verifying your avie to the SLEX site, but I think that is all.

This thing is sounding more like a hoax to scare people then a real security issue to me. Anyone know different about the ATMs and product deliveries?
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From: Natalie P from SLU
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Oryx Tempel
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05-03-2008 10:57
I dunno, I know Intlibber; he's pretty sharp.
Xerxes Kingstop
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05-03-2008 11:09
ATM's dont' handle product deliveries. The SLX MAgic Boxes do that.


right?
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Macphisto Angelus
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Join date: 21 Oct 2004
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05-03-2008 11:09
Well I just went back over to the Herald to read comments and:

1. A thread concerning this was started on SLEX and was deleted promptly by an admin.
2. Dissent made a statement there before it was:
From: someone

Yes SLX is completely compromised. The bytecode can be decompiled and by looking at those scripts one can do just about anything.
I have the code in its entirety.
Additionally:
We are attacking the grid again. Our weapons actually don't directly attack the asset servers. When an object replicates all copies are a reference to the same asset but when our weapons replicate so fast and we are getting over twenty thousand of them returned per minute due to autoreturn it creates an asset for each and every one of them. We are also currently experimenting with disrupting SLX communications in-world since the admins got smart and began filtering our DDoS attacks.
We're demanding that [Name Removed for SL forum] be banned or she issue a public apology for being a french biggot and pedophile. Until [Name Removed for SL forum] is banned SLX will continue to be the target of ongoing attacks. [Name Removed for SL forum] doesn't make much money here anyways so the admins are just trying to be stubborn thinking that they can report us the the FBI and that will solve the problem. We aren't going anywhere, SLX. Comply or you will be dismantled.
If any of you are getting tired of the attacks you could simply move over to onrez and leave this [censored for SL forum]fest behind. You could PM the admins and beg them to comply. They likely will not listen but it doesn't matter to me or my associates if they go out of business.

You can also expect a delay on responses from support emails since we have spammed their inbox and Apotheus Silverman's personal email which can be obtained from a simple WHOIS on the domain.
I think the best part is that we can attack Second Life while we attack SLX. It's very convenient.

-DiSSENT



3. Tenshi says her alt's inbox was spammed by them saying they hacked her account

http://shoppingcartdisco.com/2008/05/03/slx-atms-hacked-your-info-compromised/



Soooooo Not sure what is going on but looks like it is a mess.
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From: Natalie P from SLU
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality!


From: Ann Launay
I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
05-03-2008 11:10
From: Xerxes Kingstop
ATM's dont' handle product deliveries. The SLX MAgic Boxes do that.


right?


Right as far as I know.
This was in the comments at the Herald:

From: someone


The scripts above aren't ATM scripts. They are excerpts from the SLX Magic Box, something you can't use to steal things from SLX. Also to get script bytecode from things, you have to own the stuff yourself. As the ATM aren't given out, the ATMs so far are safe.




Edit to add:

Apotheus (owner of SLEX) had this to say on the SLEX forum:

From: someone

If there was any danger to our customers and merchants, we'd disable item purchases and money transfers until the issue was resolved. I plan to post an announcement with a more complete explanation later today. Suffice to say this isn't the first time our LSL code has been compromised and attempted to use against us, I doubt it will be the last, and SLX was designed with that likely possibility in mind right from the start.


http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=48743

So he does not seem to be worried.
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From: Natalie P from SLU
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality!


From: Ann Launay
I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
Gordon Wendt
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05-03-2008 14:48
I meant obscurity of the exploit btw not obscurity of the system I agree that the system itself has to have some (the more the better) obscurity to be secure but I am against the idea that exploits shouldn't be made public especially since historically speaking companies that have been notified privately of exploits by people who have found them and practiced "responsible disclosure" take longer to actually fix the exploit than those that are publicly shown to have an exploit and then shamed/pressured by their customers and clients into fixing the security of their product.
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Ordinal Malaprop
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05-03-2008 14:51
I have to say that I automatically discount _anything_ I read in the Herald about scripting or technical issues generally. At best it will be a bizarre distortion of the actual situation; at worst, just simply made up.
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Macphisto Angelus
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05-03-2008 15:27
From: Ordinal Malaprop
I have to say that I automatically discount _anything_ I read in the Herald about scripting or technical issues generally. At best it will be a bizarre distortion of the actual situation; at worst, just simply made up.


Really? For trusted news I follow the Herald in SL and FOX for RL. Neither of them would fabricate or report blindly about things. Would they? :D /End Sarcasm

And Apotheus released his statement over at SLEX. Here it is:
From: someone

There is an article over at the Herald today which talks about some of our in-world scripts being disclosed via a new Second Life exploit. I just wanted to post here to reassure you all that there is no reason to worry; there is no security breach. Your account information, your items, and your L$ and USD are safe.

SL Exchange has been a viable and reliable service functioning securely with and within Second Life for almost four years. Shortly after first launching the site it became obvious that LSL scripts should not be "trusted" to A) work correctly or B) be secure. It is for that reason that the bulk of our security as well as nearly all of our logic / intelligence resides on our own servers. Furthermore, these routines have been specifically engineered and fine-tuned over the years so that problems with Second Life such as technical failures, security exploits, or whatever else, will have the least effect possible to SL Exchange.

This isn't the first time our source code has been compromised and there is more to read on the subject if you search our forums. I'll refrain from repeating it here so that only those few of you who care about the details will have to read it.


So it looks like most things are on his own servers rather then SL's. That was pretty smart thinking. :)


UPDATE: The Herald is now taking the word of what they call a uber scripter that is saying that the problem was fixed a month ago. Yet in the comment intLibber says:

From: someone

This bug remains and was replicated last night with a simple 'hello avatar' script.


I think I will go with what intLibber says.
_____________________
From: Natalie P from SLU
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality!


From: Ann Launay
I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
RobbyRacoon Olmstead
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Join date: 20 Sep 2006
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05-03-2008 18:37
While that does indeed comfort me about SLX's security, I am still bothered by the thought that it might (and I'm not at all convinced yet) be possible to perform the same voodoo with other items, such as all those thousands of other fine and fancy scripted items for sale in-world.

.
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Gordon Wendt
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05-03-2008 19:25
From: RobbyRacoon Olmstead
While that does indeed comfort me about SLX's security, I am still bothered by the thought that it might (and I'm not at all convinced yet) be possible to perform the same voodoo with other items, such as all those thousands of other fine and fancy scripted items for sale in-world.

.



That's what I'm concerned about too, even before it was confirmed by them I assumed that SLX was designed with this kind of vulnerability in mind and designed so it wouldn't have much of an effect if any but there are any number of other scripted items that unscrupulous and dishonest people would kill to get their hands on the scripted contents of.
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