Geometry and Geography

I have two BURNING questions related to how space works in SL.

First, there seems to be a range of opinion about the "right" size to be in SL. I meet plenty of folks who are adamant about being a "normal" size, and use some kind of RL based measuring device to put themselves in the average human size range. Now, putting aside debate about how desirable or practical that is (I find when I make my av smaller, as is my general preference, I don't fit anywhere properly, for example) I'm curious about what people are using as their basis for that measurement. How are people devising their measurement tool?

Second, is there a map somewhere of all of SL? I mean, I know it exists in a bunch of servers and doesn't actually occupy that kind of real geographical space, but does it occupy some kind of imaginary geographical space? I hardly ever walk or fly around from place to place because I'm always running into walls and barriers and sim edges (??) or what have you. But I'd like a visual representation of the whole damn world and I'm wondering if that exists anywhere...?

Well, the world uses the meter as a frame of reference. I figure when in human form about 1.82 meters = my real life height of six feet even. I think most builds seem huge compared to that to allow room for your camera to not get stuck in walls when you are indoors. That expalins the different proportions, huge doors and so forth.

Carl Metropolitan's excellent maps are scattered throughout the grid, mostly at the NCI locations. There are also some interesting interactive maps at Skidz Isle, but I'm not sure what exactly they do.

Weston makes an important point about camera limitations. The sad fact is, if avatars and buildings were all made to be in proportion to each other the results would seem horribly cramped and claustrophobic when indoors.

Also it seems that the ranges on some of the shape sliders really work better for taller avatars. For one example, if I try to make myself the equivalent of 6 feet tall there's no way to scale down my forearms enough to match aesthetically, and I end up looking like Popeye. Not to mention I couldn't get a hug that didn't involve my nose buried in someone's cleavage, not entirely unpleasant mind you but not usually what I had in mind.

So if you'd like to be small, my suggestion is to ignore the numbers and just make yourself a bit smaller than most of the people around you.

Oh, I'm quite happy with how I look/feel. I was more wondering about how people were figuring their RL height in SL.

Right! Of course. *facepalm* Not sure why that hadn't occurred to me...

Thanks for the tips about the maps, too.

I don't know about the camera argument... I recently went around measuring all the furniture in SL and furniture is well, huge. Why make furniture oversized? Because the camera would be restricted? That doesn't seem like such a good excuse.

But if you accept that ceilings and doors work better oversized, then normal furniture would end up looking silly in all those giant rooms.

Don't get me wrong, I agree entirely that much SL furniture looks huge when you see yourself on it or next to it. I still think, though, that it all comes back to how the camera works when constrained by walls and ceilings, and everything else kind of grew from there.

And both those points, the big rooms, the big furniture, make the big avatars make sense, no? It's all on a different scale...

I'm still not changing my shape, my feet never reach the ground on RL furniture, either.

I still don't get why furniture is too large. I mean when you sit in most furniture you end up looking like a kid! Oh can't make furniture too small or else it would make your house seem large and impressive! Wouldn't want that. Don't want anyone to fit too much stuff into one room... it's a fire hazard.

I've sent you a copy of my "Avatar Ruler".. it's got some interesting numbers that might help you understand what's going on. pay special attention to the "apparent height" stat.

Interesting snippet from this 2003 thread ...

/120/4d/7240/1.html#post54400

Yes. The situation just arose unintentionally.

It's just unfortunate that they used *the name* of a RL unit of measure.
If dimensions were in 'phils' or something, we'd never have people trying to make their avatar match their RL metres.

Trying to be one's RL height in SL is just quaint - and inviting needless hassle if one frequents Adult places.

I should add "History" to my thread title. Thanks for the info. I find the whole thing really interesting...

Thank you!

One factor on the size diferences is also the fact that an "Avatar Ruler", or scripted height measuring device, usually can only repor what height your eyes are at. this is because the only LSL scripted call that reports anything about avatar height reports eye height, for setting a camera to the same height as "mouselook" for that avatar.

So... if you use a typical height measuring scripted object to rely on, your avatar is actually taller to start with than what the ruler reports. Taller by the distance from your eyes to the top of your head.

Then there is the follow-camera issue. It is a few meters above and behind your head. This makes everything look a bit smaller than what your mind says it should look like, and makes "properly proportioned" ceilings too low. A "to scale" eight foot ceiling over a six foot tall avatar places the camera in the ceiling, or even in the room on the need floor up!

So... To compensate for avatars that are made based on scripted measuring devices, many Builders built at a scale of 1.25 : 1 or 1.5 : 1 - multiplying "real-world" measurements by 1.25 or 1.5 to get doors and ceilings that don't feel cramped, and rooms that don't feel claustrophobicly small.

But FURNITURE needs to be scaled to the avatar, and a LOT of builders forget that! If you make the furniture exactly to the same scale as the building, you look like a child sitting on Grandma's couch. Or like Lilly Tomlin in the oversized rocking chair, pretending to be a kid. (For those old enough to recall the "Laugh In" TV show if the 60's and 70's). I make my own furniture scaled to a Ruth Male avatar, and that makes it fit most people pretty well. For example, chair seat height is roughly at the back of the knee, and counter top height is roughly where the hand would rest flat on the surface, while standing erect.

Personally, so much of the SL world is built to fit oversized avatars that I have just given up on trying to make my avatar "exactly to scale". Instead, my avatars just use the avatar rulers that measure eye height, and based on that are anywhere from 3'10" tall (for some of my child forms) to 7 feet tall (for one of my exceptionally tall furry alts), and with most of them at about 5'7" tall, which is what "feels right" for me.

Ditto that. Most SL furniture leaves me looking like Dennis Waterman in 'Little Britain'

well yes that is the reason really. The ceiling of a room needs to be about 4-5m high to allow "room" for the camera (because your camera angle is above your avatar's view). But a normal sized room with a 5m ceiling would look like the inside of a chimney, so people build rooms bigger so they're proportional to the height. Then, normal sized furniture in a room that big looks lost in a vast empty space, so people build furniture bigger so it looks more in proportion with the room.

Hence, your couch is so big that when you sit on it your feet don't reach the floor.

In RL I'm a bit shorter than average, but rather than make my avatar equal to my RL height, I made it a few inches shorter than SL-average. So I'm 6'3" in SL which is pretty short for a guy. I was at a gig the other night and nearly everyone was at least a head's height taller than me. But I look rather more "mature" so it's unlikely I'll be mistaken for a child avatar.

I'm supposed to be 5ft 6in, but that translates as 5ft 11in on most SL height detectors. I suppose it's basically guesswork but I just assume that the SL foot and the SL metre are slightly smaller than the RL equivalents!

Alas, 'tis true. A real ferret is a lot less than four feet tall.

That's the beauty of being a non-human avatar.
You can be any age you want.
You can go naked in PG even.
Downside would be issues with many poses on scripted stuff. You should (or should not) see my tiny on a dance-floor. A cross between cute and a scene from Alien bursting out of a diminutive human. But hey! You can't have everything.