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Zindra: The Dam Problem...

Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
06-17-2009 17:57
Zindra's pair of dams produce an interesting problem, geographicly.

The Lindens tried to have radically different water levels on the high side of the two dams, as opposed to on the low side.

Nice concept, with a very strange rendering flaw.

Go to one of the dams, and hover above water level on the downstream side. Now cam over to the other side of the dam, and look below water level. You have a nice surface of Linden water, much higher than on the side you're on, but no "cloudy" effect below the water.

Fly over to the high side of the dam, and look again below the water on that side. Now, it's cloudy below the water level.

From the high side, cam over and look at the face of the dam, from the downstream side. It's cloudy ABOVE the water. The surface is where it belongs, but the cloudy effect is as high as the water surface in the sim you are in.

This appears to be because the cloudy effect is based on the water height in the sim you are actually IN. Not the sim the camera is in.

Very strange...
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Dytska Vieria
+/- .00004™
Join date: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
06-17-2009 20:42
You can always count on LL to mess up the dam plumbing!
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Nicole Portola
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 137
06-18-2009 08:20
Ceera, can you send me a landmark in game to the dams? I'd like to check them out.

Thanks in advance:)
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
06-18-2009 09:07
Wow, a new problem with Windlight after all this time. *sigh*
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
06-18-2009 09:07
Hi Nicole,

Created and sent to you the two landmarks for the dams. Be especially careful walking on the Southern one. It straddles a 4-corner sim intersection, and like the roads in the "City" section of Zindra, it was poorly designed and is VERY easy to fall through prims and get trapped in the structure's underpinnings. The Mole who made it made ZERO attempt to make the prims at the sim crossings safe to walk on.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
06-18-2009 09:10
From: Argent Stonecutter
Wow, a new problem with Windlight after all this time. *sigh*
Probably not noticed before, because no one tried placing two sims side by side with a 30 M to 40 M difference in sim water levels. You would normally only do it in a place like these dams, where the transition is for several landlocked sims. It allowed the upper level reserviors and rivers and lakes to be "real Linden Water". But the simulator sure botches the visuals if you are on the other side of the sim border, and camming around.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
06-18-2009 09:12
From: Ceera Murakami
But the simulator sure botches the visuals if you are on the other side of the sim border, and camming around.

Stop doing it then! :)
Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
06-18-2009 09:12
From: Ceera Murakami
Hi Nicole,

Created and sent to you the two landmarks for the dams. Be especially careful walking on the Southern one. it straddles a 4-corner sim intersectin, and like the roads in the "City" section of Zindra, it was poorly designed and is VERY easy to fall through prims and get trapped in the structure's underpinnings. Thay made ZERO attempt to make the prims at the sim crossings safe to walk on.


No. I think it's ok for Zindra.
That's like an RLV trap, but without the scripting overhead on the sims or avatar attachments. Green Restraint :)
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Solar Legion
Darkness from Light
Join date: 9 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
06-18-2009 09:23
About time someone actually noticed this bug .....
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
06-18-2009 09:26
From: Ceera Murakami
Probably not noticed before, because no one tried placing two sims side by side with a 30 M to 40 M difference in sim water levels.
There's several places like that on the mainland. Including one within a couple of sims of Ahern.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Nicole Portola
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 137
06-18-2009 10:23
Thank you:D And as far as Rlv trap I can confirm either way?
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
06-18-2009 10:26
From: Nicole Portola
Thank you:D And as far as Rlv trap I can confirm either way?
Not related to RLV in any way. I do not use RLV. It's just poor building practices, making somethring that overlaps the sim edge, without extending a prim from either side to support you while the sim to sim handoff of the avatar occurs.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Nicole Portola
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 137
06-18-2009 11:08
Obvious joke is missed?

:P Thank you for the landmarks though and I'm going to have to check these out.
hurly Burleigh
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 167
06-18-2009 11:19
i thought the majority of the building i saw on the new continent was poor. In addition everyone i spoke to complained that it was very laggy even on empty sims.

Has LL decided to make use of all its old servers to run the new adult area?

once again the people who made SL what it is are being sold up the river to accomodate big business.
Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
06-18-2009 11:43
From: hurly Burleigh
i thought the majority of the building i saw on the new continent was poor. In addition everyone i spoke to complained that it was very laggy even on empty sims.

Has LL decided to make use of all its old servers to run the new adult area?

once again the people who made SL what it is are being sold up the river to accomodate big business.



Ive seen that before when a new "chunk" of mainland is first opened up. I am clueless as to why, but my guess is it will settle down in the coming weeks.
Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
06-18-2009 12:25
From: Alisha Matova
Ive seen that before when a new "chunk" of mainland is first opened up. I am clueless as to why, but my guess is it will settle down in the coming weeks.


I remember the same thing in Bay and Nautilus. I rember that Nautilus in particular was very weird to begin with.



This dam thing and the water levels across sims:

I have land beside the dam at the Clarkburg/Ross border, and beside the dam at the Tethys/Arlberg border.
I had never noticed the effect, but there it is when I look for it. I just never cammed there in just the right/wrong way.
_____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589
TigroSpottystripes Katsu
Join date: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 556
06-18-2009 14:59
From: someone
STATE OF MICHIGAN

Reply to:
GRAND RAPIDS DISTRICT OFFICE
STATE OFFICE BUILDING 6TH FLOOR
350 OTTAWA NW
GRAND RAPIDS MI 49503-2341

JOHN ENGLER, Governor
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
HOLLISTER BUILDING, PO BOX 30473, LANSING MI 48909-7973
INTERNET: http://www.deq.state.mi us
RUSSELL J. HARDING, Director

December 17, 1997

CERTIFIED


Mr. Ryan DeVries
2088 Dagget
Pierson, MI 49339

Dear Mr. DeVries:

SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023-1 T11N, R10W, Sec. 20, Montcalm Count-,),

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent
unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.

A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files show that no permits have been issued. Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301,. Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially, failed during a recent rain event, causing debris dams and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all unauthorized activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the strewn channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 1998. Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff.

Failure to comply with this request, or any further unauthorized activity on the site, may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.


Sincerely,

David L. Price
District Representative
Land and Water Management Division
616-356-0269

dlp:bjc
cc: LWMD, Lansing

MontcaImCEA
Pierson Township
Lieutenant Mary C. Sherzer, DNR LED


Reply:
Stephen and Rosalind Tvedten
2530 Hayes Street
Marne, MI 49435-9751
616-677-1261
616-677-1262 Fax
[email]steve@getipm.com[/email]
1/6/98


David L. Price
District Representative
Land and Water Management Division
Grand Rapids District Office
State Office Bldg., 6th Floor
350 Ottawa, N.W.
Grand Rapids, MI 49503-2341

Dear Mr. Price:

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N, R10W, Sec 20; Montcalm County

Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respond to. You sent out a great deal of carbon copies to a lot of people, but you neglected to include their addresses. You will, therefore, have to send them a copy of my response.

First of all, Mr. Ryan DeVries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan - I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, nor authorize their dam project, I think they would be highly offended you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris". I would like to challenge you to attempt to emulate their dam project any dam time and/or any dam place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no dam way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your dam request the beavers first must fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity, my first dam question to you is: are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or do you require all dam beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, please send me completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated. My first concern is - aren't the dam beavers entitled to dam legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said dam representation - so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer.

The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing dam flooding is proof we should leave the dam Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names. If you want the dam stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition - contact the dam beavers - but if you are going to arrest them (they obviously did not pay any dam attention to your dam letter -- being unable to read English) - be sure you read them their dam Miranda first. As for me, I am not going to cause more dam flooding or dam debris jams by interfering with these dam builders. If you want to hurt these dam beavers - be aware I am sending a copy of your dam letter and this response to PETA. If your dam Department seriously finds all dams of this nature inherently hazardous and truly will not permit their existence in this dam State - I seriously hope you are not selectively enforcing this dam policy - or once again both I and the Spring Pond Beavers will scream prejudice!

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their dam unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I to live and enjoy Spring Pond. So, as far as I and the beavers are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more dam elevated enforcement action now. Why wait until 1/31/98? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no dam way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem; bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the dam beavers alone. If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.


Sincerely,

Stephen L.Tvedten


‮>.>
*skcud*
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From: someone
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Then they came for the furries,
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Ren Austinmer
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 62
06-18-2009 17:11
I noticed this pre-windlight at the border of Plum and Tan and some other regions in the Mainland.
Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
06-18-2009 18:02
I went on the dam tour, but there was no dam guide and I didn't even get a dam t-shirt.
Nic Writer
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 740
06-18-2009 18:45
"I toured Zindra and all I bought was this dam t-shirt"

Someone so needs to make one of these...
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