Registry of responsible businesses?

Apologies in advance for the following shaggy-dog saga, by way of background for the question: how can it be easier and more reliable to know of trustworthy in-world businesses?

So, I got interested in a tale of Estate rental woe (; finding the terms of the rental incredibly bad, I investigated. In fact, it really is as overpriced as the OP of that thread describes, but I was going to explain how friends have gotten burnt much worse on several occasions by Estate owners just vanishing, and how something like an in-world Angie's List would be beneficial.

But something about the name of the Estate in that thread reminded me of an ad I've seen on adfarms, so I went hunting in one of the more odious installations, in Sanddalgi. Upon arrival, though, I'm engulfed in a spew of huge particles, spamming half the sim from a prim on one of the adplots. Eventually the particles rezzed to legibility: the spammer is complaining that her 16sqm plot was encroached on by some stray prim left on a neighboring landowner's parcel. The scheme is apparently to get as many of the sim residents to AR the particle-spamming prim so LL will read the particles and remove the encroaching prim along with the particle-spamming prim.

OK, well, not the sleaziest thing an adplot owner's ever done to their neighbors, but I happened to notice that this adspammer belongs to something called the Second Life Business Bureau. Huh. That sounds just like the sort of organization the benefits of which I was preparing to argue. Why would a member of such an organization be doing something so irresponsible?

So, I decided to see who else is in that group. (Huh. The partner of my old boss at a Very big Gaming enterprise for which I built a few casinos back in the day. And whaddya know? They're still listed on the WSE.) Ah: one member is a frequent contributor to this forum, who's profile has a handy Pick to a place on Business Bureau Isle. (Who knew they had a whole "Isle"?) TP there, to a greeting of: After my giggling fit subsided, I looked around the Isle, and right next door: a "Bank"... no, make that two "Banks"! Huh. I wonder what would attract a "bank" to an address like Business Bureau Isle?

So, all in all, I didn't come away from my research feeling reassured about responsible business practices in SL.

Has anyone else seen a need for some form of impartial trust network of in-world businesses? And if so, does anyone have any ideas how such a thing might form?

Sure, there's a definite need. Look at all the horrors out there!

But finding the 'impartial' is a bit like finding a virgin at a rock concert.

I'm not sure what would be worse. People clearly into evaluating business reputations for personal gain, or those who thought they could do it impartially because they were simply righteous enough.

* * * * *

There are already some pretty good 'biased' trust networks. Some of my longtime friends and I are part of them. You bet, we prefer certain businesses (our friends).

But we aren't shy to make that clear, and we can pretty much vouch for each other. As in: if our friends screw you, we'd put our money where our mouth was when we recommended them. Then deal with the friend ourselves, later.

I'm not saying this is the best way. But sadly, it's the best we've got right now.

Not one of the so-called 'business bureaus' managed to red flag Ginko when it was taking deposits but not paying a dime, and subsequently collapsed.

That should clearly inform the difference between open, honest and 'biased' trust networks, and supposedly impartial ones.

At risk at getting drawn and quartered we dont prejudge people. I personally would not like to see any banks or stock exchanges as members of slbb but being a part of a merchants guild doen'st give us the right to dictate things and refuse people with no proof of wrong doings.

If you have a problem with a merchant there you can file a complaint and despite what rumours exist it will get investigated properly.

Anyhow since I expect the usual troll to come after me i wont be replying beyond this, but if you have a legitimate complaint please DO file it. SLBB members are not protected from wrong doings and are subject to harsher judgement actualy then those who are not a member of SLBB.

you can fill out a complain for ingame or you can wait the server broke last night and file it on the website.

I trust word of mouth of the people I trust completely. For example, if Sarah Nerd vouches for someone, I assume they are a good egg. Most people earn my trust through their actions. Longevity does not hurt either.

its something I would love to have.
In the UK we have things like Investors In People awards that if a business has and passes the required standard each term then people and indeed by default customers know its a good business with superb ethics.

A bit like resturants that have awards etc. A seal of quality.

But for it to have any 'real' authenticity it would have to be monitored and run by LL and the chances of them getting involved are ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOO and a big fat one at that.

Side note:

Im kinda sick of being treat and spoke to like a naughty school girl by concierge when I ask for help ( which btw has been about 3 times in my 4 yrs in SL ) I am a PAYING CUSTOMER any other 'business' would have a proper customer care dept that you could ring and the staff would talk to you like a respected customer

Twice now at Live chat with Concierge I was once screamed at in capitals because the woman couldnt give me a date when my check had been processed and just kept saying
15 WORKING DAYS 15 WORKING DAYS
The second time was 2 griefers and thiefs who were on my land and banned because of multiple suspicious behavior only to TO back and remain bouncing around the corner of the sim for 6 hours ( probably still stealing - long story )
And I was 'told' to AR them. I explained that BTW the time LL got that report and replied the damage would be done and couldnt someone just come out and remove them from the edge of my sim trapped between ban line and no mans land?
" AB them LillyBeth"
She said over and over.

That it!

Christ do these ppl get paid???

Its disgusting how we're treat by LL on that front. Like f**king kids...annoying ones at that.

Im not saying I deserve preferential treatment but just to be respected as someone that contributes $195 a month to their service ( which is another story! ) in other words paying customer
Not a 'resident' I hate being refered to as a resident its patronising Im a CUSTOMER using their service.

Thats it..rant over

Well here I am. the 'rumor' (lol) is that they add their own biased editorial to complaints from their board members, display negative literature about business owners in the lobby of their building and charge $1,000L for people to join their group. The Fan Club does not concern themselves with the DOCUMENTED wrong doings of this mis-guided un-offical group.

But instead of constantly complaining about the SLBB I created a group for business people to join FREE OF CHARGE. I feel that we need to stress the positive busness activities in Secoind Life and not use our influence to bully and intimidate. The group is:

CONNECT: Virtual Business Professionals.
Mission Statement: A networking and education group for virtual retailers, service providers, realtors and venue owners. Group is used to inform members of education sessions, new virtual business solutions and to share best practices.

Members will work to develop a volunteer mediation program and publish information on virtual business best practices.

CONNECT Officers: Act as mentors to new business people in SL, assist in publishing the bi-monthly Best Virtual Business Practices Journal, facilitate events on the monthly calendar and coordinate the design sessions for the CONNECT Volunteer Mediation Program. To become a CONNECT Officer please contact Lias Leandros.

I have been working on a Calendar of event sfolks can attend for free. Some discussion and groups would be:

-SL Business Self policing vs. Blacklisting
-IMAGE: Designing logos and print advertising for your business
-The Land Business - how it works
-Learn To Earn: Developing Skilled Workers
-Mediation: How to resolve disputes successfully
-Round Table: Best Business Practices in SL
-Group Dynamics: Developing, mainataining and expanding groups in SL
-NEW BUSINESS NETWORK:Business owners gather, exchange and socialize.
A work in progress and a few members to date.

This is certainly true, and it works pretty well for folks who've been in-world a while (or at least know to read the forums--and read a little between the lines). But for newer residents, it's pretty difficult--I'm thinking of the several friends who recommended Ginko bank to me, who were perfectly well-intentioned and otherwise reliable, just quite wrong in that case (while the forums already had plenty of cautionary copy posted).

Another inevitable but kinda sad thing is that, in order to be trusted, you have to have been around a while--as in RL. It's not like we can administer the MMPI to figure out a priori who's gonna cheat. That suggests to me that it should be difficult for a new resident to start with a business like Estate rentals with large up-front purchase prices; being trusted with a lot of L$s from other residents should be something one earns over time, it would seem. As in RL.

To Wil: I really have no vendetta against the SLBB; I never heard of them before last night. But if I were setting up a business network, I don't think I'd have a sim that I had to rent out to other businesses. Even if every business on the sim is good as gold, it's a problem of appearances. And selection by ability to pay rent doesn't seem a very effective process for ensuring integrity. I was rather hoping that SLBB was the kind of trust network I sought, but appearances leave me with doubts.

To bladyblue: I think the group sounds very interesting and useful as an educational network--which may be the best for which we can hope at this point. (The limitation, of course, is that anyone can join--which is perfect for educational purposes, but problematic for identifying those businesses that have earned trust.) I kinda think I may join, just to get less naive about the whole subject.

To LillyBeth: It certainly would help if the Lindens could get involved, but I'm not sure that without it nothing of value can be done. I'm thinking that RL trust networks exist without government sponsorship (although maybe that subtly depends on government's authority to enforce basic business laws, I'm not sure). (And sorry to hear about the problems with Concierge support; maybe LL needs some "business education" too. What do I mean, "maybe"? )

And as always, Des hits it right on the head. (Although, I think I *can* spot the virgins at a rock concert--but that would be what the vampires call a "trade secret." ) Certainly I for one wouldn't want to set myself up as an arbiter of ethics, and it's quite right to be suspicious of anyone who would self-nominate to such a role: self-interested or self-righteous, either would be a risk.

I hadn't really thought about it, but the Ginko meltdown is illustrative of the limits of any Angie's List-like approach. Unless there were a way to audit the accounts of in-world financial services there doesn't seem to be any objective way to assess their ability to act responsibly--and even that wouldn't address their intent. I'm sure that thousands of Ginko customers would have given them a positive rating... and those raters would themselves have been reliable... right up till the whole thing went kaboom.

(At first I thought the same limitation applied to something like real estate, just because such ventures hold a lot of other residents' capital, but auditing isn't as crucial there because at least the assets are manifestly present or not, and an audit wouldn't go far to reveal what the Estate owner might do tomorrow.)

I'm not sure what would be the minimum technical requirement for auditable transactions; right now, I'm thinking about some sort of NPC "escrow" account that could only perform transactions upon approval of multiple other accounts--although I'm not even quite sure what that solves.

Anyway, I've rambled more than enough, yet again. Thanks all for helping me think a bit more clearly, and always eager for more ideas.

None of these groups have any legitimacy, not least because they can't track every single thing about every person or business who joins up.

I'm in the Sellers Guild group because it was a good place to get the heads up about random griefers/ripoff alerts etc, but I also know for a fact (as a witness) that one member of the group is a texture thief who built up a tidy business out of their dishonesty.

I would expect the same in any business related group, you can't background check everyone to the nth degree.

Then if you know who the websites or real artists are tell them. I know of at least 4 RL texture co's that have issued LL take downs on SL stores some stores were repeat offendors.

I think if ppl have suspicions they should either approach the person direct and/or alert the original artist as apposed to discussing it with friends or even strangers.
There maybe a legitimate reason the images are on display or a case of mistaken identity or for the case of TRU we have 30+ artists and so they are all responsible for their own copyright

However if someone alerts me to an image thats clearly not meant to be distributed then its removed and if its a massive breach the artist is banned from TRU.

I have had 2 'claims' of theft which had the people asked 1st they would of both recieved acopy of the email from the artist who allowed me to distribute in SL ( some very old sets )

TRU also gets some ppl trying to sell textures directly. We ask them to sign a notecard saying that the work is theirs by creation but Ive been stung in the past after paying L$ to discover they were ripped game textures. This was going back 2 yrs of course but it was only brought to my attention only in the last 6 months.

Now if someone wants to resell their artwork as apposed to selling them from TRU I ask to see more evidence PSDs etc.

Of course I dont know who this person is but I know one store that used Traffic Bots to drum up a 30,000 traffic and ALL of their txtrs ( and I mean all so its not an oversight infact I doubt they even own a paint program) are off the net and/or ripped game txtrs.

The sad thing is because of their scammed traffic, its the noobs that get scammed, paying 350L for 10 txtrs they could find off thet net free. Its one thing to charge 10L for the upload fee for something thats found free on the net but to make a profit off their ignorance is quite another.

Report them not to LL as they dont give a fig plus only the creator or artist can file a DMCA ( or some-one acting on their behalf )