What computer should I get?
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Soen Eber
Registered User
Join date: 3 Aug 2006
Posts: 428
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07-13-2008 17:13
My current 3-year old desktop computer is still going strong, but its starting to get wobbly under Second Life and there are some windlight features I am unable to use. I also want to start getting into 3D rendering software so I need some decent specs anyways. (AMD Athlon 3000+ running at 2.04, 1 Gig RAM, NVidia GeForce FX 5700 LE, 250 watt power supply).
So - looking for suggestions/recommendations. Price is fairly flexible but I want to keep it sane (yes, I know that's a subjective measure ;-P).
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-13-2008 17:14
pretty much any middle of the road or higher end puter you can get at a retail outfit should be able to handle SL.
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Soen Eber
Registered User
Join date: 3 Aug 2006
Posts: 428
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07-13-2008 17:39
Yeah ... well ... I was hoping for something that would love windlight and 3D rendering, and get people talking about specs and stuff.
I KNOW just about any retail computer can handle SL, but I want one that excels, not just manges. For example, I'm a content creator and I miss being able to have multiple sessions logged in to test stuff, and I want to do that again. My system just won't handle that anymore with the upgrades. And I want to see what this mysterious "glow" setting actually does. And did I mention shadows? I know its not even in the RC right now but that stuff is coming, they're really going to give us as much power graphically as we can handle, and being a visual kind of guy who builds visual kind of stuff I want to see it.
So - what kind of power supply? 350? 450? Graphics: of course NVidia, but which one, and its gotta be a card that's built for gaming and isn't a half-assed compromise to fill a marketing hole. How much memory? And what boards can handle decent upgrades? My current board can only go to 1.5 Gig, for example. SL really grabs the CPU and runs with it, so its gotta be one that can stand chronic abuse and so does the cooling systtem; I don't want a system that's built primarily for web surfing and email.
OK, sure, I could go into Best Buy and buy a Gamer's Rig. But let me guess - you mention "Gaming Computer" and the prebuilt systems automatically pad $150 on the cost because they can, right, like the car makers could with trucks and SUVs?
I need some schooling on this. I'm putting out at least $1000 and maybe $1500, I want to know more about my system and what options are available, so maybe I can tweak it for where I think I'm running with this system, and get something that's good for me and not just buy a black box with magic blue smoke inside.
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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07-13-2008 17:55
From: Soen Eber My current 3-year old desktop computer is still going strong, but its starting to get wobbly under Second Life and there are some windlight features I am unable to use. I also want to start getting into 3D rendering software so I need some decent specs anyways. (AMD Athlon 3000+ running at 2.04, 1 Gig RAM, NVidia GeForce FX 5700 LE, 250 watt power supply). So - looking for suggestions/recommendations. Price is fairly flexible but I want to keep it sane (yes, I know that's a subjective measure ;-P). Dell Precision Workstations and the Dell XPS or Alienware (espeically the Alienware ALX's) are great for rendering software....and fine with SL. Even though their support can drive one crazy at times, Dell's warranty is the best. The best support is for the Dell Precision Workstation Gold Support purchased from business department. XPS AND Alienware is also good support during normal US business hours.
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Solar Legion
Darkness from Light
Join date: 9 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
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07-13-2008 18:04
My own computer doesn't have many problems with SL - it's about two years old now. Haven't tried it with dedicated 3D rendering programs yet, but here's the specs (with a note added in):
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (2793 MHz) [NOTE: This is actually a Pentium-D CPU] Memory: 2046 MB [NOTE: Hardware memory. Virtual memory is about 6GB so it's really closer to 8+GB] OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: Radeon X1300/X1550 Series [NOTE: X1300]
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Shirley Marquez
Ethical SLut
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 788
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07-13-2008 18:13
You have asked a very open-ended question, so it's hard to give a precise answer. But here are some guidelines anyway...
Video card: for a serious SL computer an NVidia 8800GT is the lowest-end card you should be considering now. You should be able to get one for under $150. The 9800GTX would be a moderate step-up from there; I've seen them for at little as $200. If you've got more money to spend, you could think about an SLI setup or a 9800GX2 (essentially an SLI pair of 9800GTX cards on a single board).
You weren't asking about budget systems, but for those on even more limited budgets an 8600GT or a 9600GT aren't bad. But I'd think I'd stretch to the 8800GT if at all possible.
CPU: At a moderate budget, the Core 2 Duo E7200 (2.53GHz, $129 or less) and E8400 (3.00 GHz, $189 or less) are both very nice. If you're willing to spend more, go quad. At the $200 level choosing between the E8400 and the Q6600 is tough; with a little more to spend you could step up to a Q9300 ($250) or a Q9450 ($300). Beyond that it's diminishing returns.
AMD CPUs can't quite match the general performance of Intel at the moment, but you can still do well if you're an AMD fan. With AMD's line price is an excellent performance guideline; they've done a good job of scaling the price and performance to match. If you're looking at a triple or quad core model, make sure to get one with a model number ending in "50" rather than "00"; the latter (earlier design) have a bug that seriously hurts performance unless you're running Linux.
Balancing CPU and video: my personal guideline for a balanced gaming system is to spend about the same amount of money on each, plus or minus a bit.
Motherboard: stick with quality brands and it's hard to go too badly wrong; just make sure to choose one with a reasonably modern chipset, rather than something that's been lying around for a long time. Check the CPU compatibility (look online, literature that comes with the board is almost certain to be out of date) if in doubt about whether the motherboard supports the CPU you want. Asus, MSI, and Gigabyte are all good choices. Intel sells motherboards under its own brand as well; they are good if you're planning to run your CPU at stock speed, but no good for overclocking because their BIOSes don't usually offer much flexibility.
If you're thinking about putting together an SLI setup now or later, make sure to buy a compatible motherboard.
Memory: 2GB at the very least. 32-bit Windows can't use more than 3GB, but the next buying step up from 2GB is 4GB, and it's still pretty cheap. (The extra gigabyte just goes to waste until you upgrade to a 64-bit OS; in the Windows world, I don't recommend that yet for most users.) At moderate price levels I'd stick with DDR2/800 memory; you pay a big price premium for DDR2/1066 to get a very small performance gain, and you'll get more bang for your buck spending the $50 or $100 elsewhere.
OS: unless you're having something custom built, you're pretty much stuck with Vista, though you might find some old stock systems with XP. Fortunately, by now Vista works OK; you'll need more RAM than an equivalent XP system would need, but if you have 2GB or more you'll be fine.
Other stuff: buy a DVD burner; you'll need some sort of optical drive anyway and it's only $30-35. Don't bother with a sound card unless you plan to set up a serious music listening or movie watching system or play games other than Second Life; the compressed sounds used in Second Life aren't high enough quality to justify the expense. Get a decent USB headset if you want to do SL voice; it's the lowest hassle way to go. If you choose to go with a non-USB headset you'll want a sound card, because the inputs on most motherboards are awful. Get a good keyboard and mouse; your hands will thank you.
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Soen Eber
Registered User
Join date: 3 Aug 2006
Posts: 428
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07-13-2008 20:25
Perfect! Exactly what I was looking for, thankyou. (heads off to Tiger Direct to play with configurations)
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Anya Ristow
Vengeance Studio
Join date: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,243
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07-13-2008 20:47
A quiet, energy-efficient computer for about US$1070 delivered (if you're in the US), if you're willing to build it yourself or know a geek who'll do it for you: Case: Antec Solo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129018This is a favorite among quiet computing enthusiasts. PSU: ENERMAX PRO82+ 425W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194033Also popular for silent computing, and more than enough for a video card more powerful than the one I'm going to recommend. Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337Will not do SLI, but if you decide to go that way you're only out $90 for this board. IMO SLI sucks too much juice (generates too much heat and noise) for a system you'll have powered on for non-gaming tasks. CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037With the above motherboard you can under-volt (not under-clock) this CPU for additional power savings. Very efficient and fast. CPU cooler: Scythe SCNJ-1100P (Ninja) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038With the above processor you don't need a fan on this heatsink. It comes with a good one, though, and you'll use that fan to replace the exhaust fan on the case. You don't absolutely need it, but there's a bolt-thru kit for a different manufacturer's CPU cooler that works wonderfully for this cooler. Easier to install and more secure, and I've included it in my cost estimate: http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=3605Video card: ECS N9600GT-512MX-P GeForce 9600 GT 512MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134040The 9600 gives performance almost as good as an 8800 but uses less power and generates less heat. Silent computing enthusiasts like to put an Accelero passive cooler on the 9600 (and also the 8800), and this card comes with one already on it. Kinda pricey, and you can get an 8800 instead for this price if you want. I got this when it was on sale. Fan: Scythe SY1225SL12L 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185057You'll mount this on the back of your hard drive cage. It'll draw cool air in the case, across your HD (which doesn't really need it, but whatever), and blow on your video card and motherboard. Unlike the fan on most video cards, this one is large, low-rpm, and you won't hear it. That's the whole point of getting a video card without a fan. Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122Hard drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218Probably overkill, but this is a nice, quiet drive. DVD Burner: SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154OS: Win Vista Home Premium, OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116485Be aware that OEM copies can not be moved to a new computer. If you make too many simultaneous upgrades to your computer Microsoft will refuse to authenticate it. Full versions are more expensive. You probably won't build this system, but I thought you'd like to know you can get premium parts (in this case optimized for silence) for the low end of your price range. Use that to compare what you'll get from Dell or whatnot. Edit: The easiest place to save money here is on the case and power supply, if silence isn't your goal. And even if it is. The Solo/Enermax combo is pretty expensive, and Antec sells cases with perfectly good power supplies for $130 or so.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-13-2008 21:09
From: Shirley Marquez You have asked a very open-ended question, so it's hard to give a precise answer. But here are some guidelines anyway... Video card: for a serious SL computer an NVidia 8800GT is the lowest-end card you should be considering now. You should be able to get one for under $150. The 9800GTX would be a moderate step-up from there; I've seen them for at little as $200. If you've got more money to spend, you could think about an SLI setup or a 9800GX2 (essentially an SLI pair of 9800GTX cards on a single board). You weren't asking about budget systems, but for those on even more limited budgets an 8600GT or a 9600GT aren't bad. But I'd think I'd stretch to the 8800GT if at all possible. CPU: At a moderate budget, the Core 2 Duo E7200 (2.53GHz, $129 or less) and E8400 (3.00 GHz, $189 or less) are both very nice. If you're willing to spend more, go quad. At the $200 level choosing between the E8400 and the Q6600 is tough; with a little more to spend you could step up to a Q9300 ($250) or a Q9450 ($300). Beyond that it's diminishing returns. AMD CPUs can't quite match the general performance of Intel at the moment, but you can still do well if you're an AMD fan. With AMD's line price is an excellent performance guideline; they've done a good job of scaling the price and performance to match. If you're looking at a triple or quad core model, make sure to get one with a model number ending in "50" rather than "00"; the latter (earlier design) have a bug that seriously hurts performance unless you're running Linux. Balancing CPU and video: my personal guideline for a balanced gaming system is to spend about the same amount of money on each, plus or minus a bit. Motherboard: stick with quality brands and it's hard to go too badly wrong; just make sure to choose one with a reasonably modern chipset, rather than something that's been lying around for a long time. Check the CPU compatibility (look online, literature that comes with the board is almost certain to be out of date) if in doubt about whether the motherboard supports the CPU you want. Asus, MSI, and Gigabyte are all good choices. Intel sells motherboards under its own brand as well; they are good if you're planning to run your CPU at stock speed, but no good for overclocking because their BIOSes don't usually offer much flexibility. If you're thinking about putting together an SLI setup now or later, make sure to buy a compatible motherboard. Memory: 2GB at the very least. 32-bit Windows can't use more than 3GB, but the next buying step up from 2GB is 4GB, and it's still pretty cheap. (The extra gigabyte just goes to waste until you upgrade to a 64-bit OS; in the Windows world, I don't recommend that yet for most users.) At moderate price levels I'd stick with DDR2/800 memory; you pay a big price premium for DDR2/1066 to get a very small performance gain, and you'll get more bang for your buck spending the $50 or $100 elsewhere. OS: unless you're having something custom built, you're pretty much stuck with Vista, though you might find some old stock systems with XP. Fortunately, by now Vista works OK; you'll need more RAM than an equivalent XP system would need, but if you have 2GB or more you'll be fine. Other stuff: buy a DVD burner; you'll need some sort of optical drive anyway and it's only $30-35. Don't bother with a sound card unless you plan to set up a serious music listening or movie watching system or play games other than Second Life; the compressed sounds used in Second Life aren't high enough quality to justify the expense. Get a decent USB headset if you want to do SL voice; it's the lowest hassle way to go. If you choose to go with a non-USB headset you'll want a sound card, because the inputs on most motherboards are awful. Get a good keyboard and mouse; your hands will thank you. From: Anya Ristow A quiet, energy-efficient computer for about US$1070 delivered (if you're in the US), if you're willing to build it yourself or know a geek who'll do it for you: Case: Antec Solo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129018 This is a favorite among quiet computing enthusiasts. PSU: ENERMAX PRO82+ 425W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194033 Also popular for silent computing, and more than enough for a video card more powerful than the one I'm going to recommend. Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337 Will not do SLI, but if you decide to go that way you're only out $90 for this board. IMO SLI sucks too much juice (generates too much heat and noise) for a system you'll have powered on for non-gaming tasks. CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 With the above motherboard you can under-volt (not under-clock) this CPU for additional power savings. Very efficient and fast. CPU cooler: Scythe SCNJ-1100P (Ninja) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038 With the above processor you don't need a fan on this heatsink. It comes with a good one, though, and you'll use that fan to replace the exhaust fan on the case. You don't absolutely need it, but there's a bolt-thru kit for a different manufacturer's CPU cooler that works wonderfully for this cooler. Easier to install and more secure, and I've included it in my cost estimate: http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=3605 Video card: ECS N9600GT-512MX-P GeForce 9600 GT 512MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134040 The 9600 gives performance almost as good as an 8800 but uses less power and generates less heat. Silent computing enthusiasts like to put an Accelero passive cooler on the 9600 (and also the 8800), and this card comes with one already on it. Kinda pricey, and you can get an 8800 instead for this price if you want. I got this when it was on sale. Fan: Scythe SY1225SL12L 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185057 You'll mount this on the back of your hard drive cage. It'll draw cool air in the case, across your HD (which doesn't really need it, but whatever), and blow on your video card and motherboard. Unlike the fan on most video cards, this one is large, low-rpm, and you won't hear it. That's the whole point of getting a video card without a fan. Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122 Hard drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218 Probably overkill, but this is a nice, quiet drive. DVD Burner: SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154 OS: Win Vista Home Premium, OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116485 Be aware that OEM copies can not be moved to a new computer. If you make too many simultaneous upgrades to your computer Microsoft will refuse to authenticate it. Full versions are more expensive. You probably won't build this system, but I thought you'd like to know you can get premium parts (in this case optimized for silence) for the low end of your price range. Use that to compare what you'll get from Dell or whatnot. Edit: The easiest place to save money here is on the case and power supply, if silence isn't your goal. And even if it is. The Solo/Enermax combo is pretty expensive, and Antec sells cases with perfectly good power supplies for $130 or so. shazaam! 
_____________________
it was fun while it lasted. http://2lf.informe.com/
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Jennifer Boyle
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 15
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This is information is very helpful, but...
07-25-2008 20:59
From: Shirley Marquez You have asked a very open-ended question, so it's hard to give a precise answer. But here are some guidelines anyway...
QUOTE]
my problem is figuring out (1) Is there any upgrade I could do that would improve my SL experience, and (2) Which upgrade would give me the most improvement for the money. I have read everything I could find that might address these issues, and I am still in the dark.
My computer:
Antec 650 watt PSU EVGA 780i motherboard, which supports: Quad core processors with up to 1.3 gHz FSB 8 Gb DDR2 1200 mHz RAM SLI with up to 3 graphics cards Core 2 Duo E6600 CPU Nvidia 8800 GTX grapics adapter with 768 MB 2 7200 RPM 3.0 GBps HSs in RAID 1 array 64 bit Vista Business
I have a 6 MBps DSL connection; it isn't unusual the see file downloads at 6 mbps.
I know this is a pretty good system already, but I don't know that my SL experience is as good as it can be. If, for a reasonable amount of money, I can improve it, I want to. OTOH, I don't want to spend a lot of money for nothing.
Obviously, there is a big choice of possible upgrades, and I don't know if any of them would help. I could get a faster quad core CPU; I could get 1 or 2 more graphics cards (and maybe a bigger PSU) and run SLI; I could get a more advanced graphics card (or 3); I could expand RAM to 6 or 8 GB; I could get faster RAM; I could ger faster HDs.
Can anyone make a suggestion about ehat would help, or about how to figuire out what would help?
Thanks.
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Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
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07-25-2008 21:08
You will need atleat an NVidia 8600 512mb video card 8800 is way better and a min of 2 gigs ram as far as the cpu goes a 2 to 3ghz will be cool but get a dual core NOT a quad core. Thats about all the important stuff really any puter that has atleast that should rock 
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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07-25-2008 21:16
Its been 2 weeks since the OP - I bet they got the computer already.
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Karl Herber
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 228
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07-26-2008 00:13
From: Jennifer Boyle My computer:
Antec 650 watt PSU EVGA 780i motherboard, which supports: Quad core processors with up to 1.3 gHz FSB 8 Gb DDR2 1200 mHz RAM SLI with up to 3 graphics cards Core 2 Duo E6600 CPU Nvidia 8800 GTX grapics adapter with 768 MB 2 7200 RPM 3.0 GBps HSs in RAID 1 array 64 bit Vista Business
I have a 6 MBps DSL connection; it isn't unusual the see file downloads at 6 mbps.
I want your computer  And your DSL connection. If I had money to burn I'd upgrade the graphics card (yours is the same as the one I have now) to whatever nVidia one I could afford, but in all seriousness and practicality, if I had that hardware I would not be concerned about upgrading yet.
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http://karlherber.wordpress.com/
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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07-28-2008 08:49
Jennifer,
That's a great system already. Forget the upgrades, spend the money on hair and clothes.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there. Lindal Kidd
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Jennifer Boyle
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 15
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Thanks
07-30-2008 08:07
Thanks for the input.
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
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07-30-2008 08:30
To paraphrase what Brenda once told someone (I think it was she?): "Get the red one, they go faster" 
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really pissy & mean right now and NOT happy with Life.
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Conan Godwin
In ur base kilin ur d00ds
Join date: 2 Aug 2006
Posts: 3,676
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07-30-2008 10:57
My advice - build it from scratch. It's pretty simple, and all the individual components have their own warranties anyway.
While it is a myth that you can build a cheaper computer than buying one, it is true that you can build a better value for money computer than buying one - the two are not the same. When you buy an off-the-shelf PC it often comes with software bundled that you never use - this is not free, you have paid for it, it's included in the price.
If you build one yourself you can make sure you are only paying for the things you actually want, for about the same price as an off-the-shelf pc.
Some people worry about not having the overall technical support that you get by buying an OEM off-the-shelf pc. Personally, in nearly 20 years of owning PCs I have yet to need technical support from anyone for anything. Most problems can be fixed yourself anyway - except hardware problems, which are covered by the hardware component's warranty anyway.
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From: Raindrop Cooperstone hateful much? dude, that was low. die. .
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Allison Selene
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2006
Posts: 112
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07-30-2008 11:02
From: Shirley Marquez OS: unless you're having something custom built, you're pretty much stuck with Vista, though you might find some old stock systems with XP. Fortunately, by now Vista works OK; you'll need more RAM than an equivalent XP system would need, but if you have 2GB or more you'll be fine.
Unless she gets a Mac, in which case she can run OSX and install XP too.
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
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07-30-2008 14:16
From: Conan Godwin While it is a myth that you can build a cheaper computer than buying one,
Not so! http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8392232Add $40 for a case, $82 for Windows XP Pro, and it's still under $700  Even the cheapest Dell & Mac can't beat that one 
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really pissy & mean right now and NOT happy with Life.
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