Is a warning enough?

I've seen it around a lot, and was wondering if this is a loop-hole to the Disclosure clause:

Can people state:

"By IM'ing or talking to me in any way, having read or not read these statements, you automatically consent to being logged, and said logs can be shared or used in any way, shape, or form I deem fit; without any notice or pleading of permission from me. "

Can they state that in their profile, picks, first life, or any tab, and automatically be absolved of requiring permission from someone to use their logs?

There is an argument that anything one sends out becomes the property of the next, but I think that relates to email. And I'm sure many people would sue anyway. So it depends - do you mean legally or according to Linden Labs? They're not the same thing.

Then, you have to prove the person 'disclosed'. Note cards/chat logs can be altered. Etc.

I'm talking about the Community Standards:

"Disclosure
Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums."

According to that, which would be according to LL, I suppose.

No. The LL terms and "Community Standards" would still apply". Those are agreements between each user and LL; LL can enforce that agreement.

I've always thought it was not ok to post IMs unless you asked in world and fine to repost comments on forums as they have a quote tag.

I can't figure out what that warning is trying to accomplish. It certainly doesn't protect them to state that and then use quotes "in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums." And on the other hand, they need no warning nor permission to use quotes outside of Second Life or these Forums.

I'm sure it wouldn't prevent LL from holding them to account for breaking TOS, should a disclosure complaint be upheld.

What such a statement in a profile would do for me is warn me well away from the person, as I'd probably think they were completely up themselves, and would take it to mean they are untrustworthy and likely to disclose private conversations just to be malicious.
--
Aes

If I see a statement like that, I'm assuming that person likes to stir up drama and should be avoided if at all possible.

I can say in my profile that I am the Supreme Queen Dog of Second Life with God powers if I feel like it, but that doesn't mean I can do things any other resident can't do (though if you want to be able to pee on stuff like I do, you need the proper attachments).

I have to agree with Puppet.

I have seen that comment on several "slaves" profiles so i gather they send their logs to their so called Master or Mistress

"By reading this post, having read or not read the rest of this sentence, you automatically consent to wearing a chicken hat and doing the polka at any social gathering I choose, without any notice or pleading of permission from me."

What a crock.

I log everything.

I don't tell anybody about it in my profile...what a rude and unsociable thing to do!

I never publish or forward any of my logged material...UNLESS I need it to support an AR.


Yes, if you talk to me, I keep a record of it. I assume that everyone else does too, and I don't worry about it. It's just an aid to memory.

I had heard/read this somewhere and at that point vowed to never talk to any of those folks.

Ditto.

Logging, in and of itself, does not have to be disclosed to anyone or need any consent. However, the person cannot show those logs to anyone except LL without EXPLICIT consent from the other people involved in the conversation.

Don't worry, I'm in complete agreement to the consensus; I don't make friends with people who have these things said in their profile, because to me it's a load of crap, and I say a lot of things that I don't want repeated exactly word for word - Just because they feel safe that they said it's okay automatically.

Are you seeing this in Gor or some other roleplay environment?

I ask because in RP, people often use IM and chat logs to resolve disputes.

God no, not Gor, but for the most part, this is with English strains of CCS sims, and a few other combat/roleplay area's.

Though the profiles of the people I usually read it in, are not for the purpose of resolving disputes; it sounds more like just a crock to justify their sharing logs.

...Like it's some sort of automatic contract, whether or not you've read it, whether or not you agree to it.

There are two problems with such a notice.

First, if you did not read the notice, you cannot be bound by it. How does the person prove you read the profile before chatting?

Second, the TOS provide a contract between LL and each individual user. For the user to do something different than what the TOS states, the user needs express consent from LL, not other random users.

It's kinda complicated actually, once you get off the platform. For just the United States:

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/quick.html

The people with that nonsense in their profile better make reaaaaaally sure that posting a notice in their profile will validate consent (it doesn't).

Regardless of that, though... be careful what you gift people with ~ even your words. Once you give someone something, be prepared for unintended consequences.

As an example:

http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/AP_Man_can_sue_sperm_theft_distress_24FEB05.aspx

Note: Above link may have some medical terms not recommended for juveniles or the immature.

So true. US law is totally crazy and who knows how things are in other countries. I guess I did forget to qualify my statements with it only applying on SL grid/sites

If they violate LL's disclosure sections of the ToS ... meaning, within the purview of LL's influence (SL itself, the SL forums or blogs, or now XStreetSL), no. Period. The GTeam will effectively and efficiently apply corrective action as appropriate, disclaimer notwithstanding.

Jessicka - yes I know you were referring to disclosure. I was saying what Desmond and LittleMe were saying later in the thread.

LL enforcing some of its rules sometimes runs into hard ground depending on laws of the user's home country superceding it. Enough said on that one.

It gets a bit tricky but the upshot is the user could find themself in hot water with Linden Labs and unless they had the inclination to splash about a lot, and get a lawyer and all that, might end up staying there.

That said - consider yourself warned if you see that in someone's profile, and don't tell them any secrets.

Things like this are one reason I share zero info online (or next to zero). You never know who's keeping info, or why, and I've run into some crazies over the years. Doesn't matter if something actually 'happens' - wondering about it has already taken more time and stress than I wish to part/be inflicted/ with. Moral of the story, try not to say anything in IM about yourself or anyone else that you wouldn't want trumpeted all over the grid/even the internet, because it just might end up being.

As for why people do that (log IMs) it may be for self protection (they run a business) or future reference (is so and so telling five stories at once), or to keep a record of any skirmish in case it bloats later. Some do it for roleplay information in case they forget anything. Who can remember what fictional town someone is from, or how many wives they have there, or their pet's names. But you can bet the person will want you to know next time you meet.

Sharing IM logs in local chat or disclosing real life info someone confided in you is verboten by LL rules, but people do it anyway. Moral of that story? Don't give it in the first place.

(ETA: and this is my 1,000th post. Woot? Lol)

(Oh - and Windsweptgold is also right - some slaves are 'ordered' by their 'owners' to report all IM activity to them. This is to avoid misbehavior/cheating/poaching, usually. Or to extend control for its own sake. You should also know it's possible for someone's collar or RLV - which can be unseen - to relay local chat to the slave's owner. And that some people, for various reasons, listen to voice remotely from other sims.)

Little do you mean Slaves/Subs in general or only those who have it in their profile about logging the chat?
I hope you would not judge me in the same lot as those because like Lindal, i log my chat for my benefit. I do not share it with my Master , hell he has enough to do without having to go through hours of my logs and most would bore him.
Any so called Dom who tells their sub to send chat logs, and i know a few, should deal with their own insecurities.

WW: Yeppers most likely, unless it's a kink of their sub/slave's, or a short term punishment/keeping tabs type of thing. Or perhaps limited to someone they've been flirting with. etc.

(Most will simply disable IM in those cases instead)