Maybe the old saying if it looks to good to be true it is /116/1d/305438/1.html
Silly me thought hey i have managed a club before Im not knew I can teach dancers how to be more than ballsitters so what the heck ill enter.
I read the rules posted went through my pics and found one i looked ok in, posted it on the board. I then added the club to my profile and let it go from there. Oh i also had to pay to enter ( i know should of ran). I was in 1st place by a fair amount when all of a sudden the floor dropped out of the club ( no i mean it the floor was missing) as was my pic and the main board showing the leader.
I IM the owners informing them of the issue with the club got a reply from one saying she only owned the land, several days later i contacted the other 2 who were logged in got no reply from one the other said, she has been away just back has no idea about the contest.
I sent the the link and she comments its odd the person who posted in the forum had left the club. She said she would get back to me well still waiting.
I wonder how many other ppl have found these pay to vote comps are a con and that the winner is a friend or the person setting it up does a runner.
Well i will stick wit what i first thought no more comps for me unless its in a club and winner is done there and then.
Oh i still cant wait to hear about what is going on with the above comp ?
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50,000L$ Photo Contest Mystery |
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Windsweptgold Wopat
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
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02-18-2009 14:02
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Morgan Flannery
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 59
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02-18-2009 15:01
Frankly, it seems a bit farfetched to me that anyone would be searching for a club manager based on a photo contest. That makes approximately no financial sense whatsoever - and let's face it, based on the amount of Lindens they claim they want to throw at the winner, they're in it for the money.
For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 15:19
For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. You get cheats and scammers in all walks of life, SL is no different. There are scammers in all types of markets in SL also however we do not consider the whole market to be a scam. How do I know? I create a voting picture contest system which is quite prevalent throughout the grid. I know many of my customers and what uses they put my contest to very well and so I know there are reputable contests. They are not to everyones taste, but that is a completely different thing to whether they are all scams. There is nothing about my contests that are inherently or make it easy to scam. That said anyone can run off with the money they collected from a load of people, regardless of how they collect that money. Do you know who the creator of the contest system was? If it was mine then I would be interested to know. Scamming people breaks TOS/CS and I have no obligation (legal or moral) to continue giving support (including upgrades) to any resident who purchases my contest and is found breaking the TOS/CS with it. |
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Lauralynne Cuddihy
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 163
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02-18-2009 15:20
For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. Amen! |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 15:35
Amen! For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. Then this: I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. If someone is running a fixed contest that takes money from you too - it is always going to be worse than one that is not. Again nothing needs consideration here. I will repeat, these contests do not suit everyone, but that dislike alone is not a reason to publicly denounce all who run these contests honestly. There are scammers but those scammers would use anything to scam with that they could - should we publicly denounce everything a scammer can use? Land for instance? Shops?, Vendor boxes? Websites? The list would be endless. |
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Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
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02-18-2009 15:59
For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. The contestants, on the other hand, are another story entirely. There has not been one single voting contest I have ever been a part of either directly or indirectly, where at least one contestant did not resort to alt-loading, bribery, trickery, and even (in a couple of cases) outright extortion to gain votes. Not. A. Single. One. These contestants cannot be in it for the money, because they actually end up spending more to buy the votes than what they hope to win. One of my family members was in such a contest, and it just happened to be in the same region where I worked, so I would often stand around out there just to watch what went on. I watched as one contestant, would TP out, be gone for a few minutes, then TP back, with a small army of newbies behind her. After a while, the newbies would filter out, then she'd disappear again, coming back a short time later with another small army of newbies. While all this was going on, I noted a few other avatars scattered around the mall area. None of them moved much. I knew the place wasn't employing traffic bots nor had any camping areas available, so I decided to investigate. I approached and casually greeted one of them. No reply. I asked her if she needed any help with anything as I worked there, and she disappeared. Very strange. I decided to log in an alt - a fairly fresh, young-looking thing. Within five seconds of my alt landing, one of these non-moving "bystanders" IM'd me, asking if I'd like to make a quick 500 Lindens! I said, "sure! What do I need to do?" She replied, "Just go over there and vote for my friend over there." And, sure enough, it was the same contestant who had been training in newbies for the better part of the time I'd been watching. I refuse to enter any such contests - not because I believe such contests are fixed or fake, but because of the indescribable behavior of one or two of its contestants! I will never understand why these people resort to such means to win, even to the point of paying out more money than the prize is worth. _____________________
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut. Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 16:17
I'm not going to go to the extreme of saying that all pay-per-vote and picture contests are fixed, phony, or scams. In fact, I believe most of them to be on the level, and the people running them to be good, honest people. That's not to say I don't believe contest scams exist; just that I don't believe they make up even a large minority of these kind of contests being run. The contestants, on the other hand, are another story entirely. There has not been one single voting contest I have ever been a part of either directly or indirectly, where at least one contestant did not resort to alt-loading, bribery, trickery, and even (in a couple of cases) outright extortion to gain votes. Not. A. Single. One. These contestants cannot be in it for the money, because they actually end up spending more to buy the votes than what they hope to win. One of my family members was in such a contest, and it just happened to be in the same region where I worked, so I would often stand around out there just to watch what went on. I watched as one contestant, would TP out, be gone for a few minutes, then TP back, with a small army of newbies behind her. After a while, the newbies would filter out, then she'd disappear again, coming back a short time later with another small army of newbies. While all this was going on, I noted a few other avatars scattered around the mall area. None of them moved much. I knew the place wasn't employing traffic bots nor had any camping areas available, so I decided to investigate. I approached and casually greeted one of them. No reply. I asked her if she needed any help with anything as I worked there, and she disappeared. Very strange. I decided to log in an alt - a fairly fresh, young-looking thing. Within five seconds of my alt landing, one of these non-moving "bystanders" IM'd me, asking if I'd like to make a quick 500 Lindens! I said, "sure! What do I need to do?" She replied, "Just go over there and vote for my friend over there." And, sure enough, it was the same contestant who had been training in newbies for the better part of the time I'd been watching. I refuse to enter any such contests - not because I believe such contests are fixed or fake, but because of the indescribable behavior of one or two of its contestants! I will never understand why these people resort to such means to win, even to the point of paying out more money than the prize is worth. The contestants, on the other hand, are another story entirely. There has not been one single voting contest I have ever been a part of either directly or indirectly, where at least one contestant did not resort to alt-loading, bribery, trickery, and even (in a couple of cases) outright extortion to gain votes. Not. A. Single. One. There is also a huge responsibility on the contest owners (the ones who run the contests) to do the best they can to route out cheaters and ban them. They have a responsibility to their customers to to as much as they can. many find this confrontational and difficult to do and so they let it happen because they do not wish to have confrontations. Also, due to the availability alt accounts it is impossible to know who is cheating all the time. All games and contests suffer from this and sure we could get rid of all thing that can be cheated but that would not be any fun either. One thing to consider is that there is a spectrum of contest owners too, ranging from the totally inept who can barely set the systems up at all to the professional who know all the tricks and cheats people try to pull. These people work extremely hard to keep their contest honest 24 hours a day. The money they get from the contests is hard earned believe me and these are the contests to try to find, though obviously when there are so many it is difficult to know who is good and who is bad. That in itself is a problem. The other problem is that it is difficult to get entry into such a contest because good contest owners are in short supply. Maybe some blog reviewer could do a round up of clubs etc who run public contests of this type to determine the worst and the best for integrity dealings. Give them star ratings? Just an idea for anyone out there. I do understand your frustrations, I share them with you. Thanks for your thoughtful post, I certainly do not think discussion of these things is a bad thing as long as the discussion ends up being reasonably fair on both sides of the equation. |
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Morgan Flannery
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 59
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02-18-2009 16:28
Gabriele, I do see your point, and appreciate that you took my language in the spirit in which it was intended.
Like Katheryne, I've witnessed suspicious and unsportmans-like behavior from contestants in contests like these: I've seen it in modeling competitions, DJ battles, etc. That aspect alone makes me wary of the enterprise to begin with, but I can't personally see a way to do it that doesn't turn it into a sheer popularity contest, as opposed to something based on talent or merit. The reason I said that the contents I've encountered so far seem phony or fishy is ... well ... they do. A modeling contest where the eventual high vote getter was the contest owner's BFF in her profile. A "sexy swimsuit" competition where the owner's partnered lover came out on top. That sort of thing. Granted, my experiences have colored my opinion. I stay away from pay-to-vote contests now. But again, I do see your point. P.S. Morgan is a gender-neutral name here in the States. I'm actually a woman. No worries, I get it all the time.  |
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Elizabeth Barrett
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 107
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02-18-2009 16:33
Frankly, it seems a bit farfetched to me that anyone would be searching for a club manager based on a photo contest. That makes approximately no financial sense whatsoever - and let's face it, based on the amount of Lindens they claim they want to throw at the winner, they're in it for the money. For my part, I've never yet encountered a contest or competition of this nature that didn't seem fixed or phony. I consider the ones that require people to pay to cast their votes to be the worst offenders. just so you know, we just finished a photo contest in here and paid out 20,000 lindens, in addition to 500 lindens to all entries, so NO they are not ALL scams, although i have to assume most are also : P lizzie |
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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02-18-2009 16:35
The first time I saw one of these photo contest things, it only took me a few seconds to see how the incentives would work. It invites the "winner's curse" of any bidding war, particularly one in stages. In competitive bidding for an item, the winner is usually the one who most badly overvalued the item at the subject of the bid.
That's why you'd probably see people paying more money than the prize itself to win. Maybe they initially thought they could win the $50,000L prize by investing $10,000L. So they do. Then a second person sees that, and thinks, they can beat that and win the $50,000L prize by throwing in $11,000L. The first person comes back and sees that someone else has thrown $11,000L at the prize, and decides to dump in $2,000L to protect the initial $10,000L investment. The second person comes back and does the same. At each stage, one can't take one's previously spent money back. So at each stage, it is rational to spend a few more thousand Lindens to protect the investment so far. In a sense, it becomes more rational the longer it goes on. If the first person has already invested $49,000L in winning the prize, and then someone else puts up $50,000L, the first person has a choice: lose $49,000L, or spend $2,000L and have a net loss of only $1,000L. That much of it isn't a scam. That's just how bidding wars work. Now, I don't know what the rules are from these things- if one person has a maximum amount of money that can be spent or whatever. But we do know, I think, there is no way to script something to tell whether one avatar is the alt of another, or is a recruited stranger rather than a friend, or the intent of the voter is to honestly vote for the favorite picture or the intent is just to make money from a bribe. |
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Morgan Flannery
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 59
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02-18-2009 16:52
Amity, that's a way of looking at it that I hadn't considered. I've just been viewing it from the standpoint of the contest operators.
------------------------------------------------------ In all this, I am sort of surprised that no one else seized on the idea of the contest that spawned the thread question: picking a club manager via photo contest. Yay or nay? |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 16:58
Gabriele, I do see your point, and appreciate that you took my language in the spirit in which it was intended. Like Katheryne, I've witnessed suspicious and unsportmans-like behavior from contestants in contests like these: I've seen it in modeling competitions, DJ battles, etc. That aspect alone makes me wary of the enterprise to begin with, but I can't personally see a way to do it that doesn't turn it into a sheer popularity contest, as opposed to something based on talent or merit. The reason I said that the contents I've encountered so far seem phony or fishy is ... well ... they do. A modeling contest where the eventual high vote getter was the contest owner's BFF in her profile. A "sexy swimsuit" competition where the owner's partnered lover came out on top. That sort of thing. Granted, my experiences have colored my opinion. I stay away from pay-to-vote contests now. But again, I do see your point. P.S. Morgan is a gender-neutral name here in the States. I'm actually a woman. No worries, I get it all the time.  hmmm, the thing is these contests are supposed to be popularity contests. I have yet to encounter one that is not based on popularity but if a contest owner is attempting to run one not based on popularity then I would doubt it would work. There are an awful lot of people who don't understand the dynamics of this well and they run contests. I would advise anyone who is thinking of entering a contest which claims it is not based on popularity, to avoid it. I would say I would like to hear from anyone who has been scammed by a contest owner who was using one of my contests. I feel that they are harming the entire area for the honest people. Once again, I understand your trepidation and no one should enter a contest on a whim, check it out first - find out if they have run one before and if it successfully completed. Talk to a previous winner who should be obviously displayed someplace or available upon request from the cotnest owner. |
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Imnotgoing Sideways
Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=
Join date: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4,694
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02-18-2009 17:03
Them: Pay as you ________
Me: Bye bye. (^_^)y _____________________
Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94 |
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Morgan Flannery
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 59
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02-18-2009 17:09
True, popularity is key. But I'm speaking of one's social popularity, and not, say, popular enjoyment of an artwork or a person's ability.
Example: a modeling contest. Should a person win based on their superior, popularly-agreed upon looks? Or should they win based on how many people they can get (via IM, friends list, or Welcome Area persuasion) to go vote for them? I would say the former, but perhaps the setup is really designed to accomodate the latter? Is that what you mean, Gabriele? |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 17:20
Now, I don't know what the rules are from these things- if one person has a maximum amount of money that can be spent or whatever. But we do know, I think, there is no way to script something to tell whether one avatar is the alt of another, or is a recruited stranger rather than a friend, or the intent of the voter is to honestly vote for the favorite picture or the intent is just to make money from a bribe.  To address this part, on my contests at least the amount of L$ is no where near as important as a vote itself - deliberately to avoid contests being won by those who have huge wallets. Most contests are run with a limit of the number of votes allow per day or week. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 17:27
True, popularity is key. But I'm speaking of one's social popularity, and not, say, popular enjoyment of an artwork or a person's ability. Example: a modeling contest. Should a person win based on their superior, popularly-agreed upon looks? Or should they win based on how many people they can get (via IM, friends list, or Welcome Area persuasion) to go vote for them? I would say the former, but perhaps the setup is really designed to accomodate the latter? Is that what you mean, Gabriele? |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-18-2009 17:32
Them: Pay as you ________ Me: Bye bye. (^_^)y The funny thing is these things started out as a nominal L$1 - L$10 "tip" if you liked the picture to give them a vote. That is the true spirit of this type of thing - something that very few would take huge issue over. However like with most forms of abuse it gets ruined both by contestants and by contest owners. The problem with quite a lot of contest owners is that mostly they offer huge prizes to attract contestants and then need to recoup that money to be able to pay. L$1-L$10 amounts don't really help there. Some of the best types of contests are ones where sponsorship has been given and a well known store has donated the prizes for, or running a contest for advertising purposes. The aim here is not necessarily to make huge pots of money but to promote the store and club that gets the sponsorship. So L$1-L$10 "tip" votes are very applicable in this case. |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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02-19-2009 00:48
[...]At each stage, one can't take one's previously spent money back. So at each stage, it is rational to spend a few more thousand Lindens to protect the investment so far. In a sense, it becomes more rational the longer it goes on. If the first person has already invested $49,000L in winning the prize, and then someone else puts up $50,000L, the first person has a choice: lose $49,000L, or spend $2,000L and have a net loss of only $1,000L. That much of it isn't a scam. That's just how bidding wars work.[...] And sometimes, for charity, bidders do this with full foreknowledge that they're doing exactly this--"slave auctions" to benefit some worthy cause, for example. Unfortunately, newer residents can get sucked-in to raw L$-voting contests that are cruel introductions to SL intrigue. Newbies may not really understand, for example, that the account owning the contest board may have another account that's a "competitor." They see it as a way to get feedback on their avatars, a chance at some precious L$s, and an exercise for their growing Friends list. Instead they lose a lot of L$s and some of those Friends, and ultimately their SL innocence--an expensive education. [...] on my contests at least the amount of L$ is no where near as important as a vote itself - deliberately to avoid contests being won by those who have huge wallets. It's not that these contests should be banned or anything, but it seems like a topic for "Smart SL Consumer" training. |