philly inquirer article

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/magazine/20080709_Peopling_the_virtual_world.html

Yay it's me.

Checked out your website too; nice to see how you do things but I do have one concern. I couldn't see any credits on the one that finally downloaded completely. Do you get releases for all the clothing, skins, hair etc that you use? One of the things that has complicated my projects has been to make sure to get film rights to the locations and anything else that shows on screen.

IP rights are being loosely defended at the moment but that will change and I wonder if you had any concern about using SL content.

I might be too careful; do you have any sense of what needs perms to film and what doesn't?
I figured I would be safe and get written perms for everything especially if I was working for a company that had deep pockets. My nightmare was that some content creator would see a machinima and say "hey I didn't give them permission to use my stuff" and sue.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure. I don't think I can answer that. I thought that technically, the images, graphics, what makes it real time belongs to Linden Lab? It would take too much work, effort, hours, and resources to get written consents from every single skin, eye color, clothing, accessory, etc that the avies are wearing. If it was necessary to do that, really, why even bother making Second Life video projects anyway?

It's the same as in real life, if it's a teeshirt or a particular accessory, as long as the brand name isn't on it, it's fine.

Also, look how many Second Life videos were made in the past, and the number that became mainstream from the CSI episode, the office episode, to the Molotov SL Documentary, obviously no one has gotten sued before.

I'd rather spend time on filmmaking rather than getting permissions for everything. Sometimes, I don't even get permissions for locations. I don't think anyone would even put up the effort to sue, unless you're shooting on some big corporation's land like Best Buy. But if you're using skin and clothes from people who literally are only making a few extra dollars when converted from lindens in their paychecks, would they really front the money to get a lawyer?

My opinion is , don't worry, just shoot! The only thing you should ever seek permissions for is for locations probably.

I do like what you did but I don't agree with you about the film rights.

We just send quick note card when we buy something for a shoot and get a notecard back with the perms. It doesn't take that long and most creators are fine with giving perms.

It is a new arena but LL does not own the rights, each content creator does and it is getting to be a big deal. There is a lot of discussion on the forums about it. A content creator can issue a DMCA against you which will cause LL to check out your work to make sure you have not used an artist's work without permission. If you have, LL can ban you from SL. Recently they disabled all the content of a resident because of a DMCA.

As well in one of your works you use a famous comic cover illustrator's work and I'm sure he would have the money to sue you if he knew you had used his image without his permission.

When I did the 48 hr film contest they had me sign a guarantee that we had film rights to the creator content we used as our work would be shown on the web on their site.

I think that if you are shooting for companies it is very important to get the rights.

That being said, I do want to close on a high note and say that I really liked how you set up scenes and how well your stuff was written.

Dnali - I think you are being over-cautious. For a big business with deep pockets, that caution might be needed. Those are the ones that get sued. I have been making videos for over 2 years (http://www.youtube.com/selbyevans) and had no complaints. I always get permission from the principal venue if it is private. I don't get permission for use of Linden land. Torley Linden has blogged favorably about my videos, so the Lindens are aware and approve.

I always get permission from and give credit to the principal performers. These days most of my videos are done on land that I control, so there is no issue of permission. If you want tu use the same land, it is available to you -- just contact Thnkerer Melville in SL -- I will even give you written permission.

As to skins and clothes and things -- they are the property of the person who owns the av and that person has given permission.

Most of the performances on my videos are by people I work with. They view these as ways to get publicity. They dont't want them taked down.

In the context of SL videos taken and posted for little gain, the worst that is likely to happen is that I get a take-down notice that says I have violated copyright. If that ever happens, I take the video down and apologize.

My experience is the converse -- people and venues want to appear in videos.

Sounds like you cover the bases Thinkerer. However, I don't think that the skins, etc are the property of the avatar in the sense that they have total license. They are sold for the limited use of one avatar, not to be presented digitally for profit.

I admit I'm using RL yardstick here as it is the one I'm used to. In film, if something is not attributable (its a kitchen chair like all other kitchen chairs) then its not a problem..but if it is a recognizable one (that chair is obviously the throne used in a Walt Disney movie) you have to get perms.

When I use SL stuff, I'm not really sure what is or is not recognizable. Residence into fashion have amazed me with their ability to recognize who made a certain skin or hair. So I figure, just check first...and I agree with you, content creators are happy to have their work featured. And I don't get perms for every little thing.

Since the law has not come to the wild west town of SL yet I'm not sure what the future legalities will be. My focus would be more on the folks who do the distribution..for example YouTube says when you upload, make sure you have the rights to what you are uploading. And to show on TV, you really have to have your ducks in a row. So it is not a matter of being sued but also in the future of having your work distributed widely.

Thinking the way that you do, would it be okay for someone to take your machinima and use it as they will without your permission?

I just wouldn't feel right to not do it the way I do. I think content creator's rights will grow in the future, not lessen so for me learning to do it this way now makes sense to me.

It doesn't take that much time and I'm covered.

And I would love film perms for your locations! I'll add them to my locations list.

That's a great article. Checked out some of your other vids on your site and they're all very impressive. Very smooth and nice high rez results even as these are optimized for the web. I imagine the original footage is _really_ nice.

I see the article as yet another positive report on Second Life and specifically in this report, using Second Life as a filming platform. =)

Congrats and thanks for letting us know about it.

- Infrared

Actially, when I post on Blip.tv, I specify creative commons license, attribution only. That means anyone can do what they please with it as long as they credit the source.

I am not sure about the terms for sale of skins, etc. I don't think I have seen any written terms. I think that if these things are being sold with some undisclosed limits on use, that action might be fraud.

But you are right to attend to such matters if you plan to collect large amounts of money for the video. Douglas Gayeton sold "My Second Life" to HBO for a "a six-figure" sum. I am sure HBO vetted that one for rights.

As to the land available, I have a list of sites and contacts here:

http://www.thinkerer.org/VideoTech/VidtechSites.htm

The information includes slurls and videos made at that site.

Thinkerer Melville

I don't know. I can only speak from my experience. The only thing I've ever bothered getting rights for is locations. Otherwise, I haven't bothered and will not. There's only one situation where it was a problem, but of all the machinima being produced in Second Life, doesn't look like anyone else had problems.

Doesn't take that long? I'm about to shoot a scene right now for 16 avatars.. if I had to figure out who made each of their skins, shirts, shoes, etc., I wouldn't even bother shooting this.

There is a growing issue about IP rights, especially when big skin creators hit the news when they are ripped off. I agree, I would not like anyone stealing my movies and editing them and adding to them or have them portrayed as their work. Its one of the reasons we put tracking code in each one.

The aspect of movie content, has to be, and always will be, a grey area. Unless someone actually states, not to be used in any broadcasted media, it is assumed okay to use in machinima. Although the DCMA case you refer to Dnali, I believe was using RL media, such as pirated DVD's and bring them into SL.

We are cautious regarding copyright, so create most of our own sets, furniture, animations, scripts, and for the most part, have permissions for probably 90% of things we use. As 90% of the actors are within our own groups, they have already signed a release contract. Even the music we use, is searched via the prolifercation of paid for services, to ascertain copyright status. It is a long and labourus task, but one that must be done. If we cannot find the right music, we either compose it ourselves, or commission one of the many talented artists, available to our groups.

In general, if someone takes a photograph in RL whilst walking up the street, would they then have to stop every car, shopper and passerby, then enter every building seeking permissions to have those in his picture? Andy Wahol screen painted a Cambells soup tin, he didn't get permissions to do so, but made a couple of million when it was sold.

The thing I find somewhat disturbing, is the blatent and carfree attitude towards using music that is 100% copyright protected, in media that makes a profit for those that use it. Copyright is a minefield for sure, but at least anyone who profits from using other peoples media, or protected goods, must at least checkout with the creators, owners, producers, that it okay to use it.

We have only once persued one person for stealing our media, it did take a legal letter to get the person to remove it from their website. Its not that we mind people wanting to share in our creativity, we just don't want them to edit our credits and add their own. Nor do we wish them to steal our bandwidth by taking links from our website and using us as some sort of free streaming host. Our tracker code alerts us to people that do that sort of thing.

There was an EXTREMELY EXTREMELY interesting panel yesterday that I spoke on at Future Salon (monthly meetings in Philadelphia) that was about IP rights and machinima. There was a panelist named Peter who was an expert on the IP rights issue. I believe the event was recorded on camera. I hope I can grab a few clips and show you guys! We discussed all this and more. It sure steams up a good argument.

That sounds very interesting Ariella, I would love to know more.

The way I approached it was to use somewhat the same basis that I am used to in making RL film. I figured that would keep me covered in case things got sticky with digital IP rights down the road.

If you have some links or more info about this event, I would really appreciate them.