Second Life Forums Archive

paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

03-11-2006 16:54

Has anyone played around with matte shots to replace sets or location shooting?

As I understand the technique, there are staionary mattes and travelling mattes.

A stationary matte shot is where the camera doesnt move during a shot and part of the background is replaced in post production.

A travelling matte shot is where you film your actors against a "blue screen" or a "green screen" and then, in post production, the desired background completely replaces the green screen. The camera can move in these shots, as long as it doesn't move past the green screen area. Does common video editing software support this type of compositing?

Both techniques could replace set building or location shoooting, but the techniques would require careful shot planning and camera control.

_____________________

REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."

AJ DaSilva

woz ere

Join date: 15 Jun 2005

Posts: 1,993

03-11-2006 17:27

Haven't done it, but I can tell you now that it'd work fine. Might have trouble synching up camera movements though.

Falcao Vega

Hands off the unguent

Join date: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 66

03-11-2006 19:21

Yep, the technique is called 'keying' and with a good in-world green screen, full bright, you should be able to pull a 'key' with one click.

A lot of apps do this. The main one is Adobe After Effects, though of course there are also 20 others, including Shake, Combustion, the massively expensive Flame/Fire/Inferno boxes, etc. The legacy system was 'Matador,' and it's still spoken of in hushed terms among compositors.

If I read you right, what you're saying about stationary vs. travelling is a distinction without a difference. Google 'rotoscoping' and 'tutorial' and see what I mean. In reality, you use a combination of color-keying and spline / path cutouts to get a good key. If you shoot on greenscreen and you include stuff outside the greenscreen by accident, it's easy as pie to remove that with one animated spline / path. It's shapes like fingers, costumes, hair, water, etc that are hard to key--not big square green backgrounds.

Here's a good link I'm sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluescreen

Generally, roto is the armpit of hard digital labor. It's brutal, awful, menial work, and if you can avoid it or outsource it, by all means do!

paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

stationary matte

03-11-2006 20:21

By stationary matte, I was referring to a "glass shot." That's the technique where a painted glass matte is positioned in front of a locked down camera. Part of the glass is left transparent so the camera can shoot through the glass. The majority of the glass is painted with a "background" scene.

http://budplant.com/product.asp?EID=FROOG&pn=INVH&bhcd2=1142136903

This technique could be used with SL machinima, I think. In post production, a "background" scene, with an alpha channel made transparent to show the actors, could be composited with the live action scene. Or, maybe our HUD could be used to perform a glass shot in SL.

This technique would be a bit different than keying against a green screen.

_____________________

REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."

Falcao Vega

Hands off the unguent

Join date: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 66

03-11-2006 22:55

Oh oh I see. Well, I have to think that unless you're using local lighting for something, you'd still be a hundred times better comping your background scene in After Effects. You get bad antialiasing and jpegginess when you use SL textures outside SL. Our eyes are trained to accept how awful SL really looks! (God knows I've started bending over and accepting those butt-ugly crawly wood grains and pooey-glommed stone walls of even the best castles.)

From what I've seen of Machinima, footage out of SL emerges dark, washed-out and desaturated. When I shoot stills I end up crushing the images and doing various layer sex techniques to bring fleshtones back to some semblance of human tone. So, while this may sound off-topic, it's more that the thought of taking footage straight out of SL for Machinima makes me cringe, and my point--finally getting to it, lol!--is that there are a dozen good reasons for using a basic compositing package to do both bg replacement of the 'glass shot' variety and color correction.

paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

Thanks!

03-12-2006 11:14

Thanks for the input!

_____________________

REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

03-14-2006 21:47

Good discussion, I'm learning more myself... hmmm...

_____________________

BuhBuhCuh Fairchild

Professional BuhBuhCuh

Join date: 9 Oct 2002

Posts: 503

03-15-2006 15:36

I think they would work fine, but I'm more interested in things like forced perspective to create realistic backgrounds for my shots. For me, at least, I have an easier time building in second life than making things look right combined.

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matte shots?

matte shots?
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	03-11-2006 16:54 Has anyone played around with matte shots to replace sets or location shooting? As I understand the technique, there are staionary mattes and travelling mattes. A stationary matte shot is where the camera doesnt move during a shot and part of the background is replaced in post production. A travelling matte shot is where you film your actors against a "blue screen" or a "green screen" and then, in post production, the desired background completely replaces the green screen. The camera can move in these shots, as long as it doesn't move past the green screen area. Does common video editing software support this type of compositing? Both techniques could replace set building or location shoooting, but the techniques would require careful shot planning and camera control. _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
AJ DaSilva woz ere Join date: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1,993	03-11-2006 17:27 Haven't done it, but I can tell you now that it'd work fine. Might have trouble synching up camera movements though.
Falcao Vega Hands off the unguent Join date: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 66	03-11-2006 19:21 Yep, the technique is called 'keying' and with a good in-world green screen, full bright, you should be able to pull a 'key' with one click. A lot of apps do this. The main one is Adobe After Effects, though of course there are also 20 others, including Shake, Combustion, the massively expensive Flame/Fire/Inferno boxes, etc. The legacy system was 'Matador,' and it's still spoken of in hushed terms among compositors. If I read you right, what you're saying about stationary vs. travelling is a distinction without a difference. Google 'rotoscoping' and 'tutorial' and see what I mean. In reality, you use a combination of color-keying and spline / path cutouts to get a good key. If you shoot on greenscreen and you include stuff outside the greenscreen by accident, it's easy as pie to remove that with one animated spline / path. It's shapes like fingers, costumes, hair, water, etc that are hard to key--not big square green backgrounds. Here's a good link I'm sure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluescreen Generally, roto is the armpit of hard digital labor. It's brutal, awful, menial work, and if you can avoid it or outsource it, by all means do!
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	stationary matte 03-11-2006 20:21 By stationary matte, I was referring to a "glass shot." That's the technique where a painted glass matte is positioned in front of a locked down camera. Part of the glass is left transparent so the camera can shoot through the glass. The majority of the glass is painted with a "background" scene. http://budplant.com/product.asp?EID=FROOG&pn=INVH&bhcd2=1142136903 This technique could be used with SL machinima, I think. In post production, a "background" scene, with an alpha channel made transparent to show the actors, could be composited with the live action scene. Or, maybe our HUD could be used to perform a glass shot in SL. This technique would be a bit different than keying against a green screen. _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
Falcao Vega Hands off the unguent Join date: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 66	03-11-2006 22:55 Oh oh I see. Well, I have to think that unless you're using local lighting for something, you'd still be a hundred times better comping your background scene in After Effects. You get bad antialiasing and jpegginess when you use SL textures outside SL. Our eyes are trained to accept how awful SL really looks! (God knows I've started bending over and accepting those butt-ugly crawly wood grains and pooey-glommed stone walls of even the best castles.) From what I've seen of Machinima, footage out of SL emerges dark, washed-out and desaturated. When I shoot stills I end up crushing the images and doing various layer sex techniques to bring fleshtones back to some semblance of human tone. So, while this may sound off-topic, it's more that the thought of taking footage straight out of SL for Machinima makes me cringe, and my point--finally getting to it, lol!--is that there are a dozen good reasons for using a basic compositing package to do both bg replacement of the 'glass shot' variety and color correction.
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	Thanks! 03-12-2006 11:14 Thanks for the input! _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	03-14-2006 21:47 Good discussion, I'm learning more myself... hmmm... _____________________
BuhBuhCuh Fairchild Professional BuhBuhCuh Join date: 9 Oct 2002 Posts: 503	03-15-2006 15:36 I think they would work fine, but I'm more interested in things like forced perspective to create realistic backgrounds for my shots. For me, at least, I have an easier time building in second life than making things look right combined.