Second Life Cup Series

I would like to propose the establishment of a Second Life Cup race series.

The event would occur on an annual basis.

It would comprise of 2 races on Saturday and 2 races on Sunday. One race start at Hollywood, Sanchon, Tompson, and Torch. If more Start lines are operational , we could add some races and have a throw out. No race result would be published after the individual races. All race results would be tabulated and announced at a party Sunday evening after the last race. Trophies would be awarded to individual race winners with a large SL Cup being awarded to the overall winner.

If the event is a success, then in 2007 we could add a second weekend of racing just involving 2 starts between the 2006 winner and the 2007 winner (match race) to see who gets to keep the SL Cup.

The date would be June 10 and 11. This date is almost exactly between the Vuitton Cup Acts 11 and 12.

The event would run under the SLSF banner.

If this is interesting, I would be glad to help in organizing the event.

I like the idea and will help as well. I offer Admiral's Daughter as the location of the party after the 4th race, which could be in Hollywood.

...what a fantastic idea, al!..i'd be more than happy to get cosy island's course up and running regularly enough to serve as a 'throwout' candidate, but another alternative would be two races at each venue (four races each day), one throwout per venue per skipper...

...in fact, each yacht club's internal series could serve wonderfully as a 'feeder' to this annual event, if we wish to keep the SL cup fleet at a manageable size - we could limit SL cup participation to the top ranked 3-6 unique sailors from each active club (exact numbers to be determined a month beforehand), keeping the SL cup fleet in the 8-14 range...it'd be a great incentive for folks' recurring participation within any given yacht club's events, too, something to make ranking amongst a club's top X skippers for any season a laudable goal worth really striving for...

...may i also suggest that we commission a no-copy/no-mod/yes-trans cup to be sculpted and textured by an SL artist of reknown, say starax for example?..i think this would be a great use of SLSF funds...

...and by all means, the SL cup would be a stellar excuse for a massive publicity campaign!..

The problem I have with this approach centers on the word UNIQUE. I don't see SYC and VYC as having seperate sailing communties. Dedicated skippers are likely to be sailing in both clubs, as well as any other clubs that come along. In my view there really isn't going to be a quality list of "unique" skippers to feed a Cup series. My feeling is that SYC and VYC can work coperatively to host a series of seeding races for the Cup. These would be similar in character to the Louis Vitton Cup that determines the challenger in the America's Cup.

I like the idea on 2 races per venue with a throw out. This would have the added benifit of allowing us to schedule races to accomodate Europe and Califonria. (Also, early risers)

I don't particullarly like the idea of a feeder system. Part of the challenge of this series would be to get a good start with a big fleet. Have you ever raced in RL with a starting fleet of 100 boats - what a rush! Your head is on ball bearings trying not to hit anyone and STARBOARD is yelled so many times it sounds like one long word.

I really like the idea for the trophy. We have to bring it up at the next SLSF meeting.

Publicity! As a former marketing exec. that was one of my motives for dreaming this up.

I've called an SLSF meeting this Sunday, 30 April, at 11.00 AM SLT to discuss this year's SL Cup regatta series, culminating June 10th and 11th. We will meet at the Angel's Gate lighthouse in Hollywood to accomodate SYC's Sunday afternoon activities.

Please bring your ideas regarding fleet organisation, seeding, venues, schedule, rules, committee structure, trophies, etcet. This will be an open discussion with the objective of establishing the race committee and general guidelines to be developed therein.

If you cannot attend and would like your position represented, please IM and send me a notecard detailing your thoughts.

Trying to picture a race of this magnitude in SL. It's an ugly picture to say the least. GRIN

Well it certainly was a heated debate at the meeting for the SL Cup.

I think we tried to do too much in too short a time. Moving the discursion to the forums was a good idea.

So here are my thoughts.

First, I still like the dates of June 10 and 11 so i will stay with them. I think adding the feeder feature makes for too ambitious an event. I prefer the KISS principle especially for the first event.

Second, I still like the idea of the event being run under the SLSF banner. I think it is fitting that the SFSL run a premier event annually after all part of its charter is to promote sailing in Second Life.

Third, the race should be open to all Tako owners, regardless of club affiliations. The only role the clubs would play in this event is to make their facilities available for the races. This may require cancelation or rescheduling of club sanctioned events at some or all venues.

Forth, after listening to all the conversation about format, and finding out that the timer can be programmed for multiply starts with a time interval, i propose a match race format. I am supporting this for a number of reasons. Top most is that it will be fun. Then that it is different than we race every week and this is to be a special event so lets make it really special. A lesser reason is that many of us don't have computer that can handle a large fleet race. Those of us who race regularly have all experienced lag and crashes. So by making it match races with a reasonable interval one could hope to take technology out of the factor and make it racer against racer.

Ok, so now you are all asking how to do this. Well here's one way . As suggested in my original post we would have 2 races on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. Now in our normal regattas when we usually do 2-4 races. For this event let's do 2 races. so if we do some simple math that's 1 venue x 2 races x 4 venues = 8 races. The scoring would be 1 point for a win and 0 points for a lose. Any racer may challenge any other racer provided the racer has not already been challenged. Any ties at the end will be broken by total elapsed time for the races. So the winner would be the person with the most points and the lowest total time on the courses. There will be no throw outs.

Now as far as how do we pull this off , I think we need 3 groups ( I am purposefully not calling them committees or anything else) One group is in overall control of the event planning, preparations etc. One group to serve as officials and one group for the party/trophy event. Since there are only 8 races per individual to run I would hope that the experienced Skippers would lend their services to the Officiating group for Protest resolution and on water referees. And as in typical RL sailing club events I would hope to recruit some Partners and /or non competing skippers to plan the party/Trophy event.

I will now run to the refuge of my island to protect myself against the hail of dead fish that will be coming my way. Rest assured that I will return to keep the pot stirred.

Al's other comments aside for the moment, as I stated earlier in this thread, and repeated at the meeting on Sunday, Nber and I would like to host the awards ceremony at the conclusion of the Cup and the party afterwards. Either Nber or I will also assist by helping out in the party/trophy group.

We still offer Hollywood as the venue for the finals. If the final event is not to be held in Hollywood, however, we can still gather at Angel's Gate or the Admiral's Daughter for the awards ceremony and party.

Great Mark, thank you for the offer. I don't see any reason why we should not use Angel's Gate or the Admiral's Daughter. However, the final decsion rests with the organizing group. I was trying to be as non-partisian as I could be. Personally I would love it - easy to get home.

I would really apprecaite your comments on the rest of the outlined plan. Thanks.

Some thoughts on this...

I do like the idea that someone is planning a different kind of race other than the usual fleet racing. The plan for the match racing sounds good, but what will probably limit us is the actual gathering of racers.

Let me step back with what we have planned so far...

Date: June 10-11, a Saturday and Sunday
Time: To be determined
Style: Match racing -- that is, two boats racing against each other

Tentative format: Over two days, we will race four venues. Each person will run through a race twice per venue. Each person will challenge another, providing the person hadn't been challenged yet.

Now some thoughts, questions...

As this is an SLSF event, not tied to any yacht club, there is potential conflict against the yacht club races that run on the weekends. I think this is easier to work around on Saturday, as the VYC races for an hour and a half around 4 pm SLT/7 pm SLT. (The exact time is in flux at the moment.) The SYC, however, has events that cover pretty much the whole afternoon on Sunday. For me, the simple solution is to have early afternoon (on Saturday) or morning (on Sunday) races, but this is a time that is very much outside the norm for most racers. However, it does have a couple benefits:
1. It is Euro-friendly, allowing us to promote the event to those who don't normally get to the fleet races.
2. We're talking a weekend, so time to get on SL is a bit more flexible.
3. The alternative is to ask the yacht clubs to kindly not race those weekends, which I'd like to avoid.

Getting a time fixed should be done as soon as possible, so we can really start on the promotion, particularly if we're going Euro-friendly. I know most Europeans just don't even bother looking for sailing events because they take it as a given that there will be no events they can attend. We have to work at changing this perception.

I know Myrrh really wanted to make the SL Cup a big event for sailing, having it cover a month of preliminaries, culiminating in a final. The reason was that we could really start something special with a yearly event that the SLSF could all rally around, even if we don't get it perfect on the first year. I think we should abandon this idea, though, because we've simply run out of time to plan for an event that covers an entire month of racing. Like Al, I believe we need to keep this simple.

Technical details of the match race:
1. Staggered starts, allowing us to get races moving as fast as possible.
2. How do we determine who gets to challenge first? The person choosing who to challenge seems to be an advantage here. We might set it that if you got to challenge at one venue, you have to be challenged at another venue. Does this make sense?
3. How is officiating going to work? Are we planning to have an official out on the water during a match race. With multiple match races going on at the same time and the real possibility that officials will also be contenders themselves, we're looking at draining the officiator pool real quick, not to mention conflict of interest.
4. Various levels of skill -- As this is open to everyone we can get to attend, how do we account for the different skill levels? A seasoned veteran making a challenge can pick a novice and wipe the floor with him. I don't think anyone honorable would do that, but the possibility is there and it would certainly turn off a novice to even bother.

I think perhaps there should be a signup before the races begin, where a person has to sign up for a particular skill level and preferably race against those in the same class. But then I'm not sure how this should affect the points people get and what happens when it comes time to determine a winner... I would really like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Venues: The four venues most mentioned are FairChang, Hollywood, Sanchon, and Tompson. Mark has already kindly offered Hollywood up for our use, and I believe Pixeleen will do the same for Sanchon, providing we don't interfere with VYC races. (But all the same, we should ask her.) However, I do like the idea that we can use this opportunity to create an all new venue.

Committees:
1. I think the organizing committee is starting to form on its own -- basically anyone who wants to set this up is more than welcome. This is Al's idea, however, so I'm really taking his lead on format here.
2. The race committee seems to be twofold, those who actually are hosting the event and those needed to officiate it. A host is vital for this event, I think, as we're focusing on staggered racing. Someone needs to bring out the whip and get boats ready on the line and keep things moving. As for officials, as I mentioned earlier, even with a pool of officials, there's potential that we simply run out of ones available to be out on the water to both officiate and race. I think for the race committee, it would really help us if we can get a host and at least one official who is not participating in the races itself.
3. Trophy committee/Party committee -- bah, I don't care, someone else deal with it.

Also, we're having an event that covers two days. I'm not sure if participants can really commit to those two days, and if they miss one day, well, they might as well miss them both because the point system only works if they were there the whole time. Again, a signup sheet might help us determine if this event will even work, as then we can determine who is going to be able to do this over two days. This will require promotion to be heavy beforehand, so we can encourage people to sign up and be ready for this.

Now, if we really wanted to keep it simple, we could do match racing on one day, at one venue, and just run race after race after race after race. Something to consider.

I think the operative "word" for the 2006 SL Cup should be KISS (keep it simple, stupid). We have had a lot of interesting ideas for a Cup series, ideas that could all be incorporated in the 2007 Cup if we start early enough and debated long enough in 2007.

Having envisioned and organized a number of what has become annual events in RL (including an inaugural regatta for a new class of sailboat sanctioned by the American Model Yacht Association) I have some experience in situations such as this.

If the SL Cup is to see a 2007 version, the 2006 version has to run reasonable well and without a lot of problems or rancor. Thus the suggestion that our mantra should be KISS.

I recommend we sacrifice those visions of "all match racing", "new venues", and "racing at venues that are not used regularly" on the KISS altar.

I recommend that the 2006 SL Race Committee hold two seeding regattas. One at Hollywood and one at Sanchon. The top four boats in the first seeding regatta qualify for the semi-finals of the Cup. Those boats can also race in the second seeding (or not) but only the top four non-seeded boats qualify for the semi's in the second regatta.

The semi-finals are match races. A matrix is created and half the races are run in Hollywood and half are run in Sanchon. The semi's are run on Saturday June 10 starting at 9AM and continue until all matches are completed. This would be using a staggered start line as previously discussed with starts every 2 or 3 minutes.

The finals are held on Sunday with the top two boats competing for 1st, and boats three and four from saturday competing for 3rd. I will be arrogant enough to suggest that the finals be held in Hollywood which is well suited for a nice sized spectator crowd. And, as previously discussed, the awards and after party can be held at Hollywood as well.

In Hollywood we are experimenting with using RAW files to quickly change the character of the sims. We literally can go from lots of islands in a sim to totally open sea in a matter of 45 seconds per sim. So the idea of a "new venue" can be had in a nicely controlled sailing friendly enviroment. The race committee could work with the host to create layouts, wind, and courses to their liking.

For the 2007 Cup I recommend that to qualify for the Cup you must win a regularly scheduled regatta in the 2006-2007 season (June 15 to ??). Thus every regatta is linked to the 2007 SL Cup and a qualified field of skippers is preselected for an all match race series over a number of days or even weeks.

Being a firm believer in the KISS principle and since I want any race to occur in 2006 that is called the SL Cup rather discuss it to death. I whole heartily support Mark's plan.

I think it is an excellent compromise that includes both fleet racing and match racing.

Would the seeding regattas be the regularly scheduled events or separate events? I would like to suggest separate events on the weekend before. The regattas would be run at Hollywood and Sanchon under the SLSF banner. They would be run in the morning , say 10:00 AM SLT, to avoid any conflict with club sponsored events at the venue and make the race accessible to the greatest number of skippers.

If I understand the plan, on Saturday's prelims there would be 8 boats racing. Each boats racing against each other boat for a total of 56 races. Let's see each race takes about 15 minutes. A 15 minute break between races. A 3 minute staggered start. Each round will take about 45 minutes to complete. (48 minutes to be exact). So we would have about a total of 8 hours of racing, over 2 venues that would be 4 hours each May I suggest allowing one throw out.

I like the idea for 2007. The only thing I would like to suggest that a win in a regular regatta gives you a point in the SL cup standings. Then the top 8 skippers will race for the Cup in 2007.

Glad you like the idea Al.

15 minutes per race? I think most of our races are in the 7 to 8 minute range in Hollywood when we crank the wind up to 10m/s. Recently we have been racing with 7m/s average wind speed so the times are slower of course.

I think the race committee can come up with a course and wind speed that would make the average race 7-10 minutes at the most.

This is Al's event, and he can do whatever he wants. Still, I'm not sure you are gaining any legitimacy by holding a few race in Sanchon, ignoring all the other venues, and carefully avoiding development of new sailing venues. Since you are treating all the other venues second rate sites, maybe keep things really simple and hold everything in Hollywood? My sense is that is what you want anyway, so why not indulge yourselves?


I am still wondering what is wrong with my suggestion from this afternoon's meeting that someone flip a prim (flip a coin inworld) to pick the location for the finals. That seems fair to me. I'm especially bothered by this since some people found it necessay to leave the meeting suddenly when this suggestion was raised rather than explain why this is an unworkable suggestion.

Point to point teleport would seem to solve any issues of having a party somewhere afterwards. Personally, I'd suggest partying in the noobie welcome area since that could probably recruit some new sailors, but these sorts of ideas do not seem to mesh well with the event organizers' goals. I'll stop bothering you with them.




A few things trouble me about this. Implying that there is something wrong with other sailing venues runs counter to most people's experience and hurts your credibility. Then there is the unfortunate issue of some insiders altering the terrain in a temporary way so that there is not fair and equal access to the venue for practice. These temporary alterations to Hollywood do nothing to create enduring sailing venues that eveyone in SLSF can enjoy whenever they feel like it. I've been advocating that SLSF work to open more water up and have more sites for sailing for a long time. Since this idea has been discarded in the SLSF Cup discussions, I find my interest in the SLSF Cup is waning a bit.

In any case, this is clearly not my event to organize. Have fun with it.

As I mentioned at the meeting, the VYC-SYC challenge I issued last week still stands, if SYC someday wants to entertain the possibility of working with another club as equals. This woud be much more in the spirit of the America's Cup, which is something I would love to see in SL. I would structure this with each club stating what its selection process would be. People keep pointing out to me that we are one community, so I'd expect each club to allow ANYONE to sail in their selection races, (and most serious sails would sail in BOTH club's selection series to improve their chances of getting to the finals and practice). Clubs would then offer the top 3 sailors from each club's selection process the opportunity to represent that club, and the sailors could decide if they wanted to represent or not. We'd then run match race between the representatives from each club to determine the winning club. In the event one or more of the representatives of a club were not present at the finals, one of the other representatives would take their place. Finally, we would hold the finals at a neutral site (probably the big area of void sims connecting the mainland to the bulk-purchase sims (near picasso sim) so that this would be seen as a scrupulously fair and neutral venue. I'd use this event to agitate that the Lindens allow for a permanent set of bouys in this area, and a permanent SLSF starting line as well. Oh yeah, and I'd sail my heart out to get to represent SYC against VYC. What a great heart warming story that would be... and no matter what happened I'd be happy

So... the challenge still stands Mark. Whenever you feel up to it, let me know.

Today's followup meeting brought the balance of public suggestions to the table and tentatively selected a Race Committee, pending nominee acceptance. Rest assured that the committee composition will be impartial and balanced, and that everyone's concerns will be given fair consideration.

We will post the Race Committee later this week, to be followed shortly thereafter by the regatta format.

Just a suggestion...

Why not invert the paradigm for venue selection?

Rather than have the hosts select the venue... why not let the racers select the venue? Each heat's venue could be chosen by those participating in the heat.

Or have the spectators select the venue.

Or a combination... each racer gets one vote, and the the polled spectators can act as a tiebreaker if they racers don't agree.

Just some thoughts

--Faykin

Just want to let everyone know that the SL Cup has risen from the dead. The date has been pushed out. The final plans are being ironed out. Stay tuned for further updates.

This is going to be one heck of an event.