SLSF Meeting Discussion

I won't be at the SLSF Meeting this Saturday due to other committments, and I'm sure many others might be in a similar situation. That's not to say I don't have an interest in the proposed topics of discussion, so I thought I'd start a thread where people can voice their opinion on various SLSF matters as they would have done at the meeting.

1. SLSF Website -- I gave my vote to SLSailing.org because it seems to fit with the pattern of other SL related websites. Like SLUniverse or SLHerald or whatever that has SL in front of it. I went with this over SLSF.info because for a new person looking for things sailing-related in SL, they're not going to know what SLSF means. Also, I suspect they'd try to go to .com or .net before even remembering .info, in which case they'll learn much there is to know about Sri Lankan squash. Also, whatever website we create, I prefer simple and functional. As in not much more than a forum. Other than that, my knowledge of website creation is at a minimum, so that's all I really could add to that discussion.

2. SLSF Cup Committee Vacancies -- As mentioned in the SLSF Cup thread, I hearby nominate Svar Beckersted and Kanker Greenacre to fill the vacant spots in the committee. I am aware that the second nomination is complete BS, but the thought of it makes my evil heart laugh. However, I am pretty serious about Svar's nomination, as he's been a tremendous help in running the line for the past couple acts and has good experience in running events at Hollywood. He's been a cool head, a fair bloke.

3. Club Fleet Record Interoperability -- If clubs want their fleet records to be standardized, I think that's more up to them, not the SLSF.

4. Fall Boat Show -- Haha. Maybe.

5. SLSF Accounting and stuff -- I don't really care, unless we're opening up the discussion on using SLSF funds for advertising. I've always been against advertising in various SL-related publications. I have other ideas for promotion, but now I'm late for work so I'll have to talk about such things whenever I get back to the computer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Saturdays meeting is NOT the the time to discuss the SL Cup.

There is too much turmoil with in the Cup series now that must be resolved. Then a formal proposal can be made to the SLSF. For example, nominations should be open to the entire membership and then voted on by the SLSF. One of the complaints leveled at the current committee is that to much is done "behind closed doors". Rushing to fill the vacancy will only serve to add to this.

There is a meeting called for on Sunday to hopefully resolve many of the SL Cup issues and move it ahead. That is the proper way to do it.

Please let's not rush this process. With 5 Acts in the books and this break, it is the perfect time to review and improve the series.

Okay, but I hope you plan on having a full committee in place before you start making decisions about the SLSF Cup at your meeting the day after Saturday's meeting.

But back to tomorrow's meeting -- I hope those who can't make it feel free to post to this thread or send notecards to other SLSF members about any ideas they have about sailing in Second Life. From my experience with the one SLSF meeting I ever attended many moons ago (which might have been the only meeting ever), they're loose, casual affairs. All are welcome. Bring ideas, discuss ideas, if you're lucky, someone volunteers to impliment ideas...

Where was I on that list of things that I'd talk about... website, check... nominations, check... oh right!

Accounting -- The SLSF has funds, but no one takes advantage of it. There was talk at the last meeting of advertising, but nothing came of that. I had an idea that would be keen -- lots of newbies are looking for that quick linden. With stipends now gone, it's possible to use some SLSF funds for newbie races. I'm not talking big cash payouts for the winners either. I'm thinking... like maybe 25 to 50 lindens. Such a small amount that seems like so little you don't see why someone would bother creating an alt to cheat the system. But 25 lindens is nice to have if you have absolutely no other money.

Promotion -- With the forums disappearing and my stance against advertising, I thought about how I would bother with promoting sailing. Mostly I go for word of mouth, but I was hanging at The Shelter the other day and wondered about pairing a sailing event with such a newbie-friendly hangout, particularly with my idea of small cash prizes to the winners.

SLSF Officers -- Yeah, I wouldn't mind kicking a few out.

Unedited Chat Log
Posted by Request
You: = Myrrh Massiel

----------------------------------------------------
FOREWORD
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Pixeleen Mistral: things are rezing very slowly...
You: PIXIE!!! ...hiya!!.
Pixeleen Mistral: hi
Pixeleen Mistral: I'm back from vacation
You: ...how was it?..
Pixeleen Mistral: fun
Pixeleen Mistral: we were in new hampshire
You: ...oh *cool*!..
Myrrh Massiel is considering moving to New Hampshire in about three years.
Pixeleen Mistral: there are a lot of trees
Myrrh Massiel nods.
You: ...part of it depends on whether or not pacifien is up to the move...
Oliphant Ming is online
Elisia Mayfair: Hello.
Espresso Saarinen: hi al
You: ...hiya folks!..
Al Kaiser: ho there
Pixeleen Mistral: hi!
Espresso Saarinen: hy myrrh
Elisia Mayfair: Hrm, if we're sitting in that small space, my wings will be in the way. Bah.
Elisia Mayfair chuckles.
Al Kaiser: rought nite Expresso lol
Pixeleen Mistral: you could hover...
You: ...nah; there's plenty of room behind everyone's back... WINK
Elisia Mayfair: That's true. I usually only take them off to sail. I always need to feel the wind one way or another.
Al Kaiser: Hi Svar
Pixeleen Mistral: hi Oli!
Elisia Mayfair: Hi Svar, hi Oliphant.
You: ...hiya oli!..
You: ...svar, all!..
Svar Beckersted: hi Elisia
Oliphant Ming: Hi Elisia, Myrrh...
Elisia Mayfair: I'm not used to seeing you with hair, Svar.
Svar Beckersted: hi again Myrrh
Svar Beckersted: hi Al
Espresso Saarinen: here, lehua
Al Kaiser: hiya Oli
Svar Beckersted: hi Pixileen
Elisia Mayfair: Thank you, Pixleen.
Pixeleen Mistral: yw
Svar Beckersted: lol
Pixeleen Mistral: I'm always recruiting...
Svar Beckersted: aloha Lehua
Al Kaiser: Hi Tasha
An object named SLSF Clubboard owned by Myrrh Massiel gave you Sailing Locations.
Al Kaiser: Myrrh can we trun this stoll around?
Lehua Lamington: aloha good afternoon everyone
Myrrh Massiel laughs. yep!
Espresso Saarinen: aloha lehua
Svar Beckersted: ty
Al Kaiser: weeee
Elisia Mayfair: Aloha Lehua.
Lehua Lamington: lol Svar
Svar Beckersted: hi Espresso
You: ...give me just a moment to finish up - i'll be right back...
Svar Beckersted: k
Lehua Lamington: he got a free ride. pout.
Svar Beckersted: hey Oli
Svar Beckersted: it was short Lehua
Oliphant Ming: hi svar
Lehua Lamington: lol. how are you today, Svar?
Lehua Lamington: good her too thanks
Svar Beckersted: good ,you
Lehua Lamington: Al gonna need a ride too
Lehua Lamington: seh will turn those around in a few
Pixeleen Mistral: Hi Theo
Svar Beckersted: hi Theodore
Theodore Polonsky: Howdy all
Alan Kiesler: Afternoon all. Sorry, delivery came in.
Theodore Polonsky: Today is a great day
Theodore Polonsky: There is football on TV
Theodore Polonsky: It's HS football, but still
Elisia Mayfair: lol
Lehua Lamington: lol .. hi Theo
Lehua Lamington: hi Carmelita
Elisia Mayfair: Ack!
Espresso Saarinen: hi carm!
Espresso Saarinen: pull up a stool
Al Kaiser: hi Carm
Carmelita Carillon: *sigh* hello
SLSF Cubboard: Unable to give inventory: No item named 'Vagabond's Yacht Club'
You: ...so; i'll get to these clubboards in a bit - but they're rough prototypes, so i beg your patience if they're still pretty un-polished and glitchy...
Espresso Saarinen: hiding behind a wall of documentation, myrrh? SMILE
Myrrh Massiel laughs. Nah....
Pixeleen Mistral: they are missing the starting line in Torch, I think
You: ...here; i'll pass out a rough agenda, but it's basically what i posted on the announcement...
Theodore Polonsky accepted your inventory offer.
Alan Kiesler accepted your inventory offer.
Oliphant Ming accepted your inventory offer.
Pixeleen Mistral accepted your inventory offer.
Lehua Lamington accepted your inventory offer.
Espresso Saarinen accepted your inventory offer.
Al Kaiser accepted your inventory offer.
Espresso Saarinen: ?
Svar Beckersted accepted your inventory offer.
Carmelita Carillon accepted your inventory offer.
Al Kaiser: hi Cory
Carmelita Carillon: thank you
You: ...hiya cory!..
Svar Beckersted: hi Carmelita and Cory
Cory Copeland: hi myrrh
Cory Copeland: SMILE
You: ...grab a seat, let me spin you around if required...
Cory Copeland: hey svar
Carmelita Carillon: hello
You: ...i threw all this together very hastily this morning... WINK
Cory Copeland accepted your inventory offer.
You: ...try it now, cory...
Myrrh Massiel grins.
Mat Warf is online
Elisia Mayfair accepted your inventory offer.
Cory Copeland: raise
Cory Copeland: oops
Cory Copeland: lol

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END FOREWORD
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----------------------------------------------------
SLSF MEETING AGENDA
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SLSF Officer positions
SLSF Accounts, Expenses, and Fundraising
SLSF Website
SLSF Clubboards
SLSF Cup Committee vacancies
Club fleet record interoperability
Fall boat show
...and any other ideas?
----------------------------------------------------
AS DISTRIBUTED BY MYRRH MASSIEL
----------------------------------------------------

Please note that SL forums don't allow posts greater than 30,000 characters, nor emoticons to be used beyond a certain threshold. I've had to break up this transcript into four parts and strip out emoticons as noted.

Unedited Chat Log
Posted by Request
You: = Myrrh Massiel

----------------------------------------------------
PART ONE
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You: ...okay, i think we can get started...
Chase Speculaas is online
Al Kaiser raises hand
You: ...i'd hoped kanker and mark and nber could be here, but they're hosting a golf tournament right now...
You: ...what's up al?..
Al Kaiser: will this be recorded
You: ...anybody who wants to is welcomed to, if you all consent; i'll post the chat log afterward, provided i don't crash... WINK
Theodore Polonsky: concent
Theodore Polonsky: s/c/s/
Myrrh Massiel hehs.
Espresso Saarinen: consent
Al Kaiser: ithink it should be
Alan Kiesler: Sure
Carmelita Carillon: consent
Oliphant Ming: fine with me
Cory Copeland: sounds good to me
Pixeleen Mistral: ok
Al Kaiser: consent
Elisia Mayfair: Consent.
Svar Beckersted: consent
You: ...well, let's start from the top, SLSF officer positions...
Lil Carducci is offline
You: ...we have a lot of new group tools at our disposal now, and much more flexibility with how we assign positions and responsibilites...
You: ...kanker has suggested, and i agree, that we should cull the dead weight within the SLSF officer slots...
Al Kaiser: i second that idea
Pixeleen Mistral: can you get specific about what the dead weight is?
You: ...we have a couple of officers who aren't active in the community at all...
Lil Carducci is online
Espresso Saarinen: dead weight == inactive people or useless slots?
You: ...kanker's asked them to leave previously, and never gotten a response...
Pixeleen Mistral: name some names...
You: ...well, now we can boot them out...
You: rmike javelin
You: jamie marlin
You: i think that's it?
Theodore Polonsky nods
Pixeleen Mistral: fine with me
Theodore Polonsky: I move that we authorize Kanker to remove them both
You: ...hiya mat, grab a seat!..
Mat Warf waves
Al Kaiser: hi Mat
Mat Warf accepted your inventory offer.
You: ...i'm suffering pretty bad pulse lag right now, so forgive me if my attentiveness seems sporadic...
You: ...bascially, as the SLSF founder, kanker has the authority to do whatever he pleases, so that gives us a good starting point...
You: ...i think he's the founder - never checked...
Al Kaiser: he is
Espresso Saarinen: i don;t think we build community by asserting hierarchic prerogative
Svar Beckersted: yes
Theodore Polonsky: I don't know what that means
You: ...well, i agree that the SLSF is an egalitarian community...
Espresso Saarinen: s/is/might become/
Theodore Polonsky: Kanker has the technical ability to remove them now, which he didn't before
You: ...but there are a few loose roles, nonetheless, and most significantly it doesn't make sense to have officers which aren't active, espeically given the power they wield on the community's behalf...
Espresso Saarinen: that is engineering, not society, theodore
Espresso Saarinen: agree myrrh
Svar Beckersted: Kanker should be the owner and you can have more that 1 owner
Theodore Polonsky: I was just pointing out that had changed
Myrrh Massiel nods.
You: ...okay, i'll tell kanker that community consensus supports him moving ahead with that...
Myrrh Massiel waits for Al.
Al Kaiser: point of order Myrrh - we have a proposal on the floor either we second it or withdraw it
Theodore Polonsky hands Pix his copy of Robert's Rules
Theodore Polonsky: Oh, I figured we were running loose, Al SMILE
Espresso Saarinen: second, actyually third
You: well, we've never had formal rules of order in the SLSF, al
You: we're very ad-hoc by precedent WINK
Al Kaiser: well maybe it's ime to think about that
Theodore Polonsky: That's not on the agenda
Theodore Polonsky: SMILE
Al Kaiser: we are ahugh diversiefd group now
Al Kaiser: and all interests need to be serverd
You: well, in a sense it is - we're here to talk about officer positions, and if someong thinks they should be formalised roles and rules of interaction, we should address that
You: i have one idea along those lines
Latifia Drillon is offline
Pixeleen Mistral: I don't hear a second for al's proposal yet...
Espresso Saarinen: what counts is results. it would be nice if we could achieve them without a lot of formality
Theodore Polonsky: It was my proposal, and Espresso seconded
Theodore Polonsky: I think
Theodore Polonsky: Hi Static
You: ...okay, let's not be sticklers on points of order, since we haven't formally adopted any yet... WINK
You: ...static, hiya!..
Static Sprocket: No racing today?
Static Sprocket accepted your inventory offer.
Pixeleen Mistral: talking instead of racing
Theodore Polonsky: Cup's on hold, Static...you need to read some forums
You: ...we're discussing whether the SLSF should consider formalising any officer roles and such, static...
Static Sprocket: no thanks (on reading forums)
Elisia Mayfair: Can I offer just a sort of outside opinion on this?
Theodore Polonsky: OK, so, I withdraw my motion? If I need to. I agree that no one seems to object to Kanker moving forward anyway.
You: always, elisia!
Latifia Drillon is online
Al Kaiser: /rasies hand
Espresso Saarinen: yes, al?
Elisia Mayfair: Well, seems from what I'm reading on the forums, things are sort of hrm what's the word I'm looking for here, tense and stratified at the moment? Could it be possible
Elisia Mayfair: That adding formal roles into the mix at this juncture of time would only fuel that?
Al Kaiser: right now i am speaking for 3 clubs in SL
Al Kaiser: SYC<MBYC and NYC
Theodore Polonsky: Elisia, I don't think it's nearly as bad as the forums suggest
Elisia Mayfair: Perhaps it would be more prudent to let things cool off before talking about formally assigned roles?
Elisia Mayfair: Ah, okay, as I said was sort of an outside opinion, and most based on what I've been catching up on forums wise SMILE
Al Kaiser: we have drafted a proposal that was first to do with the cup but now has bearings on the officiers of the SLSF
Al Kaiser: it is our feeling that ALL clubs be equally represented in any and all officails posts
Mat Warf: hi nico
Nico Culdesac: hi
Espresso Saarinen: seconded by mowry
You: well, that kind of dovetails into an idea i'd had
Al Kaiser gave you Committee proposal.
You: i think it would make sense for SLSF officership to be composed of one representative from each active sailing club
Al Kaiser: i am now handing out our offical request
Pixeleen Mistral: define "active3"
Myrrh Massiel hehs. Yep, same idea...
Cory Copeland: i agree myrrh
Espresso Saarinen: al has a written proposal, notarized by three clubs
Lehua Lamington: yes.
Elisia Mayfair: That makes good sense in terms of equal represenation.
Pixeleen Mistral: you need to define what makes an "active" club...
You: well, we wrestled with that very definition when we drafted the rules for the SLSF cup - i think it's dangerous to tie in community participation to 'racing' per se, though
Al Kaiser: i will in a sec Pix
Espresso Saarinen: i am sure myrrh can do that in a 30 page document SMILE
Al Kaiser: has everyone gotten it?
Theodore Polonsky: I'm a little wary of each cllub picking their own rep, too...it takes SLSF members who are not affiliated witha club out of the decision making proces
Chase Speculaas is offline
Static Sprocket: surely she could do it in 29 pages
Svar Beckersted: yes
Lehua Lamington: yes. have. ty
Espresso Saarinen: that is the club's business and decision
Elisia Mayfair: ty Al.
Cory Copeland: ty al
Carmelita Carillon: yes, ty
Simon Walsh is offline
Simon Walsh is online
Theodore Polonsky: So, I would suggest we also have one or two "at large" positions elected by the SLSF membership
You: i know one of the fundamental tenets, at least in action if not in constitution, of the SLSF has been to be inclusive and supportive on *all* sailors and sailing enthusiasm within SL, no club required
Cory Copeland: i agree theo
Espresso Saarinen: that makes some sense, theo/myrrh
Al Kaiser: Sailing is not only about racing- it is a community - every club has it's own personlity and evry club should be represented
Theodore Polonsky: And this sounds to me like a "Board of Directors"
Al Kaiser: that is what it should be
Espresso Saarinen: slsf has the hierarchy already. the point is it should be representative and a level playing field. same for cup
Theodore Polonsky: The keys would be defining "Affilliated Club" and how many At large seats
Oliphant Ming: SLSF was never to have anythong to do with overseeing clubs...
Oliphant Ming: from the first
You: ...should we have a set number of at-large slots, or a set proportion?..
Carmelita Carillon: a board that equally represents the ppl it serves
Elisia Mayfair: Proportion I think.
Al Kaiser: then Oli what is the charter of the SLSF
Al Kaiser: is it not to promote Sailing in SL
Cory Copeland: 50% clubs, 50% at large
Elisia Mayfair: Because that allows growth room if more clubs spring up and such and the at large membership grows as well
Theodore Polonsky: Another thing to consider, if we go the per-club route...if we get a lot of clubs, this won't work. The board will be too large
Cory Copeland: lets promote sailing not the clubs
Oliphant Ming: the charter was simply to promote sailing
Theodore Polonsky: A BoD larger than 10 or 11 people will be unwieldy
Oliphant Ming: aye
Myrrh Massiel nods. Oli's spot-on, there.
Oliphant Ming: we promote sailing
Pixeleen Mistral: nice fireworks
Al Kaiser: well we are not promoting sailing with all the bickering back and forth
Static Sprocket: heh, guess we officially got enough green dots in a single sim to attract attention
Al Kaiser: we need strong leadership that will serve the interest of the community
You: i don't think the SLSF itself has been a haven for any bickering at all, al
Espresso Saarinen: kids not back in school yet
Elisia Mayfair: Darn griefers.
Al Kaiser: lol@Static
Theodore Polonsky: Myrrh, does SLSF have a written constitution? IE: If we want to change the makeup of the officers/create a board, do we have a procedure to do that, or do we have to invent that, too?
Oliphant Ming: clubs were always to be independent of slsf
Espresso Saarinen: proposal: one per club on slsf and two at large. and let's not bicker about whether we bicker or not.
You: the SLSF to-date has been a loose agglomeration of interested parties supporting each other, nothing more and nothing less
Cory Copeland: lol espresso
Espresso Saarinen: oh, there are no officers in a loose agglomeratoon?
Lehua Lamington: lol
Espresso Saarinen: then why this discussion?
Static Sprocket: If I may, I know I was late arriving, I thought the SLSF was about promoting sailing... And not about clubs, racing, or similiar activities... Just promotion of sailing... a network of like minded individuals...
Oliphant Ming: good queation,
Oliphant Ming: Im wondering myself
You: because we have a legacy of extant officers, and new tools we can leverage to support our comminity's growth through designating various group roles, espresso
Al Kaiser: well there must be a diffence of opinion coz 3 clubs think diffenently
Theodore Polonsky: This is an opportunity for change created by a technical change
Espresso Saarinen: then let's not pretend otherwise and get on with deciding consistency of officers
Al Kaiser: and Myrrh brough up the subject of officiers for the SLSF
You: well, we all concur on letting kanker cull the dead weight
Al Kaiser: i agree Expresso
Lehua Lamington: yes.
Oliphant Ming: yep
Carmelita Carillon: urd
Cory Copeland: yup
Pacifien Massiel is online
Carmelita Carillon: yes
Al Kaiser: yes
Espresso Saarinen: i am not against the officer thing. i do not like pretending one thing while being another
Theodore Polonsky: Hi Pac
Espresso Saarinen: yes
Mat Warf: hi pac!
Cory Copeland: hey pacifien
Svar Beckersted: yes
Lehua Lamington: hi pac
Elisia Mayfair: Hi Pacifien.
Pacifien Massiel: Loading.
Pacifien Massiel accepted your inventory offer.
Al Kaiser: hi Paci
Oliphant Ming: what are ypou pretending espresso?
Nathan Stradale accepted your inventory offer.
mimi Anna accepted your inventory offer.
Theodore Polonsky: Al, I have a question about your proposal.
Espresso Saarinen: that i unserstand how a loose agglomeration can have officers
Al Kaiser: fire
You: we've had officers designated in an ad-hoc capacity historically, espresso, nothing formal about it
Oliphant Ming: thats ritght
Theodore Polonsky: Do the three clubs who signed off on this think that is the long-term solution, even if we had 20 active clubs? Or do you think this is likely a short-term solution for the 6-8 clubs we have now?
Al Kaiser: long term
Sudane Erato is online
Espresso Saarinen: we reserve the right to learn and adjust
Svar Beckersted: hi kanker
Al Kaiser: Hiya Kanker
Espresso Saarinen: hi kanker
Cory Copeland: hey kanker
Lehua Lamington: hi kanker
Theodore Polonsky: Oh, of course. Organizations have to adapt
Kanker Greenacre: hi guys
You: ...well, here's the deal: we can have an officer from each club be represented in the SLSF, but that doesn't neccessarily mean they need to be party to any 'active board of directors' which could be designated independently...
Cory Copeland: maybe the all the reps... club and otherwise should elect a board of directors
Static Sprocket: Personally, I think the SLSF should have it's own BoD, that aren't linked to clubs -- then have advisery members, which are made up of clubs
Theodore Polonsky: Interesting, Cory
You: that's a good idea, static - roles can be dual-held, but not inherently part of the equation
Theodore Polonsky: A Club board, composed of all the club reps, that acts as a nominating committee for the BoD
Cory Copeland accepted your inventory offer.
Carmelita Carillon accepted your inventory offer.
Inoue Okina: Yes, i totally agree
Kanker Greenacre accepted your inventory offer.
Elisia Mayfair: Well. . .
You: ...oh, that's a good idea!..
Theodore Polonsky: SLS membership still votes, but votes yay or nay on a panel of directors selected by the club comm
Inoue Okina accepted your inventory offer.
Elisia Mayfair: Dovetailing into the proposal that's here on my desktop for Al, wouldn't it make sense to just empower the decision making committe in that same capacity? Merge those two ideas?
Static Sprocket: The role of the SLSF, isn't tied directly to clubs, thus it's leadership shouldn't be tied to clubs --- certainly, the clubs will make up a representation of a great many sailers, and should be able to voice an opinion...
Oliphant Ming: what decisions?
Elisia Mayfair: One rep from each club to fill both purposes?
Theodore Polonsky: My concern is that the Club Comm may grow to be many people, and be unwieldy for day to day operations
You: ...well, no, because we don't want to tie things strictly into 'club' management...
Al Kaiser: if we get to 20 clubs then maybe we have to review it again
Al Kaiser: that is how i fell right now
Theodore Polonsky: and also ties SLSF ops to Clubs too tightly
Espresso Saarinen: fix that problem if it occurrs
Espresso Saarinen: right now, we have a problem keeping viable clubs
Elisia Mayfair: Right, I don't think I'm expressing myself correctly, alas.
Myrrh Massiel agrees.
Pacifien Massiel: I vote that the SLSF remain separate from club involvement, including any officers it should have.
Theodore Polonsky: I sense there is strong objection to having clubs directly select SLSF officers
Pacifien Massiel: I mean, the officers can be part of clubs, but that's not why officers should be picked for the SLSF.
Espresso Saarinen: uh, please sense that three clubs and 20 epople signed that note, theo
Theodore Polonsky: Espresso, I also hear strong objections
Al Kaiser: yes - this is a very big issue
Espresso Saarinen: i do too. so postpone
Pixeleen Mistral: discuss it in the forums?
Pacifien Massiel: What note?
Brookston Holiday is online
Espresso Saarinen: oh goodie, pix. i can't wait
Svar Beckersted: al give paci the note
You: ...why not have an advisory board of officers represented one-per-club, and keep SLSF management officer positions independently selected?..i like theo's suggestiong that the former nominates the latter, but it's always up to SLSF at-large ratification..
Al Kaiser: ok hold on
Al Kaiser: Paci jump up or something so i can find u
Kix Biniak: ummmm
Kix Biniak: hi
Espresso Saarinen: whether we like it or not, sailing in sl does seem to be oriented around clubs
Static Sprocket: Al, I gave her a copy
Theodore Polonsky: Kanker, an important question that hasn't been asked yet...if the SLSF membership decides it wants more formality, boards, directors, rules, etc....are you willing to allow that? It is your group, from a technical perspective and from a historical one
Myrrh Massiel nods.
Loki Clifton is online
Oliphant Ming: actually, espresso, there are a lot of sailors hnot in clubs...
Espresso Saarinen: or in multiple clubs
Kanker Greenacre: yes, i will go with waht the majority wants
Theodore Polonsky: OK
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, I meet SLSF members all the time who don't tie themselves to any clubs.
Al Kaiser: the at large positions will represnt them
Kix Biniak accepted your inventory offer.
Kanker Greenacre: it's my group only by virtue of me being the first sailor
Espresso Saarinen: but the sailing seems to be organized by clubs, certainly races, cup, rfl, ... is based in clubs
Theodore Polonsky: And the father of SL sailing in general
Cory Copeland: races, lessons and cruising all seem to be organized by the clubs
Theodore Polonsky: May I direct a question to the people who had a strong negative reaction to the proposal submitted by Al?
You: ...there's a large contingent of recreatinal sailors out there who have nothing to do with racing nor clubs, and i think we all agree it would be foolish to disclude them by design...
Pacifien Massiel: Ask away, Theo.
Theodore Polonsky: Does the proposal to have a club committee acts as advisory board and nominating committee for BoD address some/all of your concerns, or is it equally unpalatable to you?
You: it addresses my concerns.
Cory Copeland: works for me theo
Al Kaiser: we are not - that is the traditional reason the "at large" posts are created
Oliphant Ming: it is equally unpalatable to me
Theodore Polonsky: it was your idea, Cory TONGUE
Pacifien Massiel: Equally unpalatable.
Theodore Polonsky: OK.
Espresso Saarinen: while i could live with it personally, it is too much of a change from the group proposal to agree without consultation with group
Cory Copeland: lol
Oliphant Ming: SLSF was never to concvern itself with club management
You: it sounds like we'll need to post and SLSF constitution discussion for further discourse in the forums, then...
Al Kaiser: nor are we saying it should be
You: and=an
Theodore Polonsky nods
Static Sprocket: If I may ask, other then myself, have any of you actually been on a Board of Directors of a Real Life non-profit, or other volunteer organization?
Pacifien Massiel: I believe the SLSF is outside of any club management or influence.
Lehua Lamington: then how did it get to create a cup racing committee
Espresso Saarinen: cool oli, then no officers and no flags, and no association. otherwise such words are hot air
Al Kaiser: but the SLSF should be listening to a bigger voice of sailing in SL
Myrrh Massiel has, yes. I've served on several RL boards of directors.
Espresso Saarinen: do not disagree al
Theodore Polonsky: Yes, I've worked for 10 years on the executive committee for a 1000 person annual conference
Pacifien Massiel: It's my understanding that you can stamp "official" on anything and people will think you're right if no one else objects.
Espresso Saarinen: we have seen that in slsf sailing
Carmelita Carillon: I as well
Pacifien Massiel: In any case, the trophy everyone is racing for was given to the SLSF.
Theodore Polonsky: Lehua, the SLSF has Cup responsibility due to the wording of the Deed Of Gift of the cup
Oliphant Ming: it didnt crreate the cup committee
Elisia Mayfair: Can I offer what may seem to some maybe a naive idea?
Static Sprocket: from my previous experience, the main organizing body for a group of volunteers should be limited to no more then 3 to 5 people --- more then that, and it quickly degenerates
Theodore Polonsky: Agreed
Espresso Saarinen: qed
You: folks, we're not here to discuss the SLSF cup. If we can keep to the agenda, it'll help smoothy things along tremendously
Theodore Polonsky chuckles
Theodore Polonsky: Dr Sanchez
Espresso Saarinen: i suggest we postpone for at least two weeks
Static Sprocket: The experience I have on a BoD was with the table top gaming industry, that had many levels of participation, a few hundred Retail stores, thousands of content creators, and about two dozen distributors
Theodore Polonsky: (nerd)
Theodore Polonsky: Sorry
Espresso Saarinen: and mine is bigger than yours SMILE
Theodore Polonsky laughs
Pixeleen Mistral: postponing a decision and getting a written proposal on the forums would be best I think
Pacifien Massiel: Wait, decision for what?
Espresso Saarinen: offciers/bod
Theodore Polonsky: on SLSF officers
Elisia Mayfair: Okay, what I'm thinking? From the dicsussion here? Keep SLSF as it is, but maybe there needs to be further subgroup dedicated to the racing aspects of sailing>
Oliphant Ming: proposal for what?
Static Sprocket: and the only way they could resonably get good active participation with all three tiers, much like our Clubs, Ship Designers, and Sailors -- was to have three sub-groups that each had an elected member that participated in thier "BoD" plus 2 others
Static Sprocket: that did not nessesarily come from one of the three groups
You: Why don't we all agree to support Kanker culling the inactive officers, and move the discussion of SLSF organisational structure over to the forums, to be addressed further at a future meeting?
Latifia Drillon is offline
Oliphant Ming: maybe there needs to be another group entirely
Pacifien Massiel: Well, we all get 25 groups now, if someone thinks SLSF Racing is a good idea for a group.
Pixeleen Mistral: yes
Al Kaiser: when?
Espresso Saarinen: agree myrrh
Elisia Mayfair: That's what I was trying to say, Oli.
Theodore Polonsky: I disagree about a racing group
Al Kaiser: i want a date set for the next meeting
You: We can work out a timetable in the forum discourse, al.
Static Sprocket: I have no objections to a culling
Espresso Saarinen: two weeks
Pixeleen Mistral: more pretty fireworks
Espresso Saarinen: ahh kiddies. i miss mine all grown up
Al Kaiser: 2 weeks would be fine
Theodore Polonsky: I volunteer to serve on the governance sub-committee, to work on a proposal, if we want one
Elisia Mayfair: This would be why I don't have any of my own.
Pacifien Massiel: Yo, Kazenojin Officer, go do something on the airfield. TONGUE
Oliphant Ming: a proposal for what?
Alan Kiesler: This is why I shutoff particles. SMILE
Myrrh Massiel hehs.
Espresso Saarinen: i don't think a governance committ would be wise
Carmelita Carillon: ok.. that is gonna ruin my good hair day
You: ...okay, futher discussion online - next item?..
Theodore Polonsky: I meant "group of people to talk about a proposal online"

----------------------------------------------------
END PART ONE
----------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE PROPOSAL
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1) Decision making committee shall be made up of 1 representative from each racing club.
2) Representatives shall be selected by each club by any method the club chooses. The representative is suggested to be a non-racer.
3) All committee meetings shall have chat logs and vote logs made avalible at the end of the meeting for all to access.
4) The committee will not be empowered until all interested clubs have designated representitives

Starboard's Yacht Club - MarkTwain White
Mowry Bay Yacht Club - Tasha Kostolany
Nantucket Yacht Club - Al Kaiser
----------------------------------------------------
AS DISTRIBUTED BY AL KAISER
----------------------------------------------------

Please note that SL forums don't allow posts greater than 30,000 characters, nor emoticons to be used beyond a certain threshold. I've had to break up this transcript into four parts and strip out emoticons as noted.

Unedited Chat Log
Posted by Request
You: = Myrrh Massiel

----------------------------------------------------
PART TWO
----------------------------------------------------

You: ...SLSF funds, expenses, and such...
Espresso Saarinen: join the forum and fight with pix
Pixeleen Mistral: I don't fight on the forums
You: ...kanker, i know that we haven't had any significant source of SLSF donations for a while - do you know off hand what our balance stands at?..
Espresso Saarinen: and i don't play in sl
Cory Copeland: racing should just be covered by a comittee set up by the slsf directors
Pacifien Massiel: I vote the money all go to me. I'll use it wisely in the name of my sailing enjoyment.
Kanker Greenacre: off hand, maybe around 30K
Myrrh Massiel 'kays.
Kanker Greenacre: it's all in my alt's account, and i haven't been keeping track
Oliphant Ming: racing was alwways indwependent of slsf as well
You: ...we've used a lot of the SLSF funds to support the SLSF cup expenses, plus there was the summer sailing gala, and the relay for life donations on behalf of the SLSF...
Theodore Polonsky: We've moved on, folks
Pacifien Massiel: I like the money sitting in its account until the time someone remembers they can always ask for some.
Oliphant Ming: yep...
You: ...but - we have no significant ongoing costs, and that's what i'd like to discuss...
You: ...we all know that the forums are closing, and with them, our only extant outlet for community visibility, short of folks stumbling upon us in-world...
Espresso Saarinen: many fine lunches and dineers to go with the gold badges for the 19 elected boards?
Lehua Lamington: oh come on !
You: ...i'd like to entertain the idea, not necccessarily support it, but discuss it, of the SLSF running and advertisement series *somewhere*...
Pixeleen Mistral: its just fireworls
Oliphant Ming: try makin sense espresso
Lehua Lamington: come on was for fireworks
Espresso Saarinen: sorry of i play alpha male so poorly, oli
Oliphant Ming: ??
Lehua Lamington accepted your inventory offer.
Al Kaiser: Myrrh has the money for the sims renals already been allocated?
You: ...does anyone have strong opinions about an SLSF advertising campaign?..or viable alternatives for maintaining our community's visibility?..
Espresso Saarinen: myrrh, summarize: there is money, no current need, so let sit until needs arise?
You: ...my greatest concern is that we become increasingly provincial, over time...
Theodore Polonsky: I have no objections
Pixeleen Mistral: advertize in the Herald SMILE
Theodore Polonsky: More visibility == more sailors, but also == more griefers. Facts of SL
Cory Copeland: advertising makes sense if its directed at teaching new sailors
Al Kaiser: ok i'm getting upset now - how can we talk about advertising etc whne we cannot even decide how to run our ship
Static Sprocket: I think, with the forums going away, people will turn to other outlets, blogs and things such as the Metaverse Messenger -- if a low cost advertisement of sorts can be added to those, I wouldn't be against it (and would perhaps donate towards it)
Theodore Polonsky: Al, we postponed the governance decision
Al Kaiser: we need to address the issues in order of importance
Pacifien Massiel: Hey, we talked about advertising last meeting.
Carmelita Carillon: good point Al
Theodore Polonsky: But we are moving on in other areas
Espresso Saarinen: advetisement for WHAT, exaxtly?
Pixeleen Mistral: sailing lessons Ideally
You: ...just for the record - my experiences with running SLSF cup adveritsments in the metaverse messenger over the course of this summer have been *very* poor, outright unprofessional, and i'd highly recommend not using them if there's any other option...
Elisia Mayfair: Aren't there also two blog-based papers as well?
Carmelita Carillon: what shall we bring them to, if there is nothing of substance when they get there
Theodore Polonsky: For the SLSF. General awareness that sailing happens in SL.
Pacifien Massiel: I think we can leave talk about use of SLSF Funds as "think of a reason, ask Kanker for money."
Pixeleen Mistral: right SLSF ecxists, and there are sailing lessons
Al Kaiser: exactly Cory
Brookston Holiday is offline
Myrrh Massiel nods. "Here's the SLSF, have fun with us, here are several clubs and courses!"
Theodore Polonsky: We have an awesome boat, and people to teach you to sail it, and race it.
Static Sprocket: The type of advertising to be done there, would be different then what I saw done -- it would probably work better, if done like the fishing game -- regatta results, rather then pictures
Pixeleen Mistral: Kanker, are MarkTwain's golf ads getting results?
Theodore Polonsky: And Myrrh, did you have something in mind, or just want to have a general discussion?
Kanker Greenacre: good question, pix
You: ...there's a very important reason why this needs to be discussed - oli and i had planned to support the SLSF Cup sim rentals out of our own pockets, but i fear there's a popular perception that folks can 'ask uncle kanker' whenever they need money
You: and that's just not going to be viable anymore...
Static Sprocket: Advertising is always very difficult to gauge, unless you do something like a coupon or similiar...
Al Kaiser: well i asked about the sim rentals a while back
Cory Copeland: very tre static
Cory Copeland: true
You: ...mostly i want a general discussion if the SLSF thinks it's worthwhile to support an ongoing advertisement campaign...
Al Kaiser: no
Alan Kiesler: Right now, no. Perhaps later.
Carmelita Carillon: agreed
Elisia Mayfair: Well, for myself I fould SLSF via classifieds?
Simon Walsh is offline
Theodore Polonsky: I think it's a good idea, myself.
Espresso Saarinen: if i knew what was to be advertised i could think about it
You: ...see, that's important for us to know, elisia...
Theodore Polonsky: At least in theory
Simon Walsh is online
Theodore Polonsky: I'd want to know more about the goals before we authorize funds, but I like the idea
Elisia Mayfair: I searched the classifieds for sailing and saw the Flying Tako, which took to me where they were, and there I saw the sign about SLSF.
Cory Copeland: i htink to draw new sailors to lessons... just advertizing in the events part of search works
Elisia Mayfair: Then further I got involved via searching the events, and meeting Oli
You: events posting is still free, thankfully
Espresso Saarinen: note that lessons are a club activity, and a damned good one
Lehua Lamington: sorry. cannot stay longer. things happening.
Alan Kiesler: Yeah, I think word of mouth still works best.
Svar Beckersted: aloha lehua
Mat Warf: non-free events would clear up some of the spam though...
Theodore Polonsky: OK. Myrrh, do you have a sense of what you needed? Could we move on?
You: ...well then, it seems any advertising campaign doesn't have enough support to pursue at this time - a topic for future discussion, perhaps...
You: ...the SLSF website...
Theodore Polonsky: I am in favor of it
Theodore Polonsky laughs
You: ...we're going to have a domain selected by sunday night, i'm wagering it'll be slsailing.org...
Mat Warf: I think ads would be overkill... look for boats etc, you'll end up here sooner or later
Al Kaiser: and we have permission form LL to use "sl"
Espresso Saarinen: myrrh, as you know, i have server and bandwidth facilities up the wazoo. but i do not have time to do site and forum tool maint
You: ...not permission, per se, al, but we have implied consent...
Alan Kiesler: I have both, sort of.
Alan Kiesler: (space and time)
Al Kaiser: i know someone who will help with design
Al Kaiser: and is a memebr
Arrekusu Muromachi is offline
You: ...well, right here who do we have who has volunteered to help out with setting things up?..
Theodore Polonsky: I will reg and pay for the domain
Al Kaiser: i will help support it
MarkTwain White is offline
Pixeleen Mistral: ty Theo
Espresso Saarinen: need dns service, theo?
You: i propose that espresso and theodore get together and coordinate with whomeever else volunteers to get the site into order
Alan Kiesler: I have the space, domain slot, etc. to basically hald off everything if needed.
Svar Beckersted: i second
You: and alan
Suzanne Zeluco is online
Al Kaiser: i third
Cory Copeland: and allan yes
Carmelita Carillon: agreed
Pixeleen Mistral: yes
Alan Kiesler: um, *hand off
maxxmatt Anna: y r all of you people hera
Espresso Saarinen: biggest issue will be forumware
Theodore Polonsky: Can we have an "IT Committe" role in the group?
Espresso Saarinen: that is what folk will interact with on daily basis
Static Sprocket: that's easy, don't have a forum and use mailman mailing lists SMILE
Static Sprocket hates forums
You: i trust the IT committee's judgement. WINK
Alan Kiesler: I don't think forum will be a huge issue. phpbb mosty is OK.
Espresso Saarinen: i also hate fora
Pacifien Massiel dislikes mailing lists.
Theodore Polonsky: I would love to find something that does forum and mail
Svar Beckersted: lol
Theodore Polonsky: so you can use whichever interface you like
Barb Carson is online
Alan Kiesler: Mine has just about everything available, and in quantities I can never use.
Static Sprocket: It is possible, if the server has NNTP, to setup Mailman with phpBB
Espresso Saarinen: i do net eng, not frontendware. so i will listen
Static Sprocket: with an NNTP server as the backend
Static Sprocket: and you get all three forums of communication
Espresso Saarinen: perhaps we are down a rathole that may not interest everyone?
Theodore Polonsky laughs
Static Sprocket has seen it done, but never done it himself
Theodore Polonsky: ITCom meeting at my house this week?
maxxmatt Anna: up up and a wa
Espresso Saarinen: sure, theo
You: yes, why don't you guys discuss the details, and as soon as the domain's official, you can move ahead with the DNS registrar
Theodore Polonsky: OK
Elisia Mayfair: Quick question?
Alan Kiesler: I work 3rd shift EST, so time is an issue. Ask later. SMILE
Myrrh Massiel ?s.
Theodore Polonsky: OK, Alan
Theodore Polonsky: I work from home, so...
Theodore Polonsky: I can do just about any time
Espresso Saarinen: this week i am pst
Espresso Saarinen: work from home
Elisia Mayfair: Has any thought been given to the website hosting some sort of blog that SLSF members can contribute articles if they're so inclined to do so?
Theodore Polonsky: Yes.
Alan Kiesler: That is quite possible.
You: It's been mentioned in the forum thread, yes.
Theodore Polonsky: Some thought has been given.
Cory Copeland: good idea elisa
Static Sprocket: phpNuke / PostNuke, or simliar system would allow that...
Espresso Saarinen: elisia, i fear there is no consensus and little discussion on what the front end(s) are. so pretty open.
Elisia Mayfair: Aha, cool, still trying to catch up on all the forum posts, while still finding time to actually sail SMILE
Theodore Polonsky: hehe
Theodore Polonsky: welcome to our world
Theodore Polonsky: Next!
Espresso Saarinen: someone needs to speak for th USERs
You: this is all just now getting started, elisia WINK
Espresso Saarinen: what do non-geek USERs want?
Pixeleen Mistral: more water
Svar Beckersted: what?
Cory Copeland: beer,,,,, we want beer
You: i want a functional forum, no special requests from me
Theodore Polonsky: Next!
Espresso Saarinen: thanks faykin
You: okay, clubboards
Static Sprocket: as Pix said, more water, more venues, better sim crossings...
You: you see these three rough templates i've set up here
Elisia Mayfair: Amen on the sim crossings.
Theodore Polonsky: A/B diff is just aspect ratio?
Mat Warf: more events would be nice.. thinking of doing tako tag games or something...
You: my idea is that we put together a standard-format SLSF board which any venue can set up, pointing to all the in-world sailing locations and sailing clubs
Carmelita Carillon: I have tended to steer clear of forums, in this game.. and other online games i've played... it usually ends up such a bunch of whiners.. not worth my time. I like positive influences around me,
You: yes, A and B are just different shapes
You: the actual details caqn be cleaned up, but i need to know which format to develeop
Pacifien Massiel: I like the one furthest away from me, next to Oli and Pix.
Pixeleen Mistral: me too
Theodore Polonsky: My concern with C is the same as earlier: how do we determine "affilated clubs" and what do we do when we have 20?
Pacifien Massiel: Only it needs a glowing neon rim.
Mat Warf: actually, sim crossings got a lot better in the last patch
Pacifien Massiel: And it should pulse a bit.
Mat Warf heh
Pacifien Massiel: Maybe a series of lights rotating.
Elisia Mayfair: Suggestion?
Melina Loonie is offline
Oliphant Ming: ie could spin round rtoo...
You: ...you're always welcome to interject, elisia
Espresso Saarinen: need BLING!! SMILE
Alan Kiesler: What pappens to the sign is up to the individual site I'd suppose. WINK
Elisia Mayfair: As well as the logo and the acronym, maybe find a place to write the actual words out, some people aren't quick with acronyms, and might not get what SLSF means?
Oliphant Ming: like those nice "for sale" signs
Al Kaiser: i like the left one too but will not support this till the SLSF is better defined
Pacifien Massiel: SLSF: a group for people who like to sail and stuff.
You: okay, i guess i'll need a show of support, everyone come to order for a moment?
SLSF Cubboard: Unable to give inventory: No item named 'Vagabond's Yacht Club'
Al Kaiser: not enough
SLSF Cubboard: Unable to give inventory: No item named 'Vagabond's Yacht Club'
Espresso Saarinen: personally, C, which i think al means by left (tough patooties to myrrh, theo and kankerSMILE
Pacifien Massiel: But it's say "and stuff." That covers everything!
You: all those in favor of model 'A' the square one, say SAIL
Theodore Polonsky: SAIL
Svar Beckersted: myrrh they should be numbered as everybody has a different left here today
Pacifien Massiel: SAIL with the acronym written out under it.
You: Model B, the center one that's tall and narrow, say SPIN
Alan Kiesler: Hover over each one, they're named
Theodore Polonsky: SPIN
Pixeleen Mistral: SAIL
Elisia Mayfair: SAIL
You: Model C, the one with all the individual club logos, say MOOR
Pacifien Massiel: CB!
Svar Beckersted: ok
Alan Kiesler: SAIL or SPIN
Al Kaiser: moor
Espresso Saarinen: MOOR
Carmelita Carillon: MOOR
Mat Warf: SPIN. should really be golden ratio though... WINK
Angel Sunset is offline
Myrrh Massiel hehehs.
You: okay, i'll tally the chat log later
You: next
Pacifien Massiel: What's next?
You: Al has asked taht we postpone filling SLSF Cup Committee vacancies until folks have a chance to discuss nominations at his meeting tomorrow
Svar Beckersted: I second
Al Kaiser: ty Myrrh
Pacifien Massiel: Okay, but I still nominate Svar.
Alan Kiesler: Yeah, third.
Al Kaiser: nominations are not open now
Espresso Saarinen: the written proposal al tabled applies to cup
Angel Sunset is online
Pacifien Massiel: Actually, I don't nominate anybody.
You: The cup is indepents from the SLSF, espresso, supported by it, but not under direct SLSF authority
Pacifien Massiel: But someone should nominate Svar.
You: and that can be discussed in more detail tomorrow
Cory Copeland: i agree pacifen
Al Kaiser: yes exactly
Theodore Polonsky: I raise my objection from the forums, namely, if the committee has vacancies, it is not up to the committee to select new members
Theodore Polonsky: But that's all I'll say about it
Espresso Saarinen: the three clubs who signed that understand diff betw cup and slsf. agenda for this meeting seems not to
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, supposedly it should be done at an SLSF meeting.
Pixeleen Mistral: yup
Al Kaiser: we are not - just preparing a list on nominees for vote
Pacifien Massiel: But that's if the SLSF Cup were somehow still even an SLSF thing which it's not.
Espresso Saarinen: then why discussing ath this meeting?
You: It will be. Al's not proposing that the SLSF Cup administrative meeting select its own member, only that folks hash out nominees tomorrow before the next SLSF meeting to ratify any nominations
Pacifien Massiel: Just to be difficult, Espresso.
Espresso Saarinen: i suggest reading al's document carefully
Theodore Polonsky: When does someone throw a chair and storm out?
Pixeleen Mistral: lol
You: okay, next
Pacifien Massiel: What document?
Al Kaiser: getting very close theo
Cory Copeland: when we get better chairs
Cory Copeland: lol
You: club fleet records - does the community see any reason taht the SLSF should sanction a unified format for posting regatta results and fleet progress, amongst all the differrent sailing fleets?
Pacifien Massiel: No.
Pacifien Massiel: I mean, I don't. I'm not the community.
Theodore Polonsky: No. I prefer to see it develop organically, myself. I like the goal, but don't see SLSF as the body to do it.
Al Kaiser: gees full cirlce -how can u ask that when we don't know what the SLSF is supposed to do
Espresso Saarinen: it would be useful to have help of a form, but not mandated in any way
Melina Loonie is online
Al Kaiser: we need to define the SLSF b4 anything elase
You: nothing mandated, i'm just suggesting a proposed format for clubs to standardise upon voluntarily
Espresso Saarinen: s/standardize/use/
Static Sprocket: I agree, you have to defien what the SLSF is, and what it's supposed to do, before you can define anything else -- including how it's org structure should be
Theodore Polonsky: Again, I think the clubs should sort that out amongst themselves
Al Kaiser: ty Static
Theodore Polonsky: However:
Cory Copeland: having a form available from the slsf available to the clubs would be a great service i think
Theodore Polonsky: I am working on a webapp to score regattas
Espresso Saarinen: agree theo
Pacifien Massiel: How 'bout club participation in anything be voluntary.
Theodore Polonsky: If it's useful, and clubs use it, then we get standard format
You: it is already, pacifien
Oliphant Ming: it always was Pac...
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Pixeleen Mistral: and it always will be
You: okay, next
Carmelita Carillon: I'm sorry to have to excuse myself, and no I'm not throwing a chair or storming out.. taking camper for RL overnight with family. See you all late tomorrow.
You: fall boat show
You: any volunteers?
Espresso Saarinen: if you can predict the future, pix, i have a better job for you
Pacifien Massiel is offline
Al Kaiser: bye Carm
Pacifien Massiel is online
Oliphant Ming is offline
You: no volunteers?
Kanker Greenacre is offline
Theodore Polonsky: Damn, I thought Pac had stormed out....she just crashed
Elisia Mayfair: I'm willing to help in some capacity for a boat show.
Kanker Greenacre is online
Oliphant Ming is online
Pacifien Massiel: No luck.
Pacifien Massiel: No volunteers for what?
You: fall boat show
Pacifien Massiel: Heh.
Mat Warf: What happens at the boat show exactly?
Theodore Polonsky: We look at boats
Pacifien Massiel: If Pixeleen offers Sanchon up again, maybe I'd do it.
Theodore Polonsky: Yay.
Al Kaiser: i'll offer up NYC
You: well, the biggest thing is its results - much moreso than advertising the previous boat show generated HUGE visibility for the SLSF
Pixeleen Mistral is offline
Elisia Mayfair: Well, you could also add some social events to it to, I would think?
Mat Warf: ... okay
Theodore Polonsky: I nominate Pacifien
Al Kaiser: we havea ton of water
MarkTwain White is online
Pixeleen Mistral is online
Pacifien Massiel: Nah, I'll just do it or I won't.
Theodore Polonsky: I NOMINATE PACIFIEN anyway
Myrrh Massiel hehs.
Cory Copeland: i second
Pacifien Massiel: But that's if Pixeleen is willing to fill up her sim again.
Cory Copeland: the last boat show was awesome
Espresso Saarinen: i have seen nYC. it is a good venue for a med-large scale event
Pixeleen Mistral: I'd love to fill up my sim
Theodore Polonsky: Was that dirty?
Pacifien Massiel: NYC is part of a series of sims. I think that's eight or so.
Pacifien Massiel: They're in the process of terraforming.
Al Kaiser: Paci ihve an entire sim that i could use for a show
Mat Warf: only now you mentioned it.
You: any venue to support something on this scale needs to be a 100% dedicated full-load sim, or the equivalent, spread-out
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, but I may or may not do it.
Pacifien Massiel: I got things to do.
Espresso Saarinen: and al has said nyc will. so why are we discussing?
Theodore Polonsky: Busy cat
Pacifien Massiel: 'Cause I like Sanchon?
Elisia Mayfair: Did the last boat show have social events that went hand in hand with it?
You: the last boat show brought sanchon to its knees, and it was 100% dedicated full-load
Espresso Saarinen: but you will not commit, pac
Theodore Polonsky: The question on the floor is: Boat show?
Theodore Polonsky: I vote yes
Pacifien Massiel: No, it was just a big collection of boats and there was some voting.
Theodore Polonsky: details to follow WINK
Al Kaiser: we also have an event area set up in an adjourning sim
Svar Beckersted: i vote yes
Pacifien Massiel: Well, I didn't commit to the *last* boat show either, but I did that too.
Mat Warf votes yes
Elisia Mayfair: It would seem to me like having a few mixers in there would be good for SL sailing?
Espresso Saarinen: oh a Vote show, not a Boat show. i get it.
Cory Copeland: vote yes
You: if we all agree to support a fall boat show, we can proceed with pacifien and other lucky volunteers like elisia, fill roles as needed
Pacifien Massiel: I mean, if someone else wants to do a boat show, then that's cool too.
Elisia Mayfair: Vote: Yes.
Al Kaiser: abstain
You: i think it's a good idea, espeically in light of the forum closures, and vote yes
Static Sprocket: I can't volunteer to help run things, I don't have the time any more
Alan Kiesler: abstain, I've not seen the sims in question.
Static Sprocket: but my suggestion would be to make the boat show a multi-venue affaire
Static Sprocket: with mixers and such, if that's your preference
Theodore Polonsky: e're not picking sims, we're just saying yes we should do it again!
Cory Copeland: good idea static
Elisia Mayfair: That's a good idea Static.
Theodore Polonsky: details to follow
Lil Carducci is online
Al Kaiser: i will vote when i see the details
Static Sprocket: each venue would have a similiar "transport" pad, which is clearly identifieable as a place to click and get the land marks and possibly teleports to the other venues
Espresso Saarinen: as my date card is full, i can not do work, so will abstain
You: okay, we can start a thread on the forums to recruit interested folks in organising and putting the thing together
Theodore Polonsky: or we could do it like last time, and just do it
Alan Kiesler: Posting a notice to the group can work as well now.
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, I have placards and crappy vote boxes and everything.
Elisia Mayfair: Well, there's an incredible potential here that I can see to help promote the visability of SLSF.
Espresso Saarinen: who knows. if you advertise, you might accidently get one or two new folk into the old clique
Myrrh Massiel agrees with Elisia.
Theodore Polonsky: I promised to write you a voting system, didn't I?
Pixeleen Mistral is offline
Theodore Polonsky: I change my vote
Al Kaiser: i have a good vote box - a lot better than the one used the last time
Static Sprocket: please theo, replace the rickety thing I threw together
Pixeleen Mistral is online
Pacifien Massiel: Man, Espresso, if you want a boat show, just get someone to do it. That's how it happened last time, there wasn't some secret society vote, you know.
Theodore Polonsky: wb pix
Circe Broom is online
You: okay, any other new business?
Pixeleen Mistral: why do I keep crashing?
Static Sprocket: SL hates you?
You: that covers everything i proposed in my agenda
Pacifien Massiel: I know SL hates me.
Pixeleen Mistral: werer did all the people go?
Pacifien Massiel: Change groups?
You: change groups, pixie
Oliphant Ming is offline
You: if nobody else has any further business to discuss today, i say we're adjourned
Theodore Polonsky: seconded
Alan Kiesler: nod
Cory Copeland: w00t
You: woohoo!
You: no bloodshed! WINK

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END PART TWO
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SLSF CLUBBOARDS
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SLSF Clubboard prototypes Beta A, Beta B, and Beta C are available for viewing in-world by request. Please IM Myrrh Massiel for details.
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AS SUBMITTED BY MYRRH MASSIEL
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Please note that SL forums don't allow posts greater than 30,000 characters, nor emoticons to be used beyond a certain threshold. I've had to break up this transcript into four parts and strip out emoticons as noted.

Unedited Chat Log
Posted by Request
You: = Myrrh Massiel

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AFTERWORD
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Pacifien Massiel: Now off with all of you, I need to tear up this dock.
Pixeleen Mistral: not yet
Cory Copeland: lol myrrh
Pacifien Massiel: Oh wait, what's Pixeleen got?
Al Kaiser: coz we didn't accomplish anything
You: whatcha got, pixie?
Oliphant Ming is online
Pacifien Massiel: We never accomplish anything at these things.
Pixeleen Mistral: Al, when you post to the forum, will you please define "active" club?
Pixeleen Mistral: thanks
Al Kaiser: i will
Theodore Polonsky: Al, do you want to talk proposals today?
Theodore Polonsky: I can stick around.
Elisia Mayfair: I'll definitely be posting on the boat show thread, because I have a few ideas roaming around in my head.
Espresso Saarinen: the diff between this meeting and the same sized one of the folk who agreed on written proposal is very interesting. consensus vs power plays.
Alan Kiesler: I can hang around, sure.
Myrrh Massiel can, too.
Pacifien Massiel: I'm just one power hungry kitty.
Al Kaiser: Theo i need to get with the others first
Al Kaiser: some time this week ok?
Theodore Polonsky: Sure. I'm not asking you to commit to anything for them, just having a conversation, but anytime is good.
Espresso Saarinen: theo, call it meeting at your convenience. if i can help, i will come
Static Sprocket: espresso, I find it amusing that 3 clubs came to a concensus of how to appoint people to run an organization, without having the duties, goals and repsonsibilities of said organization defined first...
Theodore Polonsky: And without the input of the other 4 or 5 clubs....
You: well, that's why we need to take the discussion to the forums to allow for more thorough discourse, static
Pacifien Massiel: Can't we all just agree that half the other yacht clubs suck?
Espresso Saarinen: the point static is that lsf, cup, ... are all perceived as old boys clubs with unlevel playing fields. folk will either level fields or play will be elsewhere. makes no diff to me.
Al Kaiser: well if yu read the forums it was clear that there was a big push to fill the Com seats
Al Kaiser: i could only get to 3 clubs in for this meeting
You: we had some irreconcilable differences of opinion regarding their proposal today, and those need to be worked out before we approach changing the SLSF from its ad-hoc loose-mutual-support status quo
Theodore Polonsky: My experience with stuff like this, though, is that large group discussion can sometimes deteriorate, while a small group may be able to come up with a proposal that satisfies the majority
Espresso Saarinen: agee myrrh
Oliphant Ming: cup can be anything you want...
Espresso Saarinen: group yesterday wss ame size. which was my point
Espresso Saarinen: we know cup can oli. you have demonstrated that well
Static Sprocket: wait, am I miss understanding something here -- were the 3 clubs coming to a concensus on the SLSF or the Cup Committee?
Oliphant Ming: I have??
Theodore Polonsky: Yes
Oliphant Ming: how so??
You: my understanding is that they were discussing SLSF management, nothing to do with the Cup. the cup's on tomorrow's agenda
Pacifien Massiel: Oh yeah, Oli, did anyone mention that everyone thinks you griefed the SLSF Cup?
Al Kaiser: it started with the cup Static and then the subject of SLSF oficiers came up and we have the same feelings
Oliphant Ming: not yet\...
Pixeleen Mistral: well, pacifien, you jusrt did...
Al Kaiser: ALL clubs have equal say
Oliphant Ming: its a good idea for a laugh
Pacifien Massiel: I thought maybe the rumor reached a point where Oli should at least know that.
Theodore Polonsky nods
Theodore Polonsky: Thanks Pac, we had a kitty in the room, didn't need an elephant too
Theodore Polonsky: Unless it's Pix's
Myrrh Massiel hehs.
Cory Copeland: lol theo
Static Sprocket: well, I most hartilly disagree with anything that could potentially put a large number of people in charge of an organization that hasn't been defined yet --- for the purposes of the Cup committee, that sounds fine, one seat for each club participating
Espresso Saarinen: theo, i see your point of teh level field including beyond clubs. and i think others will.
Pacifien Massiel: Well, half of the people here think the other half suck already, I figured it was a good time to throw that one out too.
Elisia Mayfair: What the?
Pixeleen Mistral: its an elephant
Theodore Polonsky: So, shall we lynch Oli now, or wait til later?
Espresso Saarinen: but i suspect that, in the long run, organizational participation will center around clubs
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: I'm about to start juggling! Sit on one of the pink balls when they appear.
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: The juggle balls are out! Sit on one!
Oliphant Ming: y'all are free to try
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: Juggling in 5 seconds!
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: 4!
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: 3!
Pacifien Massiel: Organizational participation *already* centers around clubs.
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: 2!
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: 1!
Pink Juggling Elephant 2.3: Juggle time!
Pacifien Massiel: The SLSF has no organization.
Espresso Saarinen: how sadly childish
Elisia Mayfair: LMAO!
Oliphant Ming: never did have
Al Kaiser: ok time for me to go
Static Sprocket: I find it amusing the elephant is standing on Al WINK
You: ...wheeee!..
Espresso Saarinen: ahh that;s why it has meetings with agendae and officers
Cory Copeland: woo hoo
Oliphant Ming: we seldom meet even
Espresso Saarinen: there is only so much sanctimonious bullshit anytone can believe
Al Kaiser: i do not share this light hearted approach to sailing
Pacifien Massiel: Hey, Kanker can invite whoever he wants to the group.
Arrekusu Muromachi is offline
Theodore Polonsky: Well, I agree we should move towards more structure, but you can't expect that to happen overnight
Pacifien Massiel: I think the meetings are called to see if anyone has any good ideas, but structure to those ideas is always lacking.
Theodore Polonsky: And "more structure" doesn't equal "let the clubs run it"
Elisia Mayfair: That's just it though, some people simply enjoy sailing for the social and comraderie aspect, not the competitive aspect.
Espresso Saarinen: fwiw, i am a syndaclist anarchist. but i do not pretend there is not structure here. and i am not against minimalizing it.
Pacifien Massiel: Yes, I agree with Elisia.
Cory Copeland: there should be a sicial comittee in the slsf elisia
Cory Copeland: social
Espresso Saarinen: yes, lisiia, i am more a cruiser than racer
Elisia Mayfair: I agree on that, Cory.
Theodore Polonsky: Some comparisons to RL may be worthwhile
Theodore Polonsky: Social stuff is the function of individual YCs
Pacifien Massiel: The purpose of the SLSF was that anyone interested in anything about sailing could join. It had people handing out info about regattas, boat shows, casual sails, relay for life...
Elisia Mayfair: There seems to be a lot of discussion about the Cup, but I think that social events and mixers should play a role too.
Pacifien Massiel: It was anything that might hold interest to the SLSF.
Pacifien Massiel: The clubs are for people who want structure.
Espresso Saarinen: MBYC knows nothing aboutthe social aspects SMILE
Cory Copeland: lol espresso
Theodore Polonsky: Where associations exist for racing and ranking etc
Espresso Saarinen: MBYC has no formal structure, all consensus
Elisia Mayfair: I agree Paci, the trick is that it was only through finding clubs, and being fortunate enough to rent where Oli is that I even MET and found other sailors
Elisia Mayfair: SLSF needs to organize some things to hook people up outside of YC structure, I'm thinking.
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, I'm a big believer in word of mouth.
Theodore Polonsky: Elisia, I would say that the social aspect really does belong to clubs, and groups of clubs.
Static Sprocket: fun, non-Uber-competitive, sailing events is where the fun is for myself
Pacifien Massiel: Well, I'm not of any particular yacht club. If I do organize something, it's usually under the banner of SLSF by default.
Theodore Polonsky: Where SLSF is really high-level sailing in general
Cory Copeland: you know what would work is giving away learn to sail packages to the dance clubs to give away as prizes
Pixeleen Mistral: Cory, that is a good idea
Theodore Polonsky: with strippers in the boat
Cory Copeland: w00t theo
Theodore Polonsky: "Take an Escort Sailing"
You: The SLSF is essentially here to promote sailing and sailing enthusiasm in all its forms, across Second Life. Ancillary to that, it provides a forum for mutual support amongst individual clubs. That's all it has been to date, nothing more.
Cory Copeland: we're gonna get naked racing yet
You: No secret cabal, no power plays, no 'authority'.
Pacifien Massiel: Yeah, set up a little sailing package in a box would be good. Now someone just needs to put the box together.
Elisia Mayfair: I know that last night I ended up giving out a lot of landmarks to someone I met a club that was ex Navy and loved sailing. Had no clue you could sail in SL
Static Sprocket: and that's what I think it should stay
Theodore Polonsky: TINC
Cory Copeland: exactly elisia
Static Sprocket: the SLSF, in my humble opinion, should not be a governning body for sailing in SL
Static Sprocket: it should simply be a structure, to help support communication
Pacifien Massiel: I obviously agree with Static.
Oliphant Ming: It never was, Static
Theodore Polonsky: Should there be one?
Oliphant Ming: I agree
Pixeleen Mistral: set up a seperate organization
Elisia Mayfair: Right.
Pacifien Massiel: If there is one, that's the for the yacht clubs to discuss, I think.
Oliphant Ming: an SLYEU if you will
Static Sprocket: thus, giving clubs seats in it's BoD or whatever, is counter...
Espresso Saarinen: chow for niao
Pacifien Massiel: I wouldn't transform SLSF to fill that need, though.
Oliphant Ming: no
Pixeleen Mistral: SLYRU
Elisia Mayfair: I agree there, Paci.
Oliphant Ming: thats what I meant
Pixeleen Mistral: Second Life Yacht Racing Union
Static Sprocket: if soming wants a SL Racing group, then that should be done differently --- that's *IF* people wanted standardized regattas, racing rules, and committees
Pixeleen Mistral: I agree with static
Elisia Mayfair: Then SYRU can focus on the racing aspects, and SLSF can focus on the social/support/promotion aspects.
Oliphant Ming: I too
Pacifien Massiel: The problem is that we have people who really want structure, but SLSF didn't start that way. They'll have to fight people who joined the SLSF who never wanted structure.
You: Club representation is worthwhile for one reason, though - they speak for large active parts of SL's sailing community. That doesn't imply the exclusion of other voices, but clubs' voices should definitely be heard.
Static Sprocket: and clubs that wanted to adhear to the standards set by *THAT* group should have equal vote in that group
Pacifien Massiel: If they get structure, people like me are unhappy. If they don't get structure, I'm happy but they're not. Damned either way.
Myrrh Massiel needs to jaunt away for a bit. Thanks for dropping in, all!
Pixeleen Mistral: this is why you need tow different organizations

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END AFTERWORD
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Please note that SL forums don't allow posts greater than 30,000 characters, nor emoticons to be used beyond a certain threshold. I've had to break up this transcript into four parts and strip out emoticons as noted.