The Law and MMORPG's

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=402860

A fascinating read on how the law is reaching into online communities and MMORPG's.

Sketcher

Ya beat me to it! I had thought to post that link here.
I'm still intimidated to read it, because it clocks in at
a 100+ pages. What were some of the most interesting
points, in your read of it?

For me the coolest part was the history of online communities ( many of which I've played with or in during my life. )

Additionally, I found intriguing that, given the opportunity to completely re-do theo world, most people will simply choose to continue the economic and social paradigms that they are used to.

The real world squabbles over occurences in the online world are quite amazing. People suing each other over the sale of virtual property and the rights of players in a game versus the rights of the people who run/own the game.

I'm interested to see how this space evolves as people are able to create more and more realistic objects until they become like the holodeck in Star Trek.

Crazy stuff....and I'm not even a lawyer!

That does sound interesting. Now I just need to work up the gumption to read it!

I do wonder about the nature of legal rights, in an online game/community. Not now, perhaps, but 3-5 years from now, I can very easily imagine that MMOGs will become so common and popular, they'll lose much of their distinction as being mere entertainment. For example, what happens when many people begin to use MMOGs for international communication (in lieu of phone calls), or even virtual business meetings? At that point, does the MMOG become a "public accomodation", and the company must cede some real world rights to their subscribers?

To take a real world example, people may remember a recent case, where security guards in a shopping mall kicked a guy off the premises, for wearing an anti-war T-shirt and apparently lecturing passerbys about his views. Many interpreted this as a violation of his First Amendment rights; contrary to that, others pointed out that the shopping mall was private property, so the owners were well within their rights to eject him. The other side again argued that the mall is not only private property, but also a "public accomodation", which the citizens depend on, for needed goods and services.

So who's right? I ain't no lawyer, either, but from what I understand, there are legal precedents which give weight to each side, and the US courts at least are still hashing it out. So you have to imagine a debate like this will one day find its way into the MMOG world-- and in the courtroom.

I would really hate to have to pay the lawyers to find out who's right.

Yes, it's a daunting 100+ pages but it's very readable and the authors have great snarky jokes throughout. Besides, this is a really groundbreaking work.

The authors address two separate legal issues: property rights and "avatar rights" and place the issues within a historical context of property rights in Western history. They point out that property law has been shifting from the tangible (ie. "I own this piece of land" to the intangible (ie. "I own this intellectual property" over time and virtual worlds take the next logical step.

The issues discussed are very relevant to Second Life which is heavily focused on property, buildings, and avatars.

If nothing else, you should read it to find out what the words "fungible" and "usufruct" mean.

Skyllar Skidoo

Isn't "Fungible and Usufruct" the title of a cop show from Denmark?


Ahem. You know what would be really cool? If there was a lawyer or a law student who plays SL, and I interview them to get their opinion on the paper. If you come across any in-world, send 'em my way!

I think I read it was 1979 when compuserv was charging 14.95 an hour to play some mud. Now I dont feel to bad paying 14.95 a month unlimited play for SL with outstanding graphics.
Couldnt read it all, but will later.

I looked at the document mentioned above but didn't have the attention span to really study it.

On the other hand I'd love to see some sort of summary about the following class being offered at Stanford Law School.

Anyone living out that way want to see if it's possible to sit-in without paying what I'm sure would normally be an astronomical tuition?

http://www.lessig.org/classes/

Spring 2003 Term

Law and Virtual Worlds

Course Number: 348-0-01 / 2 Units

Taught with Julian Dibell

What rules actually regulate communities with cyberspace? Are they rules or technology? What mix between prescriptions and norms is there? This seminar will explore a wide range of "virtual communities," to investigate these issues. Julian Dibbell is a writer and one of the first to describe life and law in virtual worlds. His work is the reason Professor Lessig began work in the law of cyberspace.

Pretty cool! Wonder what Mr. Dibble would make of SL... maybe we can bring him by the office for a visit. (If he hasn't been by already.)

So, you're telling me nobody in SL has yet to make a court house where two parties can go to settle a dispute? I mean we could get a jury pretty easily (just ask some people passing by, give them a little money.

Hmm, let's see....

Court Fees: 300 from both participants (total of 600).
Jury: Let's say about 5 people (pay 100 to each person)
Judge: gets 100 also.

The prosecution and defense gets to present their case (5 minute timelimit each)

They may select say 4 witnesses (2 from each side). Each witness gets a 2 minute interview from the side that called upon them, followed by a 2 minute Q&A from the other side.

After the evidence and such has been presented, the jury goes into a room and talks about it. Comes to a decision, selects someone to state the decision to the court. The two sides must have agreed beforehand to abide by whatever the jury decision is. The judge is there to maintain order during the session....say it could work

That's an excellent idea!

I'm going to build a jail!

Bosozoku

Right, I'll work on the courthouse. Does anyone want to volunteer for working judge and jury duty when needed? The pay is $100 per session.

One very good idea would be to bar anyone with RL legal experience or a law degree from serving as judge or counsel.

Why? In my mind they would be the best, they would understand the law better and how to apply law. They would understand how RL disputes that are settled in RL can be applied to SL...

They would be the best in my opinion, rather than some brainless dolt who doesn't know anything about law and just comes up with some random decision.

JV

If you're going to allow the SL "legal system" to get as screwed up as the real world court system (in the US), then you might as well cancel the project right now.

BTW, in case you've forgotten, the jury makes the decisions, not the judge, and not the lawyers. The jury is supposed to be a jury of the defendant's peers.

And unless I've missed something somewhere, we don't have a set of SL laws for lawyers to argue over, anyway. This is basically the equivalent of a small claims court.

Well, seeing as there haven't been any murders outside of the killing area (clearly marked as such) I doubt we'd need anything other than a small claims court.

There is currrently a court being assembled in Blue's Americana Hall, right next to the jail, upstairs. Intiailly it was being planned for cases arising in Blue once we obtain our independance and self governance, But maybe we could lease it out.

See me in world if interested.
Crow

Speaking of which, they just had a mock trial before an actual judge, trying to decide if virtual property lost during a hack on a MMOG qualifies as property loss. (Link via Greg Costikyan's site, also worth bookmarking: http://www.costik.com/weblog/ )

http://business.fullerton.edu/ecastronova/

In a mock trial convened before U.S. Circuit Court Judge Philip M. Pro, the Hacker Court's jury accepted the proposition that the virtual items destroyed during the hack of an online video game constituted real loss. The jury hung on the question of whether a certain 'Weasel' actually conspired with a certain 'Terron' to hack into a game server and destroy items, so no verdict was reached. However, the value of the potential loss of the hack was not in dispute. A subsequent poll revealed that the overwhelming majority of the 200-strong audience of computer and networking specialists (drawn from the Black Hat conference of cybersecurity professionals) agreed with the jury's opinion regarding the existence of real value in the case...

Ok, is it just me or does this seem familiar?

The first thing that the former colonists of America did after achieving independence from England was to attempt to make a king of George Washington. Fortunately, there were some really level heads around at the time, and this group of men chose to institute a new form of government, rather than repeat the mistakes of the past. Thus, governmental structure took an (arguably short-lived) step forward.

My point is, do we want to fall back on old, perhaps even outdated or outmoded systems of government in order to govern the issues of what is obviously a new form of living? I'm quite sure that we have some pretty bright people in SL (I've met some of them), and we all live in what amounts to a playground of the mind, one that is sure to become, sooner or later, a completely borderless habitat. Why don't we use some of these well practiced creative impulses and create for ourselves a newer and more adaptable form of government?

The late Canadian Prime Minister Louis St Laurent once said of the practice of Law that it was not just a profession, but one of the Humanities, as well. That may have been true when he said it, some fifty years ago. In our time the legal profession is defiled, mostly through failing to regulate its own membership, and viewed by many - with good reason - as little more than a collection of pimps and con artists.
I'm against RL lawyers being involved in SL legal proceedings mainly because a non-lawyer is hopefully going to be making a decision based on common sense and common law, rather than confusing things by referring to Real World precedent cases that might have very little bearing in Second Life.

For the longest time I've had the idea of having a courthouse with judge and jury for Second Life, but being the person who wanted to be supreme judge, I figured that's just impossible. If there is any known player in the game who would be appointed judge, that person would constantly be sucked up to or bashed on by good/evil people. Those who know me the most know that I try my best to always be fair and balanced, but that my mind is also easily swayable

So I just file abuse reports and let the Lindens take care of it, seems easier

A new tape has been found in the O.J. Simpson murders that insiders say contain evidence that will convict O.J. What is on the tape? The first O.J. trial.

Sorry, just had to say that