Thoughts on the Tax Revolution

My first entry on the Fleabite-led tax revolt is up today, and I'm seeking quotes on it and the subsequent teacrate rebellion, now that a few weeks have passed since its inception. I'll be asking the Lindens to offer their side of the story, in a future entry. So for now, these questions are for revolutionaries, counter-revolutionaries, and interested bystanders:

1) How do you think it's going so far?

2) What, if anything, should have been done differently, in your opinion?

3) Would you like to see similar protests in Second Life, in the future?

Post here, for potential quotage!

1) I think it's going well, but quieting down. I believe because most realize it's in fun, so the simmering has cooled down some.

2) More gurls. If I recall my kindergarten studies correctly, each revolutionary solider was issued a musket, some hardtack, a tin cup, and 3 gurls. Oh and a mule, cookie got a mule, and a sack of flour. I believe ramon is "cookie" in this revolution.

3) Yes! I love how Lindens, even if it's sissy pants attired redcoat Lindens, have been involved -- even if semi-quietly, it's nice to see some "gm" involvement. I am pleasantly surprised that the revolution was allowed to fester and boil without being squashed from above.

Boso

I've been watching it as mostly a bystander and I appreciate the tongue-in-cheekness of it all and the mature way in which the protestors have carried out this whole thing. I think they've handled it very well and very maturely. Got the community's attention without flaming or kicking up a huge fuss.

I guess I'm too Canadian. We never revolted. My ancestors were Loyalists. We turned out quite well after not revolting And hey, I get taxed 15% on most everything I buy. I'm used to taxes! Hee hee.

I also live in the land of the protests. The Provincial sports here in BC seem to be hockey, lacrosse, and protesting. I maintain that protests are a very healthy part of society. You may not agree that all people should become vegans, or that logging needs to be stopped, but these voices are all important. They may not change our minds, but they make us think about the issues. Nothing bothers me more than people who say 'protestors should just shut up, they can't change anything now.' Particularly about recent action in Iraq. I heard people around me shunning protestors.
Just because protestors can't change something that's started in motion doesn't mean they should put down their placards. Every voice is important, every voice counts! GO protestors. Make your voices heard on important issues. I may not wave a placard beside you, but I wholeheartedly support your right to be heard, and I admire you for speaking out against things you think are wrong.

Although I can't get into the protest myself, mostly because I'm pretty sure the Lindens are working something out for 1.1, and my current bank book is mostly balancing, I do support their right to wage protest and think it's an important development of our society. And let's face it, we are a society here. A miniature one in comparison, and one with different rules, but a society nonetheless.


That said, I do get several nasty accounting surprises. As it has been mentioned in a billion tax threads, all the thrifty building/buying/saving in the world won't help you if your stipend drops $1000 for no reason overnight

All right. It's really late, and I'm going to bed. I'm sure I'll read this tomorrow and wonder what the heck I was thinking

</endramble.>

"I honestly believe that they did over inflate the stippend in the begining like Ian Linden said. I also believe it sure made SL look pretty for the grand opening. I do not however believe anyone should have to now take thier builds down as a result of such an error. To own up to the mistake is one thing but I dont need to hear that "only the stong will survive" In RL the rich get richer and I do have to deal with taxes. Now that is in my 1st life. My 2nd life was suppose to release me from those woes not contain more of the same. I believe in SL I love it adore it even I do believe it has a strong furture. With that said they realy need to listen to thier customers needs FIRST or they will end up like The Sims Online. My advice is to ditch the canned answers, ditch any advice on thinking about this from anyones point of view but the paying customers. There are so many excessivly; talented, hysterically funny, and brilliant ppl in this game wanting to make it to succeed. Ignore them and you realy dont have a business. Part of me wonders if this realy has been the plan along after all if nothing else less builds does cut down on the lag. Guess they just didnt figure ppl would be so passionate about thier work here? I would also like to say it doesnt just take hours for a great build it literally takes weeks and months. It only takes and hour to take down that work. Who wouldnt be upset by having to dismantle that much time and energy?"

yes you may quote me and contact me at any time.

Catherine Cotton

I have said this before, but I will repeat it again:

"The revolution, although remiscient of a similar situation in the early history of the United States, is not completely accurate. The revolutionaries are people who work and create in a themed community, because themed communities are being the most hard hit with the current tax structure.

The revolutionaries are NOT asking for a SL wide removal of taxes, just a tax reduction in themed communities. There are areas within SL that land costs have been changed as well as prim tax costs reduced... Aqua and Olive, respectively. If those sims could be adjusted, why couldn't the tax structure within themed communities be adjusted slightly lower. People have the misunderstanding that a 10 meter by 10 meter cube is more prim usage than a 1 meter by 1 meter cube... they are both one prim in the eyes of the prim usage system.

There are a few glitches in the "neighbor discount" system as well... if you buy land near the border of a sim that has no bordering sim, or even if there is one, the "neighbor discount" system does not count in the neighboring sim in its calculations. That only goes to tell people, 'If you want land, buy in the middle of a sim'.

Currently, the only way for themed communities to actually survive is by hosting events... constantly. There is an fundamental problem with this: not everyone is a social creature. Forcing someone to be social in this aspect takes away time from these people's scripting and building in the communities just so they can stay anyway solvent. This forces a way of thinking on someone that might not enjoy that type of gameplay.

We know that the Lindens love having the themed communities, and enjoy what is built there... but unless something is done to help the themed communities thrive and prosper, they are slowly going to die off under the tremendous weight of the tax structure.

There are three things that the Lindens can do on their end to help alleviate this situation:

- Adjust the taxes collected on land and objects within themed communities... this isn't precedent, and has been done in the past.

- Try to figure out a way to take neighboring sims into account when figuring out the "neighbor discount", and not penalizing those who happen to own land near a sim border, especially those who own land that borders empty space since there is no sim currently there at the moment (this is an unknown possibility and may not happen because of programming constraints)

- For future themed sims/communities, maybe a reduction in land purchase cost (again, land costs being Linden adjusted is not unheard of), and a subsequent refund to current themed sim/community land owners of an equal percentage amount.

We all want SL to succeed, but since creating the world is the main theme of SL, when people are taxed to a point where they can no longer do that because of lack of funds, especially in themed communities, it gets very frustrating and, well, boring."

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

I'm new to SL. On the weekend, I finally signed up as a full resident and got my first installment of SL cash. I had a whole whack of Linden dollars, so I immediately bought land in Perry and built a Canadiana-themed home and shop.

This may have been a mistake. I'm completely broke, and with a weekly stipend of only $1000 (plus a bonus if I'm a social butterfly), I can hardly afford to do anything in SL.

Everything costs SL money... teleporting, "rez-ing" objects, land, and of course, the taxes. The taxes alone are bizarrely high. Most of my weekly stipend goes to pay taxes, which leaves me able to do almost nothing in SL. This leads me to ask... why should I keep paying REAL money to keep using Second Life?

If there's a technical problem with allowing people to build freely, then Linden Lab should solve that, and not cripple their customers' ability to play their game.

Cubey, contact me in-game so I can talk with you about how the tax and stipend works. The problem most people have when arriving in SL is being too ambitious too quickly--and, like FL, our lives have to be built up from scratch. Might be able to give you some tips on how to fix your financial problems. The tax system, if you learn it, can be very helpful--and you don't have to cheat it, either.

I had the idle thought that if everyone were given a certain number of prims they could use, that might be one solution. If you only have a small house, not really into building, you could sell your prim rights to other players, the way that "Air Rights" and Pollution Credits are sold in RL.

If anyone here is paying too much money in taxes, see me in game, or if you cant ever find me online, send me an IM, drop a landmark on my calling card and I will get them when I log on.

Eggy Lippmann, Financial Consultant

Congrats, oh brave protesters! Not only did your revolt get a featured link
on Slashdot, it garnered a write-up on a YALE LAW SCHOOL site!

I like this quote from the Yale article:

"...there's been a remarkable consistency to in-game expressions of political protest. When things get tough, the tough get silly."

I'm a little embarrassed (just a little, mind you) that the tax protests, which were essentially role-playing, are being discussed this seriously. But I understand the author needed a controversial topic to lead into their "gaming and law" conference, and this just might be as controversial as it gets.

It's a good article.

But has anyone actually *tried* to make a private robot army? Now that would be cool.

Yes.

SHOW ME!

So in essence what you are saying is you want taxes gone... ok...

Well guess what! All of us Beta Testers that have been in the game forever would own every piece of land and have them all at max object usage...

There would be no room ever for new players, you would not even have a chance in SL.

hmmm... since you want them to solve the technical problems i guess your response would be, ADD MORE SERVERS.....

Ok lets follow your line of logic...

1. beta testers would still have more money and would buy up most of the new land.
2. Servers aren't free nor are they free to run. They need to have a certain number of paying customers per server to not lose money. If they lose money it shuts down and none of us can play.

So in short the tax system is meant to keep a level playing field and to make you earn lots of money not just get it handed to you and to make sure the system doesn't get filled up. Without the tax system you wouldn't even be able to own anything to pay taxes on... chew on that one for a while....

JV

Actually, Jonathan, I'm not saying any of those things. After a few weeks of SL, I now realize that taxes play an important roll in keeping down the ugly clutter in sims. Moreover, newbies shouldn't have the resources to engage in massive builds until they learn to build in a way that supports the surrounding environment and community.

However, I don't feel that the tax system works as it should. Somehow good builders should be rewarded for building excellent structures and art without being penalized too harshly in taxes. I think a better voting system would help, as Tiger Crossing has suggested (see the Feature Requests forum), and in that way offset the burden of taxes.

Excellent I'm glad you've learned it.... Sorry if i was a bit harsh, the constant whining from some about just wanting to build freely bugs me... no offense meant.

I do agree things should be adjusted and the lindens are great at listening to our requests.

JV