Diagnosing Lag issues
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-01-2009 14:37
Hi... Relatively new to SL. Tried searching for answers and can't quite be sure I'm on target.
- How do I know how to respond to the Lag Meter when it reads Red most of the time?
I consistently see the lag-meter say that I have Client isssues. Red, Yellow, Red... almost never green, mostly Red. Even if my camera is looking at blank wall, I get a Red Client lag meter reading. It almost always says "possible cause: images loading".
Earlier this week, I went to a "bar" with lots of people, and nobody's avatar was anything but grey for the longest time. Looked at one avatar (only) for 30 minutes, never showed anything by a grey form. Often, I have trouble walking through a sim.
I can't believe my Mac isn't fast enough: - G5, Dual 2.0 Ghz processors - 4 GB RAM - ATI Radeon 9600 with 128 MB of memory
When I look at my Mac's activity monitor, it shows SL as high as 65% of CPU, the the % of idle CPU is often quite low (0% to 1%). Memory is fine, though.
So, how do I know where to dig in first? I have read several out-of-date seeming pages that describe what Graphics settings should be. I've set mine to "Low" and I still get Red Client readings in the Lag meter.
So... what to do? It often seems friends on windows machines are having a better experience in SL...
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Taff Nouvelle
Virtual Business Owners
Join date: 4 Sep 2006
Posts: 216
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02-01-2009 15:42
go to preferences and turn the settings down to minimum, then try it, if it is still happening, then it is probably your internet connection, if it cures it, try going to a slighly higher level until you find the max that you can run comfortably
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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02-01-2009 15:44
From: Wolf Braham - ATI Radeon 9600 with 128 MB of memory This is your problem. Your video card is old and slow. Try this, open the "Advanced" menu (Ctrl-Option-D on the Mac). In that menu, go to "Rendering" and check "Run Multiple Threads". It'll speed things up for you.
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Missy Malaprop
♥Diaper Girl♥
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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02-01-2009 18:57
Radeon 9600 is very old and not even close to as fast as current low end cards... it could be a combination of that along with your bandwidth.... have you tested your connection speed?
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Awnee Dawner
object returned to sim
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 206
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02-01-2009 19:50
hey! for "old" machines you may try "Cool SL Viewer v1.19.0.5 release 45" (stable, legacy renderer) - no windlight set texurememory to 1/4 - 1/2 the videocards memory "vbo" on CAN improve fps for some machines/cards draw distance to 64 "Cool SL Viewer v1.19.0.5 release 45" download at http://hyangreflections.blogspot.com/
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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Awesome replies
02-01-2009 22:35
Thanks for the quick and good replies!
re: settings to minimum - Did that, and still see Red on the lag meter for Client. However, Network and Server show green almost always. Why would it be internet connection if the Lag Meter shows those as Green?
re: video card - I thought that could be it, but before I spend $$$ on a newer card, I was hoping to try everything that doesn't cost first. I've now set it to "Run Multiple Threads" and hope that helps. No immediate impact on the Lag Meter, though. Still shows Red.
re: bandwidth - Again, not clear on why Network would show green if it were a connection of downloading speed. I can DL at pretty high speeds (cable modem), so I'm not at all convinced it is bandwidth.
re: Cool SL Viewer - Downloading now?
If it turns out to be the video card, what is the least expensive option I have for one that will run SL smoothly? It has to work in a G5, of course -- and that's where I'm running low on reference info.
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TexasKat76 Broome
Registered User
Join date: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 33
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02-01-2009 22:39
Wolf, are you running it wireless? That's been an issue with some 'older' Macs. If so, can you run without wireless to check that?
One other thing.... particles seem to be disporportionately impact the older Mac I've used in the past.
View --> Beacons --> Hide Particles
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Awnee Dawner
object returned to sim
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 206
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02-02-2009 05:31
hey!
you can open "statistics bar" this will show you fps, bandwidth, packets loss, simping and simstats
view / statistics bar or cmd + shift + 1
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-02-2009 17:59
From: Awnee Dawner hey!
you can open "statistics bar" this will show you fps, bandwidth, packets loss, simping and simstats
Thanks! This gives slightly more information than the Lag Meter. For instance, fps is always lower than 15 or so, sometimes lounging around 8 or less. However, Bandwidth is harder for me to interpret. I see 30-40 mostly, with occasional bursts over 300 kbps. At the moment, I'm looking at five or six people who are not moving. There is a Zyngo machine in the background that hasn't rezzed in five minutes, one person's clothes remain fuzzy, and another person is all grey except for her hair and shoes. How can I tell if this is client or bandwidth? Any recommendations on inexpensive upgrade cards for this G5? I don't want to spend $300...
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Awnee Dawner
object returned to sim
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 206
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02-03-2009 04:28
hey!
bandwidth will show the bandwidth used -> datas fetched to your machine ie at simload i have bandwidth up to 900 in idle "reading a book" bandwidth 2 - 10
depends on your viewer some viewers will load textures faster or should load faster
the best is to start playing around with the viewers graphic setting to increase fps rate (i have all streaming media and voice disabled too)
for the future i would recommend to buy another machine for sl -> intelbased i know its boring, ....
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Missy Malaprop
♥Diaper Girl♥
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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02-03-2009 21:16
From: Wolf Braham Any recommendations on inexpensive upgrade cards for this G5? I don't want to spend $300...
thats not easy on that computer. If its one of the G5s that has PCI Express, you can get a Radeon X1900 G5 Mac edition, but it costs over $300 still I think (which is a total rip, since i bought a X1950XT for a Windows/Linux machine a year ago for barely over $100) YOu could get your hands on one of the older 9800s up from the 9600.... they were quite a bit faster, but still pretty low end for today.... People say get the Tower Macs for upgradability... yet in the truth, it doesn't help much as hardly anyone makes compatible upgrade parts, and when they do they make them cost about 4X as much as they should.
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leliel Mirihi
thread killer
Join date: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 129
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02-04-2009 00:12
He has an agp G5 and it is one of the most upgradeable macs around tho it is getting long in the tooth. For reference i have a dual 2GHz G5 with 4GB of ram and a 6800gt and it runs plenty fine using the 1.22.7 client. The video card is the most likely reason for the slow downs tho you shouldn't expect to much from the machine. As for upgrading your best bet is to...get a pc card and flash it with a hack'd rom. you can get a 9800pro/6800gt for almost nothing on ebay and have a fully working card. Or there are other cards you could flash that would be mostly functional such as the x800xt (no dvi). But the first thing you should do is ask yourself how long you plan on keeping this machine. Anyway google is your friend.
Edit: i just realized that you're probable using the 1.21 client which has a lot of bugs that cause slow texture loading several of which have been fixed in the 1.22 release candidate. I'd suggest you try it before you do anything else.
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-04-2009 14:50
From: leliel Mirihi He has an agp G5 and it is one of the most upgradeable macs around tho it is getting long in the tooth. For reference i have a dual 2GHz G5 with 4GB of ram and a 6800gt and it runs plenty fine using the 1.22.7 client. The video card is the most likely reason for the slow downs tho you shouldn't expect to much from the machine. As for upgrading your best bet is to...get a pc card and flash it with a hack'd rom. you can get a 9800pro/6800gt for almost nothing on ebay and have a fully working card. Or there are other cards you could flash that would be mostly functional such as the x800xt (no dvi). But the first thing you should do is ask yourself how long you plan on keeping this machine. Anyway google is your friend.
Edit: i just realized that you're probable using the 1.21 client which has a lot of bugs that cause slow texture loading several of which have been fixed in the 1.22 release candidate. I'd suggest you try it before you do anything else. Wow: comprehensive and the best advice here, I think! 1) Client: I have 1.21.6.99587, which is what they presently give you if you don't click the link for candidate releases. I am presently trying the previous advice to use Cool Viewer 1.19.0, and that shows a marginal difference so far. I guess I can try the candidate release which I'm in the process of downloading now. 2) Card: I never gave any thought to flashing a PC card with a hacked ROM, but now it might be worth it to me to start researching that. For example, I can locally get a X800 XL for $40, which might be totally a deal if I can flash it. Google *can* be my friend, but one needs to know what to look for. I've spent too much time at this point just trying to figure out what cards would actually go in a G5's AGP slot. So if you would be super-duper kind and suggest what kind of search strings for finding out how to do this, I might just drop the $40 on an experiment!
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-04-2009 15:38
From: Wolf Braham Wow: comprehensive and the best advice here, I think! I guess I can try the candidate release which I'm in the process of downloading now. By strange coincidence, the Cool Viewer crashed just now when I clicked a friend's name to IM, and so I brought up the Candidate Release. Wow. It rezzed the room I had been in so much faster, and I'm hopeful that this will be an adequate solution that saves me from trying to get an improved card.... ! However, I'm left with the same conundrum: the Lag meter still shows Red most of the time. Perhaps my experience will be better with 1.22, but maybe it still is indicated that I get a better card? Thanks! P.S. I will keep this machine at least 1 more year, but the idea of spending more than $75 on a card doesn't appeal to me.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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02-04-2009 15:50
Try the Mac version of Kirsten's S16 viewer, too. http://hyangreflections.blogspot.com/Scroll down the page for the download. You can tweak here and there but nothing is going to miracle a Radeon 9600 into an Nvidia 8800GT.
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leliel Mirihi
thread killer
Join date: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 129
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02-04-2009 16:45
Try lowering your draw distance, you can find it in preferences -> graphics then check the custom setting and it will be on the upper right, bring it down to the minimum of 64m.
And here is a list of all the cards i know of that you can flash & use in your G5, ordered best option to last but not necessary cheapest/fastest. Note that some of these cards would require hardware modifications (lower on the list). you can find roms here http://themacelite.wikidot.com/
6800gt/ultra 7800gs (a real one with a g70 core, bios 5.70.xx) 9800pro 128MB & 256MB fireglx 3 x800xt/xt pe 9800xt 9700pro 9800se 9700 non pro 6600 x850xt/xt pe
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Lee Ponzu
What Would Steve Do?
Join date: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,770
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02-05-2009 08:37
From: Wolf Braham Thanks! This gives slightly more information than the Lag Meter. For instance, fps is always lower than 15 or so, sometimes lounging around 8 or less. However, Bandwidth is harder for me to interpret. I see 30-40 mostly, with occasional bursts over 300 kbps. From: someone
8 to 15 fps is not bad. Merely average.
Did you ever mention your packet loss? It should be close to zero. If it is not, lower your max bandwidth.
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-06-2009 08:49
From: someone
8 to 15 fps is not bad. Merely average.
Did you ever mention your packet loss? It should be close to zero. If it is not, lower your max bandwidth.
Sometimes, I see less than 5 fps.... I see 0.0% for packet loss almost always. At times when I try to see what might overload the bandwidth, I see 1% for brief moments. But generally, 0% for packet loss. I'm back to sluggish performance, even with the Release Candidate. I guess having a completely empty cache might have made a difference, but that doesn't make intuitive sense to me.
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Missy Malaprop
♥Diaper Girl♥
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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02-06-2009 20:09
then what exactly is the problem? on an older machine with a card slightly better than that, at some busy areas 5 fps is something I was glad to get... are you expecting 30 fps or something?
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-07-2009 07:41
From: Missy Malaprop then what exactly is the problem? on an older machine with a card slightly better than that, at some busy areas 5 fps is something I was glad to get... are you expecting 30 fps or something? ??? I'm trying to diagnose the issue and then develop a plan of action: - Perpetually low fps, corresponding with slow rezzing (most frustratingly happening this morning when my camera could not be spun around fast enough to allow me to see the challenge-word so I could camp in a high-return spot, and another player swooped in) =>Upgraded video card (?) That's what I think the consensus here is. I came here not knowing what the causes were, and I think I leave here trying to find an inexpensive way to upgrade my card. Is that not right? Or are you saying that I need a whole new computer to get decent performance on Second Life?
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Missy Malaprop
♥Diaper Girl♥
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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02-07-2009 15:56
if you can get a card and hack the firmware so it works... then your G5 should have more life left in it... stick with PPC as long as you want.
I'm just saying with the video card you currently have... 5 fps isn't abnormal, or showing anything is wrong with your computer.... yes an upgrade could help if it'll work. I wouldn't still be sticking with a PPC computer, as many things I like to do cannot run on it no matter what (heck I even already replaced an intel Mac), but if you do want to stick with it, you can probably stretch it a bit longer with a faster video card, as long as you can find one that will work, and a firmware that'll work with it and it goes good for you.
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Bee Mizser
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 329
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02-08-2009 04:34
I have to be fair I have a Radeon card I would love to stick in my QuickSilver G4 as it would bring SL performance to an acceptable level, however I am hampered by one thing.
ADC.
I don't want to buy a new monitor (my Studio display is the crispest brightest monitor anyone could wish for), nor do I want to spend the extortionate amount Apple want to charge me for a DVI - ADC connector.
So if you have an ADC connector on your video card and are using an Apple display with ADC, be careful before upgrading your video card.
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Wolf Braham
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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02-09-2009 08:41
From: Bee Mizser I have to be fair I have a Radeon card I would love to stick in my QuickSilver G4 as it would bring SL performance to an acceptable level, however I am hampered by one thing.
ADC.
I don't want to buy a new monitor (my Studio display is the crispest brightest monitor anyone could wish for), nor do I want to spend the extortionate amount Apple want to charge me for a DVI - ADC connector.
So if you have an ADC connector on your video card and are using an Apple display with ADC, be careful before upgrading your video card. Thanks for the reminder, but I am pretty well equipped there. I bought my Cinema HD display when I had a G4, so I had to spring for the ADC to DVI connector then. The Radeon in my G5 has a DVI connector, so I was able to shelve the ADC to DVI connector. So my understanding is that DVI is the typical card interface now, and my guess is that whatever card I get (assuming I can find one) will have a DVI connector. But this does remind me to be sure about what ports are there.
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