How to actually code a better SL Mac client

Because It needs addressing I will use this thread to post my ideas on how to correct the Mac client for Second Life.
Currently the Mac software is in universal binary alpha phase. This means that it will also run on OS X Tiger 10.4 Powerpc. SO correcting it must be high priority.

Mac OS X uses "Objective Cocoa" and Apple anachronism for objective C a little used programming language unless you code for Mac OS X.

What the current released software does is it "calls" the GPU or video chip for vector rendering. It "calls" the Velocity engine in the powerpc on the cpu OR the intel core graphics for texture rendering.

That is the exact opposite of the way every other 3d program is written because the STRENGTH of the vector code is in the cpu NOT the gpu. Textures can be handled by the GPU thats what they are designed for.

SO the Mac client is written ass-backwards. It CAN be corrected or at least the Universal Binary version can be fixed as it isn't a major deal to do.

For every vector call it needs to be rewritten to take advantage of the cpu to write the vector instead of the gpu. That is a one line code fragment that can be added to the code while textures can have a code fragment rewritten taking advantage of the gpu. This is NOT written for GCC or Codewarrior it is specific to Mac OS X in objective C.

So in a nutshell this is how to correct the Mac client. It;s not that big a job, could be hammered out fairly quickly and needs to be addressed by Linden Labs......

ooo that's tellin'em eh ?

As a huge Cocoa fan as I am, (I do about 80% of my work in Cocoa) personally I can't think of a single reason why I'd use ObjC to write the core of a portable game engine. Horses for courses as they say. There are many many problems with the SL client and I'm sure we've all got our own solutions. Especially those of us who're also software developers. Personally I'd rather see the bugs fixed before they allow the team to continue adding more funky features.

....Objective C is what Mac OS X is required be coded in so there is NO recourse except what we already have which is unoptimized and we already know THAT is a failure. So there is no alternative really. Fixed? Yes I want it fixed the whole program is an unoptimized mess. It isn't going to get "fixed" unless it is coded the way it should be done.......and the biggest bug of all that needs correction is its SLOW....and yes it is tellin em thanks for realizing it. HAH!

Really though the main problem is that the vectors aren't handled by the velocity engine that needs to be recoded other than having the gpu call it. Having the velocity engine handle the textures is WRONG thats what the gpu should do.

I really think its done badly and a PORT of the windows client with vector calls added as an afterthought. Thus there never will be much of a Mac population on SL until it is fixed.

Vector calls to the velocity engine are alreadsy DONE in Apple's version of Objective C called Objective Cocoa. If you ever bother look at Apple guidelines it is what software for Mac OS X is supposed to be written in. Anything else will be a problem. As we already see with whatever Second Life Calls a "mac client"

mmm, when did you leave playschool ?


Cocoa is one of 4 or 5 major APIs for OS X applications, and for sure, it's the preferred application development framework. But to suggest OS X is written in ObjC is totally absurd to say the least. Darwin is Obj C ? I suggest you do some prerequisite reading on this matter before you troll again.

The only part of OS X SL touches or needs to touch is Darwin and OpenGL. Just what part of the SL client needs Cocoa apart from the top level packaging ? Are you suggesting LL add the runtime overhead of objective C to the SL core engine simply to use some of the built in vector processing ? Duh ?

LL will suspend you for personal attacks you keep it up. If they had written the software correctly it wouldn't need to be fixed got it get it? GOOD!

you're hilarious d'you know that ?

Mac OS X APPLICATIONS are supposed to be written in Objective C Objective Cocoa same difference young man. As for vector calls they haven't any to the cpu they have no idea how to write them (or they would have done) the software thus needs a rewrite and your post only confirms this FACT.

You have any answers just attacks well keep it up...good!!!!

Yes sweety, firstly look at my profile and then call me a young man again ...

Secondly my answer to you is go learn your subject.

My other answer to you is to suggest to write a real time game engine in Objective C gets you deservedly laughed out of the door in this company.

ObjC has it's place. It's place is NOT real time.

End of conversation afaic.

...and with nothing better to offer you deride others. WHATEVER your age is you are a young man as far as I am concerned........
........you have anything constructive to add to the conversation then DO IT. Otherwise every post digs you in deeper as an opponent and obstructionist to fixing the problems with the os x client.
How else do we write vector calls to the gpu than with Objective C?

Without vector calls to the velocity engine the Second Life Client is a joke. Well what a coincidence it already IS Svarog! LOL now who is being laughed at?

We need to offer a solution other than personal attacks. I'll be filing an abuse report against Svarog for offering nothing constructive soon and anyone else with any cute ideas will get authoritative attention too. This thread is about improving the code in the Mac OS X client so it actually rus at acceptable speed. So constructive help is what is needed and that is all.

We can count all of your personal attack too...

And .... Stop this damn spam/flood/troll/...

Is the original post not a personal attack on the LL Mac Programmers?

And why all the beating of the Mac Client dead horse? Look at it like this, YOU HAVE A MAC CLIENT. And rumor has it the Linux Client is ass in a box, err, in an executable. It could be worse. In fact what what I've read elsewhere there are no plans for bug fixes in 1.9.1, only new features (bugs). So it may be worse. Poking at them with a stick can't help.

No but bringing it to everyones attention that their software is crap AND warning people that it is only going to get worse will turn Mac and apparently now Unix users away. So Linden Labs will get hurt in the purse. Until they fix their software.

The real thing is all the egos out here all the self-important individuals with agendas like belittling others in order to make themselves seem important. Nothing I have said is an attack it is HONESTY and there IS a difference (whether you think so or not means nothing).

You all do nothing to contribute to the situation but aquiesce, or rather accept it-and complain if someone realizes how bad it is and how easy it is to fix it. I will succeed in my goals of dissuading users from using Second Life if thay cannot have any decent frame rates because the software is junk. Many people hate Linden Labs. This and other posts only convince me of just how much by allowing you people a place to vent and show just how angry you are. (thing is its misplaced agressing against my posts-you don't like something well it isn't MY fault)

Thing is I have not contributed to the REAL reason you are all angry. That is Linden Labs fault and they SURELY realize it now. My goal is thus attained. To point out to Linden Labs JUST how angry everyone is-even among those who grudgingly use their software.

Yes well I have pointed out how to fix the software on the Mac both in UB and PPC to simply recode it so that object vectors are called to the velocity engine in the cpu and texture calls written to the gpu. It isn't that hard to do. Too bad no one else realizes it. But egos are definitely in play-so honesty is impossible isn't it........

You all made it so easy ha!!!

I never had any issues with any of the Mac users on Second Life nor do I now. Not at all.

If any of us can dispassionatley look at the state of the Mac software we agree we are not happy with it.

We do however disagree on what will be done with it.

The majority of people think nothing will be done to improve it, and we should be happy with whatever we currently have.

But if anything at all is true the REAL truth is that we are anything but happy, and at best are despondent of any real improvement. We remain cynical at best.

It is and was not my intention to hurt any feelings and I hope that was not what happened because it was not my aim.

I am simply unahppy that many Mac users are unhappy as well. We aren't stupid we are not wrong either.

I hope Linden Labs will fix what needs adressing and I am done posting about this issue but that does not mean I am satisfied in any way at all rather the contrary is true.

Thank you.

Assuming the Mac programmers are Mac users, they would surely be well aware of the benefits of the Velocity Engine since it's been on the Mac's major strengths for video/graphic processing. However, the Intel Macs are not going to have it, as I understand it they'll just have standard FPUs? Unless the chip that'll be going in the PowerMac line has something similar to the Velocity Engine, all I know is that the PowerMac's are delayed till the next Duo chip version which will be faster (the current one is limited to 2.33ghz iirc).

Anyway, I'm for it if it's possible, but I suspect there's a good reason why we haven't got it yet, as I would have thought the Mac programmer would have done it by now.

it seems most OSX x86 things require a SSE3 enabled processor. SSE3 is a SIMD addition of instructions and such to the processor much like a velocity engine.

Christopher:

Although I do agree with you in the sense that the OSX client needs to improve, you're going about it ass-backwards-wrong.

This is a clear case of screaming at the waitress hoping to get better service. All it accomplishes is pissing people off, and possibly gets your food spat in.

Having worked in customer service for a good long time, I can tell you that I'm more likely to go out of my way to help someone who treats me with respect and kindness than I am for someone who sits and screams for service, and treats me like crap.

This tactic of scaring people away from using the Mac version of Second Life because it's not all that great is rather counterproductive to your goal. If less and less people end up using the Mac SL client, they may drop it altogether, and you'll be left feeling kind of foolish.

Anyway, being obnoxious and crass about it is no way to get an improvement, it's like the school bully who punches the smart kid in the face before asking him to do his homework. Totally counterproductive.

It's already been said in this thread, but be thankful there IS a mac client. I know I was when I registered.

As for your alligations of personal attacks, it strikes me as trolling. You post your "only" way that the LL "must" fix the SL client, someone posts with a possible correction/amendment, and you call it a "personal attack" and threaten to abuse report them. Remember, twisting words only fools the stupid, and there aren't a lot of stupid people that handle abuse reports. You can only cry wolf so many times.

CCC

<edit>Again, in my infinite wisdom, logged in as the wrong account, the above was posted by Clinton Oddfellow, Franchises is the money-handler for a business venture </edit>