Intel Macs...Macbook/MacMini

I was really considering "switching" to a mac for my regular computer (I do have an older 500mhz imac that someone else didn't want when they were upgrading and gave it to me, which i do use sometimes, but it's slow, small hard drive and hard to really compare to the PC esp since it can't run SL). I currently do use a windows PC for my SL and would like to make sure I can keep using SL (since I'm sure I would become a Premium member about the same time since I could actually see what I'm building, etc). Right now my computer is at minimum PC requirements and i most of the time only get about 5fps when moving and about 10-11fps when standing completely still with nothing else around. (that is with EVERY option turned off and every ability turned down to the lowest, and it still can lag and be only 1-3fps when alot of action is going on or a busy area.) Anyway, I wanted to replace my Pc with a Mac finally and was looking at getting a MacBook (not a Pro, I can't stop drooling over them since I saw them this morning) or a Mac Mini (Core Duo), but was looking at the site and it says that and of course Intel was the forth down. I tried sending a message to "Live Help" and all they said was "If that's what it says, then that's what works". And that's about it. I didn't even check and see if the Universal Build was stable or anything yet, I just wanted to find out if hardware wise it would work.

Does anyone have one of the Nice new Intel Mac Minis or MacBooks? (Yes I'm only looking at the two of them due to my limited budget, If I had a ton of money, I wouldn't mind getting an iMac or MacBook Pro). As it is, when I was noticing the specs and thought I remembered what the SL site said about that. I do not yet have the money for a new computer, but I wanted to get the information before I had to start looking for a different computer or make the decision to stop SL.

Just to mention, SL is the only game I play, I don't normally play any kind of Games on the PC, I do all of it on my Xbox (Not 360, like I said, I don't have that kind of money). My computer just is getting tired and crashing alot due to multiple computer issues including power supply, and motherboard issues. I mainly do things like music, a little video for my 5G iPod and the web, so other than making sure it runs SL, I don't need it to be the best gaming machine out there. And I mean run SL, not make it look "Life like", since almost anything would be better than what I have now.

I did see someone mention to try and take the Mac SL App Into an Apple store on a USB Thumb Drive and see if they would let me try it, and I was considering that too, but didn't want to do that until I actually had some money (who knows when that would be). Plus I wanted to get some Real Life Experiences with it, instead of the 5 min demo I would have to go with when testing it in a store.

Thanks so much, and if you would like, feel free to Message me in world if you have suggestions too. (or where I can get the money for a new Mac, since all of my income goes to Rent/Bills, etc. LOL I had to try!)

but the just-announced macbooks (not the 'pro' ones are intel graphics chips... not to mention, shared VRAM (which is bad). jury is still out on these new racecars...

but the macbook pros (just slightly older have a varying array of ati/nvidia cards, which (quote/unquote "should work just fine." test 'em before you buy 'em!

According to Apple's tech info:

Intel Core Duo Mac Mini : Intel GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory.

Nope. I wouldn't get that for SL.

First off, LL won't support Intel graphics chipsets.
Second, 64 MB SDRAM isn't enough to do any better than what you have now.
Third, that shared memory aspect will kill 3D performance stats.

I love Macs. I own 4 of them. For SL, I use, unfortunately, a pre-Intel Mac Mini, with just 32 MB video ram, and it really sucks for SL. But of the 4 I have, it's the only one new enough to run SL.

If I had to buy a new computer to play SL on, and if I was planning to spend about what a new Intel Mac Mini costs, I'd buy a Wintel PC and a good video card with at least 256 MB Video Ram. I hate Windows, but it would be a better system for playing SL. For $800 or so USD I could get a 3+ GHz Intel CPU Windows system, with over 1 GB RAM, a decent monitor, and a better video card.

Postscript: I have NOT tested the Intel Core Duo Mac mini with SL. There is another thread in this forum where people say that they have, and that it ran well, even with that Intel Graphics chipset. So I may be overly cautious...

I got one today as a new family computer. It isn't for full time SL use, but I gave it a try today and it wasn't bad. I roamed around a few spots to see how it did. I found it to be pretty good really, with frame rates generally from 8-10fps at areas like Waterhead. I went over to Bad Girls club, which is usually pretty slow, and it did drop to the 4fps range.

Overall though, it was better than I'd expected. There is an interesting benchmark here:

http://macintouch.com/#tips.2006.05.18

Otherwise the machine's a beaut.

-Bo

Ugh! While I'd love to hear some other reports, especially as I've read varying reports on other Intel Macs, those numbers are pretty low. Reports of the MacBook Pro are in the 15-70 fps range. The MB numbers are much closer to my PB G4 17" 1.33 than to the other Intels. *sigh* (More numbers please, folks!)

I have a dual 2ghz Powermac G5, and while I can't remember the exact video card, it's a decent one. I just bought a new Macbook and in my experience the MacBook beats my Powermac in most everything, including SL. SL's bottleneck is the network, not the graphics card when it comes to fps. Sure, a better card will be better, but the MacBook is just fine for SL.

Also, don't overlook the iMac. It's super fast and has an acceptible graphics card, plus a great screen.

Skip

I have a MacBook Pro 2GhZ 2GB ram, and my machine runs SL much faster than Bo Twang's I suspect he had the draw distance up too high....

for the difference of 200 dollars over the macbook, the imac might be the best choice. Dedicated x1600 video with 128meg ram, faster drive access, and a much much bigger screen then the 13" widescreen macbook. I run SL on a pre intel g4 ibook and a dual g5 powermac.......on the ibook, it's usable, but about 8fps at best, on the g5 it's more like 15fps....(slow area comparasion).....but reports on the new intel macs with the x1600 card is still 15-20fps, probably depending on how much memory you have in the system, etc.

I have the 2GHz Macbook with 512MB (plan to upgrade soon!).

With all the options turned off and a draw distance of 64 meters, I seem to be getting around 6-10 fps consistantly. I suspect that when I get more memory it will go a little smoother. But even then, I wouldn't consider using the Macbook for everyday SL playing. But if you're away from home and need your SL fix, it will suffice!

I bought an Intel Core Duo Mac back in February and have been playing SL without a hitch since March

I do have 1.5 gig of RAM and got the 2.0 chip - play seems fine. I've never tried it with a PC so I can't compare directly, but when I am having lag or display problems and ask around its always a common problem not localized to my Mac.

Haven't herad anything about Mac's and the new 1.10 though.

Jed

Are you guys testing using the 1.10 preview?
I'm looking at a MacBook, but I'll likely wait till the next revision when Apple will hopefully realise that offering black only the high-end is dumb because it means I won't buy one at all, rather than shell out more money

"I have the 2GHz Macbook with 512MB (plan to upgrade soon!)."

from wot ive heard that mens SL wil only be useing 256mb of yur ram as its coded to use just one of the duel cores.... or so ive read.

Im hpeing to get a Macbook with 2gb ram this weekend and will no doubt post my findings here.

no SL wont use half of your ram, not sure where you get that idea. Intel doesnt have RAm per processor like AMDs do becuase AMD puts the memory controlle rin the processor and each processor needs its own dedicated memory, but intels memory controllers are in the Chipset, and a single cource of memory can be used for all processors. there is pluses and minues of each way.

I have an Intel iMac with the 256 card and 1GB RAM. I was getting low fps with the Mac build but recently started using the Universal one. fps went from about 6-10 to around 40. Graphically it is better but I do have draw distance set to 64 and fog at 1.5. Very impressed with the Universal build though.

What are a ”universal one” -???

/Tina

I use an old iMac G4, you know the dome one. Tis a 1Ghz processor with 768 of Ram, not sure of the video spec but I have no problems with it. Granted not every detail is available, most of my settings are in the middle. But its very usable. Loads of these types of mac are on eBay for reasonable money. Might be worth considering.

a Universal Binary build for OSX means it will run on both PPC Macs and the new intel Macs. The old PPC only SL build running on intel macs was running with Roestta for processor emulation, which cuts its performance in third about.

Tks - Now I am with you..

/Tina

Just to say if you're buying a new machine PC or Mac, don't skimp on RAM. 512 Mb is not enough to even run a modern OS properly let alone applications like SL. Get at least 1 Gigabyte minimum when you are ordering the machine.

If you're ordering an Apple machine order it with a 1 Gigabyte module and get another 1Gig or more from a reputable 3rd party memory seller. NEVER buy extra memory from Apple, they charge almost 50% more to what you can buy it for elsewhere.

If you're ordering a Macbook Pro get a 7200rpm hard disk. The default 5200 rpm will slow you down even more especially when it's being continually used for virtual memory.

I would hazard a guess the low performance people are mentioning with Macbook Pros (which are worse than my 2yr old G4 powerbook) are because they don't have enough memory and it's hitting the hard disk hard for virtual memory, add to that the poor performance of the Apple OpenGL drivers. ( and it looks suspiciously like Apple have underclocked the graphics card on Macbooks too, probably for heat control ).

Memory memory memory you can't have enough on a Mac.


I've just ordered a 2gig Macbook Pro with a 7200rpm drive myself, this is mainly for my work but i will be using it in SL. I expect to see a far better performance than my old G4 powerbook which gave me anything from 5 to 25 FPS depending on location.


One more last thing, it's small but significant...
Upgrade to Tiger ( OS X 10.4.x ).
Tiger is the most efficient version of OS X with Apple's OpenGL implementation.