Direct Democracy is a Mess

Argh, I just spent an hour trying to sort through all the proposals in our fabulous new "direct democracy" window, trying to see if something like my proposal was already here.

And it's a mess! As some have already noted. It is not arranged alphabetically in sub-topics that are easy to find like "scripting" or "groups".

Here are the stats:

Num Proposals 354
Num Votes 20106
Num Voters 2551

354 proposals is an awfully lot of proposals. Most by-elections and national elections usually only attempt 2-4 such propositions because the electorate can't keep up with itall.

Here, a proposal to have heels come up off the ground is given equal space and airtime and votability as proposal to change the structure of group tools or increase the stipends to $1000.

I'm not for weighting the merit of a proposal in "democracies" but I am for trying to arrange them into topics. Like "Fashion" versus "Scripting" or "Group Tools" or something.

I'm having to conclude this direct democracy thing is a morass. It's hard to find stuff. The propositions are badly written and mispelled in many cases, and in many cases are duplicatory at least in part.

There aren't Linden comments on a single one. And I wonder why that system was even put in?

Yer funny Prok.

No, its not necessarily direct democracy that is a mess, but rather the unorganized system without categories and so forth which LL is currently using is a mess.

-Ghoti

I agree organizing the proposals into topics would be helpful. I think the 354 proposals and 2551 voters is evidence that the system is working. Organizing the proposals is necessary to keep it working.

I make it a point not to vote for proposals that are not well written, in the same way that I ignore forum posts that are poorly worded.

As far as Linden comments... I believe they are busy stabilizing the metaverse. They are hiring by the way, and an influx of developers will allow them to add new features and tackle our proposals.

Ummmmm...no. 2551 voters sounds like a lot, but there are 30,000 plus people here. So that's only 8 percent of the people. That's not direct democracy. That's rule by an informed, enlightened elite that reads the forums LOL.

Let's not confuse the two, and let's not claim we have a "direct democracy" in this tool, which we can now "turn over" our governance to as it is "impersonal" and "automatic". It's nothing of the kind LOL.



Ummmmm.....I disagree. Direct democracy that only gets the 700 or so forum regulars plus the 1500 more of their friends they've roped in to push this or that pet issue means direct democracy is a mess, yes.

could be a result of the fact that it's still only beta

Democracy is a form of government. The Lindens have given us an oppurtunity to tell them which features we want most. I wouldn't call it rule by forum elitists, I'd call it, feature requests from those who care.

Yes, it's common in these kinds of "silent coups" of sorts where people unwittingly give up their rights and freedoms that those who style themselves as the elite advance guard "above the masses" also style themselves as something that can later appeal to the indifferent or uninformed masses to cover up their elitist action -- seems like calling it "features requests from those who care" seems to about fit the bill.

It implies that all those "losers who didn't care" deserve their fate -- damn them.

Step one: make a beta test and call it direct democracy.
Step two: have some bright intellectuals on the forums call for direct democracy and explain this will bypass all kinds of evil player governments that are going to just repress people
Step three: tweak the beta tested thingie a bit more and get it working a bit better
Step four: get a little more involvement than 2000 but not 15000
Step five: perform three-card-monte like maneuvre and say "Walla, we have direct democracy working on our site with buy-in from a significant player base, everybody else fall into line!
Step six: watch how the rest of the people don't bother and remain indiffernt
Step seven: have the small advance ruling elite really run things!

That's how you make an autocracy with a democratic fig leaf! Works every time!

No, the URL was/is mentioned regularly in the message of the day. So not only forum people can vote.

Second, i'd rather have an informed person voting, than an uninformed (who doesn't care to be informed about things).

Third, I think the voting system sucks. I gave my 10 votes away, and now it's stuck. I can't vote no more, Lindens don't seem to progress much on freeing up votes by solving items, so what's the point?

Indeed. I agree with you to the extent that participation is less than it should be. Is it a matter of advertising? Could very well be. Other than the text on the loading screen, I do not know of a single in-world reference to the voting site. One good place would be in a newbie FAQ, but really, more than that is needed.

I don't know what the best system would be, but I believe my ideal system would be in-world voting by clicking a button like 'Events'. Top level, right up on the main screen. I don't know what the innards of the system would look like, but something like what is on the website would work.... but 'better'.

In lieu of a full-blown in-world voting system, a pop-up might do the trick. So long as one has votes remaining, when they log in they get a pop-up stating something like,
-----
"Linden Lab values the opinions of Secondlife's residents. Please take a moment to voice your vote on the proposals blahblahblah"

Three buttons:

( YOU HAVE X VOTES REMAINING. CLICK TO VOTE! )

( I WAIVE MY VOTES FOR THIS MONTH. )

( Ask me again at next login )
-----

Click to vote opens the web browser and goes to the vote page. Give people the right to not give a hoot and just waive all of their votes, but not forever. Give people the option to wait until next login, perhaps when they have more time to address the vote.

Something like that.

-Ghoti

You can reallocate your votes.

-Ghoti

/3/e4/48611/1.html#post516429

Seems like they were already on it.

Wow, this is a really great idea. I can see billboards advertising "Vote Prop Whatever" and caucasus forming and holding meetings. Sounds interesting. I've never seen it, but it would be great if there was some central marble-type building with the propositions available on notecards and you could even vote there on the spot, in world. No doubt party operatives from various factions would stand by with palmcards but the Lindens could put up signs "No electioneering 512 meters!"

ROFL.



Sounds very promising, yet the issue of voter education remains.

BTW, I do want to point before I become villified yet again that I started this thread not to somehow knock the efforts of the Lindens in making this feature, or people making propositions who laboured hard to draft and promote them. Nothing of the kind. They did an interesting thing. And I had no idea they were already at work fixing it, at least in part.

Rather, my criticism was *directly proportionate* to the other threads here taking it for granted that we can dispense with player government but go ahead and have "direct democracy". It's precisely because people are so facile about endorsing and calling for "direct democracy" that I want to take a magnifying glass to it as it manifests here.

It's too important just to form a fan club about it and not really look at whether it really does advance the real cause of direct democracy.

Welcome to Real World Democracy Prokofy! Sounds just like the real world too.

Briana Dawson

Yeah, there's a shockingly low percentage of people who vote in America, sure. The difference is that they can access voter education and a free media if they like, and we can't do that here to the extent you can in RL.

Actually, I would prefer not having to go to a central in-world location... it should be built into the interface.

-Ghoti

It isn't "direct democracy", silly. Its "feedback from users". A popularity contest.

Buster

Yes, it's a poll, a feedback mechanism. Good distinction. Not direct democracy -- yet anyway.

How would you set up voter education without representative government in a "direct democracy" in an electronic world like SL, Buster?

Why not educate people with events. "Play Tringo and vote for the future of SL" or something like that.

But seriously, perhaps an event, properly jazzed up to attract the non-forum types, would be a way to get the other 90% of SL out and voting. Just need to worry about things like "Vote for prop 38 and get 50L".

Um, I didn't "invent this phrase" lol. It was *already here* in other threads. In the thread called "wrong thread" with the usual pleas about no government, someone advocated having the "direct democracy" of the voting mechanism on this website. Others have waxed eloquent about a brilliant electronic future wherethere will be plugged in and able to express their opinion instantly.

I dunno, would this GIGAS-like terminals right on their properties or inside their inventories where they can vote instantly on everything and anything, whether heels should rise up off the simulated floor, or whether the teen grid should be merged with the adult grid and we should all get $1000 more in our pay packets. That's all. I simply echoed what others have already been writing about for months.

And if you google the phrase "direct democracy" you'll see any number of pundits sounding off about this idea, and typing it to the Radiant Future of cyberspace as well.



Geez, um, sounds like fun to do stuff like that. Sorry to disappoint, but I actually didn't invent the phrase here or in RL.



Whatever.

I'm going to try this, once the voter thingie looks more coherent with sub-categories so people can access it.

Most people find politics boring, however, and politicians flogging politicans even MORE boring.

You could use apolitical advertising.

I see no reason to interject an opinion on individual proposals in a 'get out the vote' campaign... ideally, everyone that would like to vote on proposals would be informed they have that option. Voting Yes or No on Proposition 523 isn't the concern, its the fact they are using thier votes (or not, if they choose to waive them).

...unless its really camouflage for getting votes for individual proposals one way or the other, in which case yer right.

-Ghoti