The Grand Government Experiment

I see LL as akin to the US Gov't. They sit up there, somewhat observing the masses, doing all kinds of stuff to try and make things better for the little people who they don't really know (like when the Senate votes themselves a pay raise? But anyhow).

The problem is, the US Gov't has three branches, each setup to check one another, make sure everything's staying in line. To further whittle down the comparison, LL is the executive branch, the so-called President who sets all the big plans in place. As for the Legislative branch, that could be considered to be the Voting System...but that's not the point I'm trying to make here.

And then, there's the Judicial branch. The people that hold the laws, that police the place and make sure everything is kept in order. That would be the abuse reports, the Live Help, etc etc. This would be all fine and dandy if there were people out there that cared. People out there that tried to fix the rules when we go filing abuse reports and talking to the Live Help/Liasons about a more immediate problem (and then being told to just file an abuse report even though the abuse report form says to contact a Liason if you need immediate assistance, like when someone's attacking a club).

Basically, SL has the rules. Only build on your land, no weapons in non-combat sims, no griefing others, etc etc. But until there's someone that enforces the rules, what's the point in having them there?

What scares me, too, is that unlike the US government, this is a Oligarchy. Meaning a small group of people running everything. The problem is, LL has full say over what happens; after all, it's their sim. They could shut it down tomorrow and we couldn't do a thing about it. We'd be out money, land, a whole *life* of stuff. And could we do anything about it? (Anyone know if the guy that sued LL over his in-game land ever won, or is it still going on? That'll say a lot over our in-game rights.)

Everyone talks about how SL is this big economy experiment. It's also a government experiment, whether they want it to be or not. And it's failing miserably, at least when it comes to enforcing the rules.

SL needs police. Given the nature of the place, it doesn't need much; no more than 5 people at a time on active duty. But they need to have the ability to enforce the rules, the tools and rights to do what needs to be done. If someone attacks a club, there should be someone who shows up there and doesn't just stand around, but actually is able to remove the person (yes, I realize a landowner is able to ban people. But a) sometimes the landowner's not there, and b) sometimes that's not enough.). If someone's at the Welcome Area or Sandbox doing stuff against the rules, anything as minor from selling junk to helpless newbies, to griefing people, to entrapping people and not letting them leave a tiny area without knowing a specific way out (be it a hidden doorway or sitting somewhere else or TPing out and not being able to use that area at all), there needs to be someone that can go there, say "you're breaking a rule, remove the offending property now", and take care of things. Sure, anyone can tell someone to remove it, but they have to have the authority to retaliate if they refuse.

Ok, I'm done. This may not all be accurate, and I'm not saying I'm 100% right about things. But I've seen what goes on in the Linden Sandboxes, I've seen what goes on at clubs and other popular spots, I've seen Lindens there when a crime is being committed just standing there and watching, then TPing away. I've seen it, and I know something needs to be done.

I'm more scared that the US Gov't IS being run like Linden Labs.

I like to think of LL as Gods in Mythical Ancient Greece. There are many, they manifest themselves at will, they have favorites and they are fallible. In fact, they're like people with God like powers. They are not and have no desire to be a government. Violations of the ToS "anger the gods", who may or may not strike you down. That's about it.

What we need is resident run Gov't. We have all the tools we need for binding enforcement and conflict resolution. We have enough for a working Judiciary. Let's pick up the shovels together and get it done ourselves. -Pel

As long as you don't try to govern me, we're cool.

I see the Lindens more as.... a business.. a company.. providing a service.

Much like someone might provide a web server service. Which means they get to make the rules on how you use the service, and if you stay in those rules everything is just hunky dory and you can feel free to make all kinds of nifty stuff on the service.

As for player run governments - well if some people want to get together and roleplay a government, thats fine and cool.... if you start trying to step out of that circle or group you'll find a lot of problems.

Firstly of course is that not everyone wishes to be governed, and certainly won't respect your government.

Secondly is that there are no tools (unlike what was mentioned above) to enforce anything. Make a step sideways and you'll find people pulling up stakes, teir, and content and going their merry way.

And of course when you apply the first, and the second, you really start to have fun

Imagine some fellow has a dispute, for instance, with me - maybe they don't like that I ejected them from my land or something... or that I returned or deleted something they put there... so they go to the 'government' and the 'government' comes to me for conflict resolution... and I tell them to sod off.

What then?

You go to 'court' and rule that I have to pay gentleman x 500 lindens... again.. I say 'sod off'.

Then what?

Anything you do past this point that impacts on my use of the service could well be ground for harrassment - you end up breaking the laws you want to suppliment...


Government in SL will only ever work as an 'opt in'

And even then - its dicey.

Exactly.

There are sometimes when the direct truth is more useful than a metaphor.

Siggy: It's only opt in. There's no possbility of ever forcing this on any resident who doesn't voluntarily opt-in. Even if player run gov't expanded rapidly, LL creates new empty land all the time. LL is a business, and as a very wise business decision they have no interest in governing beyond what keeps funds coming in, new customers coming in, and the RL police off their doorstep.

-All of this "the Lindens need to do XYZ" to more effectively govern simply won't happen. It's in no one's best interest for it to happen. We must be self-organzing and self-regulating. Naturally there are several types of player run gov't and people can join whatever fits.

Tools:
-We have tools, but we have to be creative to use them to form gov't and a judiciary. Here are a few:

1)Banning from island sims and mainland parcels, which is in effect ostracism.
2)Forfeiture of land and escrowed funds. You must "opt-in" for these to be present as tools.
3)Nota Bene notary service. You can't deny what you've signed.
4)Coming: group owned land and covenants.

Conflict Resolution:
If Siggy doesn't opt in, and have funds and/or land escrowed by the gov't/judicary in advance, there's *nothing* that can be done other than banning him. You must opt-in in advance. Otherwise, the gov't can sod off. By the same token, I won't do certain kinds of business with Siggy unless I trust him *and* he opts in so I have guarantees.

Here's a concrete example. The "trust me" problem. Why would I *ever* loan someone more than my "I don't care if it burns" amount of say, $L500? I treat it as panhandling. I might do it if I trust someone, but it's not easy to build trust in an avatar. It takes time to establish trust and reputation. Do you frequently lend your best friends more than $1,000USD? I don't because I have no redress unless we sign something I can take to court. At some point you can't afford the risk of getting burned without a guarantee.

If I'm, say, Kavai Conglomerate, and need to raise $L10,000,000 what guarantees can I give? Answer: None if Kavai doesn't have an independent judiciary with Kavai holding assets (probably land) in escrow with the governing body. This is not a dig at Kavai, which is an impressive org. It demonstrates the lack of infrastructure which enables these transactions.

Trust is not enough. If I walk into my RL bank and ask for a big loan, they want collateral. Even if my FICO is 800 and I've been there 25 years.

Leaving: It's very easy to pick up stakes and leave. That's a good thing as it fosters choice. That's a strength and a freedom, not a weakness. A disenchanted resident can easily emigrate. I wish it were that easy in RL. Not only that, there is a permanent "pioneering" option available to you while LL continues to create new land.

-So it's all good...and it's dicey. SL is dicey, I just tried explaining the ACS business model to my dad, an IBM veteran of 30 years. Even with the business week article it was next to impossible. It reminded me of explaining my ISP business to my grandfather 12 years ago. They furrow their brow while trying to wrap their heads around it. You almost can't explain it without metaphor. My grandad finally said, "do you make money?". Ie. Does it work? I guess that's the bottom line. We'll see...

There has weapons of mass lag! we must invade NOW.. we cannot stand these acts of aggression anymore!

no we dont

If you think griefing is bad now.... just wait until you appoint a government. LOL!

I forsee government officials being asssassinated right and left and governmental buildings under constant seige. LOL!

I haven't been on SL in a while, but I came back to see how things were. Wow.... how right you are. The "police forces" out there arn't really police or anything at all, but when they ***help*** people, the griefers will consider it griefing and report you. But then, nothing happens unless multiple griefers report you, so your pretty safe if you shoot a common guy, because one AR doesn't matter to LL anyways. But when that police force does nothing, then that "police group" is blammed for not helping out. SL needs "some REAL POLICE" around, not just the idiots that will try to get the title police just to go and then abuse it... right? Which happens too much here in RL. How will LL get around this problem?

PPPPFFFT. There are good people out there, but there are too many crazy dumb f*cks out there also. What ever shall we do!!

I guess my "we" doesn't include you. That's fine, you're obviously happy with the status quo. Others aren't.

I also see player-govt perhaps using taxpayer money to fund more griefers inorder to justify higher taxes and tighter controls on the people.

No, I don't think the US govt is doing this with terrorists; that would require a whole lot of people to keep the secret, and if even one of these people had even a little bit of a conscience, that secret would get out. In SL, fewer people would have to know.

Another serious problem with player-govt is voter-fraud. We're playing with real money in SL, so don't think a global SL govt wouldn't be a juicy target. What's more, all the voting here is electronic, with no paper trail.

Say we have a global SL govt, and we have this fair constitution with all sorts of fine checks and Bill of Rights. I'm a power-hungry politician who wants to do away with all of that and institute my own rule, what do I do? Well I just hire a few skilled hacker-friends to manipulate the voting to get me into office, then use them to manipulate the Amendment process to do away with those pesky checks and balances, making me and my buddies the rulers of this world, and the recipients of all that tax-money.
Since we'd have gained independence from LL interference (as some are calling for) they would be unable to help.

Global SL govt would add complexity and new problems, while not fixing those we have now.

The main flaw with any player-run government is that there are lindens overseeing everything and therefore will not let a player government enforce its own rules by punishment. (not that I wish to imply that I have anything against that)

Now, imagine that all lindens went AFK forever and the mainland was given entirely to the players. Abuse reports would not be answered or acted upon. What would happen then? The first thing I can forsee happening is the formation of power groups, gangs, mobs. With guns, obviously. Power in numbers would rule the mainland. Eventually states and governments would evolve to bring order. Those who live under a good government would have nothing to fear, and those who live under a corrupt government would have to pretend they have nothing to fear. And so fourth, following closely to the evolution of human governments...

And there is a chance Linden Labs would try that for science, they are "Labs" after all.

The main flaw with any player-run government is the players running the government. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any group of players placed in power-over other players will become corrupt.

If you want to live under a player-run government, then move to a sim like Neualtenberg or Caledon (the better of the two IMO) and keep your police force among those willing to be ruled by such a group.

Don't Tread On Me!

-Ghoti

It's not like the Lindens are uncorruptable, from what I heard. But no matter which way the government turns, the players will adapt.

I would just like to clarify that Neualtenburg is an Artist's Collective located on the maingrid in the Funadama, and is an anti-government --pro-people initiative.

The player-run Government you mention is now called "Neufreistadt" and is no longer associated even marginally with the Neualtenburg Projekt.

I would rather have paid employees who can be held accountable to the company for any misdeeds rather than players who can not be held accountable.

Please cite an example of Lindens being corrupted, since you've 'heard' something.

If grid-wide player-run government were to be implimented, you would see many players 'adapting' by closing their accounts and moving on.

-Ghoti

Oh! My bad! I'm glad that's been decided, then. Yes, I was refering to the 'Neufreistadt' (damn can't you people come up with easier names?!?) in my previous post.

-Ghoti

Just say "Burgers" (us) and "Fries" (them).

Here's how 'governmental' we really are.



Tenants+family+friends now number in the hundreds (120ish are paying tenants). Over five months and now six sims, and I've never asked anyone to leave.

Nobody has ever irked me enough over anything to even contemplate it.

Caledon simply just doesn't attract that sort, I guess?




Sometimes I go around as a tiny brown rabbit (like Peter Rabbit, mmm? ).

Munching a carrot I look out across the antique homes, the victorian gardens; I see people riding the tram, exploring, shopping for clothes.

Everyone pretty much 'gets it' without extra governance sauce.




postscript: Welcome to Caledon, Kendra

Which is why I cite Caledon as an example of a good player-run government (as far as I've seen).

It should also be noted that the people that live/work/play there are governed because they choose to be.

I am not at all opposed to all player-run government. What I rail against is imposition of government over all residents, even those that do not choose to be a part of it.

-Ghoti

Yeah, that would bug me, too. I doubt anyone could successfully pull it off, though.

I heard on There.com they were thinking of in-world resident moderators; that's about as close as I've ever heard of such a thing. Rather like the forum moderators here perhaps.

Don't know if they actually did it or not.