i was thinking about ways to create a cooperating new continent, something a bit more interesting than plain rental like anshechung.com and the others
okay lets say a group of estate owners want to join forces in creating a new continent, something different, usually what will happend is that one or more get bored/angry and decide to resell sim/ detach it from the landmass and so on
here is my little idea...
- at the estate level, you have the king:
the king is basically the account that hold the payment of all the sims of the continent, he has full powers on the continent, he is perceiving taxes wich he will use to cover the tiers and build a reserve wich can then be used for getting new sims and as security net.
- at the sim level, you have the dukes, the dukes are choosen by the king, their task is to manage the sim that they are in charge of and pay to the king the taxes every months.
the duke is quite free in the way he collect the taxes, from his own pocket or by renting land.
the chain of command can have more levels, like someone in charge of controlling a group of dukes if there are projects like creation of cross sims villages or a commercial zone.
if a duke fail to pay the king in time, the king can decide to revoke his rights on the said sim and choose a new duke to manage the said sim. If the treasury can't afford a sim running without producing income, the king can decide to cancell it (or cancel another sim if removing the said one would break the unicity of the continent)
basically for a duke its like owning a private sim, at the difference he hasn't to pay the upfront cost and that he can't decide to pull it out of the continent (so the continent integrity is preserved)
any comments? suggestions?
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could an enlighted monarchy be the solution? |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-08-2006 22:30
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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07-08-2006 22:59
To be "the solution" there has to be a problem, and the solution has to both adress and fix that problem.
Not seeing it here. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Traxx Hathor
Architect
Join date: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 422
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07-08-2006 23:53
Reitsuki, the problem seems to be finding a stable long-term method of cooperation for people involved in building a new continent. (if I understand Kyrah's post correctly). That sort of thing is always interesting, particularly if it's a group trying to self organize and achieve a goal, not just the usual commercial rental business.
The stumbling block for me is esthetics. I'm happy visiting all sorts of sims with mixed styles, but I wouldn't want that 'mixed' look for a subcontinent in which I had a financial stake. Covenants are good for preventing obvious problems such as building to the lot line, and a theme can point people in a certain direction. However the end result is likely to be a mix of individual preferences, rather than the powerful sense of place evident in professionally designed game worlds. _____________________
---> arcane city rising from the wildernessas photographed by Shack Dougall
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-09-2006 00:57
Really, you can run multiple sims single-handedly kinda easy, once they are up and going. So maybe an estate manager has ten or 25 sims to worry about.
One critical flaw that I can see, but only one. The big deal is that the people who rent will know the estate manager better than the sim owner. So if they like him/her, guess where their loyalties will lie when a good estate manager branches out and starts their own sim. Estate managers have to be people you trust implicitly, people who would never cheat you in a million years. Anything less and you got trouble. _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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Salzie Sachertorte
Wandering About
Join date: 1 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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Queen for a Day
07-09-2006 07:19
I would think that as King - or Queen - you would really have to trust your dukes and duchess; their fiscal integrity, their commitment to your project, and, most importantly, their management style and skills.
What if they decide to leave and take the month's tier with them? Or turn out to be somewhat lackadaisical in their management of the sim so you, as King, don't know what's going on within the sim and are faced with the complaints of subjects you really don't know? What if they just disappear and you are left trying to find them, a new duke and figure who your subjects are and if they have paid their rent? What if the Duke and the subjects have a dispute and demand to speak at the King's Court? Will you rule against your Duke, the person who manages your sim, even if its clear he is at fault? Are you willing to run a hands-on workshop in sim management, only to have your students graduating to found their own rival sims? As Desmond said, once your sim is set up, it is easy to run if you have good, scalable management systems in place to handle communications, payments, land records, etc. The thing which takes time is covenant enforcement and handling griefers. What if you are wrong in your own perception of your benevolence - what if your subjects perceive you as a tyrant and overthrow you? That is, your disloyal subjects bolt for their own sim? Of course, the sims would still be yours, but suddenly you are facing a huge tier payment and no subjects to tax. edited as correct spelling counts |
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Pelanor Eldrich
Let's make a deal...
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 267
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Yes, it's one solution...
07-09-2006 16:24
Enlightened Monarchy, similar to Caledon, is one possible solution. A few notes on the differences between political organization of RL vs. SL:
1)The Lindens are in effect the ancient Greek gods of mythology. They have the power to manifest themselves, to create and destroy the world, and they are every bit as fallible as regular people. 2)The Sim owner, for islands, is the absolute dictator with terraforming power and so the gov't structure must take this into account. This would likely be the source of power of the dictator or King. I'm not sure how the new group/estate tools could change this equation. Any thoughts? 3)The ability to create multiple avatars must be taken into account. My personal belief is to consider a single avatar a single subject or citizen. Other approaches include RL verification or use of the new LL tools to create "classes" of citizens based on payment verification. Enlightened monarchy/feudalism, representative democracy as well as basic dictatorship has been tried and works. The reason more despotic rule hasn't worked is the simple freedom of citizens to leave. |
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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07-09-2006 18:01
Exceprted without permission from the entrance to Caledon because I was really impressed with the benevolent autocracy that someone can create:
Welcome to the Independent State of Caledon! Disclaimer: I have no connection with Caledon or any related anything. Indeed, I'd like to have a connection with Caledon but am of the belief that it is at full occupancy. Caledon is a 19th century themed nation-state. Visitor's Introduction: Caledon is a small, windswept forested country at a temperate latitude. Wild creatures, country estate life, sights and sounds that were common well over 100 years ago are the hallmark of the land. - 19th century period clothing, politeness, and activities are smiled upon, but "just being yourself" is more than good enough. - Above 512m altitude, the theme is relaxed, and pretty much anything goes. Except annoying folks, lagging the sim, and such as that. - Though it is a "Mature" rated sim, common decency and classy behaviour are expected and required in public areas. Have a great time! THEME: Victorian homes, castles, country estates: Good. Modern Homes, Glass Skyscrapers, Spaceports: Not below 512m altitude. Horse, carriage: Good. Wolf Clan MadCat BattleMech: Not below 512m altitude. 19th century candy shop: Good. Furniture-Land Yard Sale!: Not below 512m altitude. Duck hunting with shotgun: Good. Alien nuking with Rad-Kewl 5000 uber-weapon: Not below 512m altitude. Wood Stove and Ice Box: Good. Modern Kitchen and TV: If inside and nobody really sees it, it's ok. Forested or otherwise vegetated land: Good. Gigantic first life political signs: Even above 512m altitude, this isn't cool. GOVERNMENT: Monarchy / Aristocratic Landed Gentry. Rather than make a bunch of "democratic" rules that will break down at the first difference of opinion, I think honesty serves best. I own the sim, but over the long haul the landholders allow me to keep it. Obviously, I'm going to be as nice as possible. I have 195 reasons a month to be nice! So if all the landholders get together and want snow on the ground, you better believe I'm going to make it snowy, even if I hate snow. On the other hand, I am a man of principle. If I see any majority group acting overtly mean to one or two other land owners, sooner or later I'll step in. No "Lord of the Flies" on my island. I'd rather lose the sim than be a haven for that. I believe in tolerance. Remember, I am no Solomon. I promise a good faith effort to be fair, but I am human. My only qualification was to raise the downpayment for the sim, so please, bear with me. And last, a question. What is more pathetic than to set oneself up as ruler of a fake kingdom? Not much! I don't desire it. So what I may well do, if everyone agrees, is let various residents try being Steward of Caledon. Answering questions, resolving disputes. Mostly it would give me a break from it. It's more of a "cruise director" kind of role anyway. If anything gets really serious I'm still available. But if the reaction is very positive, every landholder, no matter how humble the holdings will get a chance to be the Steward of Caledon for a little bit. LAND: 1) NO REFUNDS. 2) NO REFUNDS. In case you missed it. Realise that I don't get tier refunds. 3) No favouritism. If I allow one resident to get a break, why not the rest? Computers break, Second Life goes down, the internet goes down, jobs are lost, people get sick. But the brutal fact is this: I get no respite from the 195 USD a month tier. If you want insurance to keep your landholding, pay for extra weeks in advance. If you have ceased to pay for holding a plot of land, expect your land to be available to anyone else the instant the plot is overdue. Period. No matter how much I like you, I'll reclaim the land and pass it to the next person who began to pay for it. Not because I want to, but because it is the fairest way. It may break my heart to do it, but I believe in fairness first. I can't have people skipping payments, putting the sim at financial risk and then squabbling over unequal treatment because I tried to be nice. I make no promises about the state of the sim, lag, availability or any of that. I am at the mercy of all of that too. If my sim fills up, I won't prevent landholders from charging to transfer rights. HOWEVER: If you blatantly try to rent portions of Caledon as part of a business strategy, I shall refuse service and reclaim the land. Caledon is primarily for the enjoyment of residents, NOT land speculation. Do NOT reserve parcels simply to gouge others. I won't allow it. 5) Once holding land you can join the Caledon group, or may have the land deeded to your group. Yes, that means you can ban individuals from your land, control the music and video streams, and a lot more. Just contact me and I'll set you up. Make sure you have a group towards which land can be deeded. No, I won't be a member of your group, just find two friends to help you. They cannot 'steal' your landholding because it's my sim and I can reverse any transfer. THEME RULES FOR LANDHOLDERS NOTE: There are some minor additional requirements for Caledon Highlands - but everything listed here is the general set. Ok, so you hold a fine plot of land in Caledon. What can you do with it? A quick note about textures. Textures induce lag! Keep your textures to a minimum, and 512x512 or smaller. A few rare exceptions are ok. Questions? Confusion? Ask me, ask anyone, we will be glad to help. Nobody wants a laggy sim. It's not good to paste huge images on prims and leave them out, everyone suffers. Remember, everyone is paying to be in a themed sim. Below 512m altitude, the following applies: Please, have a 19th century themed residence, parkland, field, or other theme-consistent sort of thing at ground level. Not a modern high rise. You will be asked to remove anything really out of place. Castles and such are fine. The theme is vaguely European but so long as what you have generally fits the time period (or older) you are ok. Inside your residence, do as you like, decorate as you like, it's your house. Just don't let modern stuff be glaringly obvious from the outside. A glimpse of a TV through a window is no big deal. No attack helicopters left out on the lawn 24/7. Please, stick to the general foliage and vegetation trends. Don't strip the land completely bare, don't smack a stand of palm trees in the middle of an old growth temperate forest. We are all stewards of the forest. If you want a cement palace, there are other sims. Don't build right on the property line. It's nasty to face walls. If someone plants a large tree that overhangs your property when it's standing vertically, your house should not touch it. Regarding overhanging plants in general... please be as relaxed as you can about this, but if a neighbour's tree or plant is really bothering you, yes, the neighbour should move it. Obey the laws of physics for the most part near the ground. No floating houses, upside down trees or that sort of thing. Don't have a home in construction for three months, because you left the country or whatever. It is an eyesore and people are paying for a themed sim. A couple of weeks: fine. Or build it above 512m and move it down (many of us can explain how to do that). Don't ask to cut out an 'island' for yourself. We have all seen sims that look like people built homes on shallow sandbars out to sea. Enough said. This is Caledon; there are other sims where you can be totally isolated like that. Don't block waterways or paths by setting up security of any kind. If you feel you MUST have security on, subdivide your plot to allow path or water right-of-way at the far edges, and only turn on security where you need it. Do not ban everyone from your land 24/7. This makes for an awful sim and generally marks you as a newbie. Because anyone using their camera control or sitting on a prim can cut right through it anyway. Please don't use push-script security systems. I'm asking nicely. Not so much because I don't like it, but because you can get in trouble with Linden Labs for it. Feel free to ban any individual you choose from your plot, but no banning of the entire public or the sim owner. Bans don't really keep anyone out and chop up the sim terribly, devaluing it for all. Shops are allowed, within limits. - no shop sign over 8m square (8m x 1m, or 4m x 2m &c) and it has to fit in a 19th century environment. - no other signs outside. - don't sell stuff outside unless it's a plant, or a house or gazebo or other outside thing. - no 'yard sales' (except maybe plants, animals, that sort of thing) - inside, pretty much anything is ok No Big Ugly Signs. - no matter what is on them. No Casinos. - If you want to play cards with your friends, fine. Beyond that... no. No Camping Chairs or such. - Any avatar left logged in 24/7 for more than a day or two will get banned. No First Life religion or politics. Save that for somewhere else. No Scamming. - If anyone is caught plainly scamming, such as setting up Ponzi schemes, 'fixed' raffles, or that sort of thing, they will be banned. No Clubs. - Gathering places are ok. A modest pub is fine, but let me put it this way: a really successful club won't fly here. I don't know the exact number of patrons that would really annoy the other residents. I expect a few complaints about anything and everything. But if I see a real problem, I won't sacrifice a 1250 USD investment and the happiness of other paying residents so someone can have a club. You CAN have big events. We encourage them! Try to keep it to once or twice a month maximum. Live music, fashion shows, pub gatherings... every once in a while, it's fun. If the other residents can't get to their homes because the sim is full, or suffer terrible lag, listen to them and try to arrange times that are satisfactory. If people won't do this on their own, I'll make rules and that will be less flexible. Skyboxes and such are fine, but please keep them over 512m. Hunting and wildlife: You may see and hear duck, turkey, or other creatures. They may wander on and off your land. You may see other residents hunting them and hear the sound of shotguns. Remember, it's the 19th century here! This is allowed and expected. If someone is constantly and repeatedly being annoying with the hunting, let them know and try to work something out. If a problem persists, they may get banned. Above 512m pretty much anything goes! Other than bothering your neighbours, lagging the sim, or doing anything unlawful. I don't care if people role play, their business is their own. I don't care if anyone is a furry or a vampire or a goth, or a Gorean or what-have-you. Celebrate your culture. But if I see anyone passing around dirty pictures of children or anything like that, they are getting banned in a New York minute and reported without any warning. Remember, the tools I have for controlling the sim are very clumsy. If there is some disgusting obscenity left outside on your group land, I can't remove it without reclaiming your group land. Even if you didn't put it there and just happen to be away on vacation or something. You really do have more control than I do, unless I take drastic measures. Use autoreturn, and leave a method for getting in touch with you in your profile if you go away for a while. About the 'fine print': If we end up having to rely on fine print word by word, we have already lost. If I forgot to write something down here, like "don't leave junk all over someone's land" - just because it isn't written down doesn't make it ok. Please use common sense. I try to see the positive. If someone is breaking the rules for a day or two, cut them some slack. The sim is supposed to be positive and fun. Hostility should not be returned in kind. If there is an issue between two people (or me), please try to be civil. Even if it is a clearly hostile visitor to the sim. If someone is causing you unstoppable grief, ban them from your land, use the mute tools. Then let me know. The light of a new day can put things into perspective. If you end up with Stewardship of the sim for a while: Please, be gracious and kind. That will be its own best reward, and will pay itself back in a hundred little ways. Warm Regards, - Desmond Shang Please note: I have been a bit strident about certain things in this document, and for most people I realise this is utterly unnecessary. My firmness is simply to ensure that scammers, troublemakers and the like get the message *before* becoming your neighbour! Which solves an entire host of problems for everyone.  |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-10-2006 12:30
Wah, that's it all right - and heh, I'd never dare to have posted that myself!
First because it would seem too much like an ad if I did, and second, because my writeup isn't all that good.  Glad you like it... *shy* _____________________
Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
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07-10-2006 19:33
Don't you just want to pinch his cheeks?
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