CRITICAL: Older objects being returned when parcel is full - WITHOUT appropriate perm

Last night we had an incident that has me very worried. Objects were being returned from a rented parcel, because "the parcel is full". Objects that the renter should have had NO way to return!

Here's what appears to have happened.

We have several parcels on a private sim that have pre-built, pre-landscaped homes on them. Landscaping items, like trees, are deeded to a group that the renter is NOT part of. The house and rental management box are owned by the sim owner. A 512 M2 parcel might have 70 prims or so used by existing content, leaving 47 or so for the renter to be able to use.

A newbie rented one of these parcels a few days ago. Renting - not buying, so he should not have ownership of the pre-existing content, like the rental management box, the house, or the landscaping. {EDIT} Apparently the Noob *did* buy the land itself, but not the items on the land. {/EDIT}

He started rezzing stuff, and exceeded his parcel limit with his attempt. {EDIT} Apparently, he was rezzing something very complex - a pirate ship.{/EDIT}

Now, what *SHOULD* happen is that he should be told he can't rez the last item, because the parcel is full.

What apparently *DID* happen is that OLDER CONTENT THAT HE DOES NOT OWN got returned from the parcel, to make room for his new junk! The sim owner got the rental box returned to him, and I got several objects returned to me that were deeded to the landscaping group.

The message I got when the items were returned indicated the name of the renter and the location of the parcel, and that the renter had returned these items to me "because the parcel is full".

WTF???

Since WHEN does newly rezzed content take priority over older content THAT YOU DON"T EVEN OWN!

At lunch today I will do a controlled test, with myself and an alt that I KNOW has no special rights in that sim. I'll report the results here, and file a bug report in-world if I can replicate this disaster.

Test results:

I went to the sim and subdivided a small parcel, and had the sim owner set it for sale. The parcel had three trees on it, set to the land group, and the trees were not transferred with the sale of the land to one of my employees.

My empolyee rezzed prims until he was within 2 prims of the parcel limit.

I then had him try to drag-copy 3 prims. This failed, which it should have, and it did NOT return one of the trees.

I had him try to drag a block of prims from inventory onto the parcel. This also failed, which is the expected behavior.

The sim owner says the only thing he can think of was that the noobie was trying to rez a very large and complex object - a pirate ship - and that he may have massively exceeded the available prim count.

So... I was unable to replicate the problem. Yet on two seperate occasions, something this new Player did caused content that he did not own to be returned, with that strange message that indicated it was because the parcel was full.

The message the sim owner and I got was NOT the usual one that simply says the resident returned items. Not the one that you get when someone uses the 'return' pie menu choice that is available to a land owner.

Did you try rezzing something outside the parcel when it is full then moving it into the parcel?

No, that is one test I did not try. We tried what was stated above - adding prins by drag-copy or from inventory. In both cases, the new land owner was told there were not enough prims, even if he only was one prim too high, and the three trees that he did not own stayed put.

It's possible that Linden Plants are immune to the effect, I didn't think to have any normal prims already on the parcel, as was the case for the home on the newbie's parcel. I know one retuened iten was the sim owner''s rental management box. I don't yet know what the 4 items returned to me were.

It's been happening to me in Kojin for a LONG time. I thought it was something buggy with a piece of property Schwans and I work on. Many times I've had old objects returned while Schwans has the permissions set to no build. Invariably something happens over there and I get hit with a "returned object" because the parcel is filled.

If you find out what is causing this, let me know! I chalked it up to the sim being haunted.

I may have found the problem! At least I am sure I found the trigger!

The new resident was trying, on a fairly small parcel, to rez a full sized pirate brigantine! This is the most complex vehicle I have seen so far in SL - 27 prims PLUS a 250 prim 'attachment' for the rest of the sails, guns, etc. .

He could rez the boat fine if he was fairly far from shore - on water that was sim-owned. There, he has a prim allocation that still has thousands of prims free.

But if he rezzed it on water close to shore, within his own parcel boundries, the ship falls apart and his house gets returned.

I went with him and bought one of these monster boats, just to test it.

I suspect what is happening is that rezzing the boat triggers a script that self-rezzes the 'attachment'. Since you are not yet *on* the boat, the 250 prim 'attachment' counts against parcel prim counts. Since the script is rezzing a LOT of parts and is greatly exceeding the parcel limits, it is hitting the 'Grey Goo Fence' limits, and part of the ship fails to rez. But the grey goo fence is ALSO thinking it still needs to delete more prims, and poof! There goes his house!

So... I need to test this carefully, and will probably need Cube Linden or Milo Linden or one of the other staff bug hunters to assist me - someone who can watch what is happening, and can detect if my hypothesis is right.

Your bug report regarding Bug: E:421 P:1 O:M V1.12.1.13 (Nohona Isle)[Missing Content] "Rezzing or disembarking from vehicle wipes parcel content" has been received, and assigned an ID of [rt.lindenlab.com #430476].

The... uhm... "noob" bought the land in question, if I understand it right, but the house is still yours - prims placed by you and not owned by him?
In that case everything is working as it should. When I buy land, the prims which are still owned by the previous owner will get returned when I exceed my prim limit. Why should it return the prims of the current land owner instead? It always starts with the stuff owned by others. If the new owner would enable autoreturn, the whole house would be returned to you.

Why?

Look, the whole way prim limits are enforced right now is totally screwed up.

When an operation would put you over the prim limit, that operation should not be allowed to happen, and you should be notified and an error should be returned from the llRezObject call.

What it currently seems to do is actually rez the object, *then* start trying to figure out what to do about it.

That's like having your computer delete files when you fill your disk. It doesn't matter if they're your files, system files, or downloads. Nobody would accept that for an instant. Why do people defend Linden Labs for doing something as insane?

Exactly, who's to say that the objects being removed aren't wanted? They're on the land, so surely they're meant to be? If not the owner can remove them, THEN try the operation. What if all the objects ARE owned by the same person, will it still chuck some to make room?

I didn't know it was supposed to work differently. When I bought my first land some months ago, I read some FAQs which said if the prim limits were exceeded, it would return objects owned by others. Same as the autoreturn function does. I assumed to keep anything owned by someone else permanently on your land, with autoreturn enabled, you'd need group land and group owned prims.

EDit sorry
Posted in wrong thread...

Not true, all you need to do is set an object to that group for it to remain (with autoreturn).
But I am still agreeing that if a parcel is full, or near full, and something is rezzed, moved in or whatever that would push it over the limit, it should NOT allow it. It simply shouldn't have to delete anything at all in the first place, so wherever the code is that works out what to remove, they just need to put an error instead and get rid of the new object (which shouldn't even be there).

There are situations where that makes sense, for example when part of the land is sold and so the prim limits are reduced without any specific object being responsible for the change. But I'm not talking about that... I'm talking about the situation where a specific object is responsible for the prim limit being exceeded. Having ANY other object than the one responsible for the problem being returned is a horrible idea. It may be how it's designed to work, but if so the design is broken.