Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

It's my fault.

Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
02-07-2006 21:36
So, I just realized; I probably had at least a small hand in the latest Linden land experiment, giving land barons total control over the sim creation process. Behold, a long and winding email sent to Robin Linden on January 27th, 2005.

----

Second life has traditionally been a world of laissez-faire property
rights; that is, I can't meddle on your land, and you can't meddle on
mine. Due to the linden's jurisprudence in trying to make SL a
platform for a 21st century information age, they have taken a
decidedly low-key approach to all things social and economic. Aside
from the occasional tweak here and there, they are mostly silent.

And yet, they also do the occasional experiment; in land/prim
allocations (in Olive in version 1.1, in the Nova Albion Sims, etc.),
in social structure (allowing for Themed communities prior to 1.2),
and in economic ideas (removing all event support). These are all
done, I think, to "push" us as a loosely-combined community towards
bigger, better, and hopefully more organized things.

SL as it stands now, from a planning perspective, is an unmitigated
disaster. It is urban sprawl to the max. Houses are next to factories.
Factories are across the street from clubs. Clubs are adjacent to
business towers. Business towers are leering over beach resorts. And
so on and so forth.

This isn't necessarily a Bad Thing(tm), mind you; a hands-off approach
gives you the maximum freedom allowed in an environment. However,
there are times when having a community of like-minded individuals, or
at least a proper agreed-upon guideline to work with, is prudent.

The Lindens have from time to time tried pushing us towards ways to
make our little corners of the world a little "better"; themed
communities, zoning restrictions (boardman, de haro), community
support/recognition of hard work (Luskwood, Darkwood, NeoTokyo when it
was around, etc.), limited infrastructure development (roads,
telehubs).

They always do it half-way, though. They take our hand and guide us
into the toy room, but then want us to explore with the toys
ourselves.

As SL gets bigger, sheer socieital pressure within the world will
require more and more planning and organization. It will either happen
from the top-down (the lindens institute a player government (not
bloody likely) ), or from the bottom-up (N-burg, Luskwood, Darkwood,
Taber, etc.).

And now that I've gotten that rambling diatribe out of the way, let's
get to the meat of my discussion and ideas.

It is widely a held assumption that the auctions are the playground of
the hardcore land resellers; these folks come in, buy gigantic tracts
of land, mark them up for a few percent, and sell them off. Usually
little thought, planning, or foresight is taken with these purchases;
they are bought, combined, reparcelled off into smaller chunks, and
sold.

What I would like to see is the following. It requires the cooperation
between the Lindens, the wholesale land buyers, and eventually the end
consumer (land purchasers).

1) Linden Lab puts up entire sims for sale. Gigantic, one-plot Sims
with no development on it; no roads or bridges, perhaps a telehub in
the center.

2) A land wholesaler (someone who's main intention is to buy the land
and resell it) bids and wins the plot.

(so far so good, this happens all the time...)

3) The wholesaler either then takes the Sim and plans it out properly,
or hires someone else to do it (regional planners, for instance). This
includes road access, telehub access, basic infrastructure, and most
importantly, proper Public Space (open areas between buildings).
Public space would mean, in my mind, places for everyone to enjoy.
This could include flower gardens, fountains, ampitheatres, meeting
places, shpping stalls, and so on. A master plan is devised with the
wholesaler and the planner for the entire Sim.

4) The wholesaler and planner parcel off the remaining land into
sizable, useful chunks; the "fronts" of lots face the roadways, for
instance. Interesting geographic features are properly lotted off so
half a hill isn't on one, with another half on another plot. The sim
is interlligently and "properly" planned out.

5) The wholesaler then takes the "public space" and the
"infrastructure" land and (and this is going to be the controversial
part, I'm sure) SELLS IT BACK to the lindens for market value. Market
value means, in this situation, that if a wholesaler paid the
equivilent of say $L5/m for the entire Sim, then the lindens will buy
the "public spaces" back and reinburse them the money paid
proportional to how much land was sold (easy way: using $L equivilent
for payment; hard way: reinbursement on the credit card level at LLabs
offices).

6) The wholesaler then sells the plots to various passerby as usual.

Intended results:

1) Better plots. If all land plots have a "universal" direction to
point towards (a road, or a telehub), then better communities and
areas can develop.

2) higher land values. If properly done, people will definitely want
to live in a nicely-planned neighborhood than the equivilent of a SL
ghetto.

3) An ability to "suggest" a way for a Sim to be used. This is as
close to zoning as you're going to get, by the way. If you design a
Sim with a "spokes" design coming from a telehub, for instance, you
may be encouraging more "commercial" interests to pop up rather than
residential. Likewise, if you make long, winding, gentle roads along
rolling hillsides, you are more likely to have prospective residential
buyers. Again, these would just be suggestions; true enforcement of
zoning is impossible (unless strictly enforced by the Lindens, which
it won't be), but with proper planning you can swing development one
way or the other.

4) An easier way for grassroots communities to develop. It's much
easier to have a continuous area have a theme or a general feeling
among it if it's not a bunch of hastily-chopped 512 plots. You add a
sense of place with liberal usage of public space and proper lotting.
An early version of this idea that I'm working on can be seen in South
Grignano; within it, you can see several things. first, the area seems
like one continuous place. Secondly, the buildings are built to
accomodate the current infrastructure (or infrastructure built in).
Thirdly, by having a uniform "feel" about it, people can relate to it
better. Finally, there is enough public "space" within the area to
make it feel special and useful (there is an ampitheatre, forinstance,
and a park, interspersed between shops, houses, waterways, and other
buildings)

5) better feelings of community. Maybe it's just me, but I truly think
that the Nova Albion sims are becoming a better "community" as the
place develops. Perhaps this is true elsewhere as well, like in Taber
or Luskwood. This should be encouraged on a more general scale.

Anways, this is just an idea. Please discuss. I think this would be an
excellent way to foster better growth and more intelligent building
within the grid, while requiring a minimum of change and effort for
all parties involved (the lindens and the wholesalers, really).

----

So, yeah. Sorry about that.

LF
_____________________
----
http://www.lordfly.com/
http://www.twitter.com/lordfly
http://www.plurk.com/lordfly
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
02-07-2006 22:26
She read all of that?

;) :p :)
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
02-08-2006 06:51
From: Lordfly Digeridoo
3) The wholesaler either then takes the Sim and plans it out properly,
or hires someone else to do it (regional planners, for instanceLF


Or hacks it up into little bitty, islands themselves.
_____________________
Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
02-08-2006 07:08
You bastard!
Now get hired and create some nice communities!
_____________________
Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
02-08-2006 07:08
From: Enabran Templar
She read all of that?

;) :p :)


I won't, boil it down for me, Enabran?
_____________________
From: Torley Linden
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication.
Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
02-08-2006 07:20
Yes okay it is all your fault. Good job there LF.

I recently "won the group tools" according to a prolific sythethic world intelligencian. Between us, perhaps we can successfully destroy the world infrastructure, society, and all.

Go LF! Go LF! Go LF!
_____________________
Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
Jarod Godel
Utilitarian
Join date: 6 Nov 2003
Posts: 729
02-08-2006 07:26
Well, since we're coming clean, I guess I should step up to the bar... Second Life is all my fault, and I think this email will explain it all...

From: Jarod's Email to Philip
Hey Phil,

You ever read Snowcrash? You should totally do that Metavoid-- Metavax-- Whatever, that 3D thing.

-Jarod
_____________________
"All designers in SL need to be aware of the fact that there are now quite simple methods of complete texture theft in SL that are impossible to stop..." - Cristiano Midnight

Ad aspera per intelligentem prohibitus.
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
02-08-2006 09:29
Oh yeah? Well one time I saw Philip. And he said hi.


Peace.
Ingrid.
_____________________
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
02-08-2006 09:30
yet strangely LL experimentation started shortly after Robin and Shaun discussed Cyberland's plans to builded themed communities and adding tools to the client to facilitate that this past fall.
_____________________
http://wu-had.blogspot.com/
read my blog

Mecha
Jauani Wu
hero of justice
__________________________________________________
"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate


Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
02-08-2006 09:31
From: Jauani Wu
yet strangely LL experimentation started shortly after Robin and Shaun discussed Cyberland's plans to builded themed communities and adding tools to the client to facilitate that this past fall.

OMG GOM!
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
02-08-2006 09:43
From: Nolan Nash
OMG GOM!


actually, it kind is like getting GOMed, specially if you have invested considerable amount of time in building a system to facilitate that kind of community. but personally, i prefer LL building those tools rather than us. it's much easier on residents.
_____________________
http://wu-had.blogspot.com/
read my blog

Mecha
Jauani Wu
hero of justice
__________________________________________________
"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate


Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
02-08-2006 09:56
I'd love to take credit for all the wonderful suggestions I've offered LL, but due to the recent hubbub over profanity, I don't think I should post those emails here. :cool:

Please fawn over me and my superness anyway. Or, you know, you can sod off.
_____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads :mad:
Jarod Godel
Utilitarian
Join date: 6 Nov 2003
Posts: 729
02-08-2006 10:26
From: Ingrid Ingersoll
Oh yeah? Well one time I saw Philip. And he said hi.
Tell the whole story, though... That was five years after I nodded to you in a crowded restaurant.
_____________________
"All designers in SL need to be aware of the fact that there are now quite simple methods of complete texture theft in SL that are impossible to stop..." - Cristiano Midnight

Ad aspera per intelligentem prohibitus.
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-08-2006 11:01
Hay Phllipp

I think it would be k3wl if we j4cked in with cables in our necks like teh Matrix

Werd


*runs for the hills*
_____________________

Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
02-08-2006 11:10
I actually read all your post and my only caveat is who defines "intelligent" and "well-planned." Standards would have to be established rigid enough to be effective and loose enough so we don't get cookie cutter sims. So far LL has not been that great about establishing or enforcing standards.

Also, what about resale. Does this land come with a covenant where you can't cut it up, "re-zone" it or swallow your neighbors like a hungry amoeba?
_____________________
Surreal

Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004

Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)