How to stop Land Extortion

Hey Everyone,

We have an opportunity to band together and make a difference in our world. Linden Labs has already said Mr. Bush Signs can do as he pleases on his land. And I personally am GLAD they say that. It really does open a huge can of worms for them to eliminate his signs and ban him.

So, it's up to us. Are we mature enough, aware enough? Do we care about our world enough to do something about this bothersome, arrogant, bastard?

This is a lesson in "The Tragedy of the Commons." Many who purchase his land think that what they are doing won't matter, as long as the signs are off their land and out of their sight. But they are only kidding themselves. He's found a ripe target, he'll be back.

I think the best solution for everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in our little online world was posted clearly by Sansarya Caligari. If we ALL ban him and his group of cronies from our land, how much can he do? He won't be moving around much. And STOP BUYING HIS LAND. DEAL with the SIGNS for a little while. STOP FUELING the FIRE PEOPLE.

We can make the change we want to see happen...but we have to band together and use the only tool we have left to do so. Get busy and add them to your ban list. Then wait and see...

Can we do it? I hope so, but I am not holding my breath, I see too much evidence of selfishness, and not enough looking at the big picture. Prove me wrong fellow Second Lifers!

One more thing: Don't sell parcels of land to just anyone...set it for sale, to yourself. Then put a sign on it telling the buyer to contact you for purchase. Check out the buyer's affiliations before you sell the land. No guarantees it won't end up in Mr. Bush sign's hands, but it doesn't make it easy for him either.

Sorry to be negative here, but any plans that requires EVERYONE to do anything is doomed to fail.

I like the idea, Lizbeth.... I just spent a few mins banning everyone in that group

Thank you for your demonstration of "The Tragedy of the Commons"

Now this is thinking! This is the best form of resistance... said person's life could become very problematic... without anyone doing anything other than execise their 'rights'.
I also agree while this menace exists, we should be careful about our land sales... I'm currently paying extra tier for two 128m lots I don't really need... but I am happy to wear the cost... because the alternative is even more signs...
Hmmm adding names to ban list now!

Unfortunately, there is a fairly low altitude limit for land ban effectiveness.

We won't stop anyone from flying around, and likely anyone doing this is quite aware that they aren't welcome in most places already.

I doubt they are doing much friendly socialising, and if they are, full access to the world is only one alt away.



What enables such people to suspend their ethics like this is often a history of being cheated themselves in the past, and usually, an incredible lack of self esteem.

Striking back in a social manner generally does little more than reinforce this - and open up possibilities that are even worse.

What next, an alt with a ponzi scheme, or RL blackmail via recording chat logs? Likely the perpetrator is reading this, nodding and thinking - yes, yes!

That's the direction this will take us, though I must admit, in spirit I 100% agree with your group's motive.


Were it up to me (which it is not) - I would do this:

1. Ask nicely for all such land extortion to stop, and if it did, drop the matter forever, welcoming the person back to society. With an open heart and a Guinness waiting at the bar.

2. If it doesn't stop, sieze all assets and alts, ban the perpetrator, and put the avatar in a cage swinging from the Tower Bridge. With a plaque, explaining it all.


Something like (2) will happen eventually anyway, when the Company finally tires of the economic disincentive from it.

I, for one, hope with all my heart that LL will never do that. It opens up that ugly can of worms I metioned in my first post.

And I don't have a bleeding heart for this person, pity parties and justification for bad behavior are another sad fact of the Tragedy.

If you look at the group, you will see, he's alted out. (I admit, I am guessing, but I'm betting I'm right at this point in his game.)

I believe LL is leaving it up to us to do what we can, what we will, within our rights. They are doing what they can, the rest is up to us.

What can it hurt to try my idea Desmond? It worked for Sansarya Caligari, Mulch Ennui and the folks in their sim....

It doesn't need to be everyone, but it needs to be enough such that the one who abuses the commons feels sufficient social pressure that he doesn't get the payoff he desires.

In a very strong sense, Second Life is a grand experiment in social dynamics. If Linden Labs were to attempt to police this and similar examples, the opportunity for social development would be lost.

What makes this most interesting is that in RL we are increasingly challenged with the same type of scenario. For example, the increase in terrorism because accelerating technology is increasing the opportunities for an individual or small group to significantly disrupt the larger organization. Advances in biotechnology and nanotechnology are creating ever more dire opportunities for those who wish to promote their individual values out of proportion with the values of those with whom they share the commons.

Like the so-called paradox of the iterated Prisoner's Dilemma, what appears rational within the smaller context of the individual, is clearly and obviously irrational within the larger context of the group, but humans are not inherently rational, and we don't generally grasp the bigger picture when trying to deal with moral issues.

The solution to this problem is ultimately one of economics (cost vs benefit over the long run), guided by awareness that is broad enough to see beyond short-term individual actions and consequences to the longer term principles that promote cooperation via competition and synergetic growth.

At some point, the metaverse should be rich enough and sufficiently structured that the potential loss of reputation (and associated community benefits) would be enough to deter such individual abuse. While alts complicate the issue, they are also handled with an effective (future) reputation system.

Edit: [Realizing I get a bit abstract.] Bottom line: Banning and shunning, perhaps shaming, are presently the most effective countermeasures we have against this type of abuse, but it requires that sufficient people understand this and don't "play" with him (and his unknown alts?) until he shows good citizenship.

- Jef

Hello once again all.

I would first of all like to point out that LL has given me the answer I asked for,even though as was pointed out to me AFTER I had asked, they had already made thier position known. A BIG thank you to Robin for humoring me and answering that annoying question yet again. Sometimes repetition helps.

And the original answer said:

So, now that we have heard from the big L's, let's see if it actually IS extortion:
(keep in mind these are RL definitions so the phrase "criminal offense" doesn't technically apply here as I am aware of it)

Yes, he is supposedly obtaining money from this (I say supposedly because i've not heard how much he has managed to make off of this.). However, he is not threatening or inflicting harm to anything. If someone can provide HARD PROOF that his signs have cost them business I would be very interested to see it and would strongly urge them to show this to the Lindens. So, since it's not extortion, let's take a look at price gouging:

Could it be? Likely. But price gouging is not against the ToS that I have seen, and as noted in the last line of the quote, he has the right to charge whatever he wants for the land. Yes, its unfair but he isn't FORCING anyone to buy his land! Unethical is NOT illegal in all cases. I believe that leaves us with one last definition and that is of Profiteering:

So there we have it. If anything, the guy is profiteering, which again is not against ToS. This is not about his free speech, which I think we can all agree he has a right to, no matter how controversial the message. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop calling this extortion!!! Until someone can show proof that he is harming someone's business, this is not what it is. Technically he could come back on some of these people and accuse them of libel, but that's a mess that we really don't want to get into. It's bad enough that our First Lives are filled with litigation, let's not bring the 'suing wars' to SL as well.

I believe the next step would be to determine what, if anything, can be done by the community as a whole to see that our Second Lives aren't further interrupted by this. I refer you to a post written earlier to start with:


This is probably the best plan that I have seen to date, and one that many have alluded to before. Cut off his lifeline by NOT buying his land. In the end, it won't even matter if he DOES continue to buy land because then he'll be stuck paying tier on <insert massive number here> sqm of land that he can't get rid of short of taking the signs down, lowering the price and egaging in normal real estate like the rest of us do.

The best part about this whole plan?

IT REQUIRES NO ACTION ON ANYONE'S PART.

Sit on your bum along with me and watch his tier payment skyrocket. If nothing else, we will be able to chuckle about it down the road. Then we can go to him and offer to buy his land at fair market value.....FMV being $0L!

Also, a quick question: Has anyone managed to track this guy's transactions? I personally would like to know some statistics:
How much land he owns
What he bought it for
How long he has had it for (ie: his turnover time)
What he is selling for (his markup)
Granted, it would take a lot of 'footwork' to gather this and whoever did it would have to make sure that they were NOT harassing or stalking.

Likely, there's not a lot of hurt to try it - I would imagine it might allow him to justify in his mind greater nastiness, but... likely that's already set in.

Any progress is good progress, and I congratulate you on that - though I doubt he's 'alted out' by any means.

There is one method that would almost assuredly work in getting him banned, though I haven't the nerve to do it myself - all it would take are 3 or 4 determined 'alts' to copycat his actions all over the grid.

Another unspoken concern is that this is the work of a land baron. And no, I'm not pointing fingers, I have no idea who, or if.

Imagine timing the removal of the signs (and thus, the raising of land values) for great profit. Gaming the Lindex would have nothing on this.

If that is too shocking of a possibility, you have yet to understand the criminal mind.





Everything you say makes a lot of sense - but I would add he's pretty clearly harming some people's businesses (though yes, it may be difficult to prove that he ruined this sale or that).

So - it may be 'very hard to prove' extortion, but extortion nonetheless - note that great pains to make a diversionary issue were taken. But there still is an extortionary price for which one can buy the land, and that's not going away.

Note that he's also helping some forms of business - island sim renters, especially. I'll be one myself shortly - the smart move would be to remain quiet, and let him drive business to me. But that is not ethical in my mind.

One way to stop it...

Leave SL and don't come back.

I'll demonstrate for you.



By the way, next time theres a thread patting LL's collective back for ______ number of accounts, maybe you should consider that basic accounts can't technically close their account and be subtracted from that number. It only grows.

I agree entirely with Desmond ^ .

coco

count me in i own a sim and a half on the main land

this is a wonderfull sugestion

A quote from terms of service....section 5.1 upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;

Excuse me Mr Linden but isnt mr bush guys board "spam" and isnt he soliciting us to impeech bush? According to the TOS he is breaking the rules why dont you do something????????

according to the dictionary....

spam [ spam ]


noun (plural spams)

Definitions:
an unsolicited, often commercial, message transmitted through the Internet to a large number of recipients

on behalf of all the people who have posted complaints i respectivly demand some action be taken!!!!!
This message will be repeated in other parts of this forum if they remove it cause i am spamming they better remove his signs to

I'm with you Lizbeth

Have already had that moron on my ban- and mute lists since I saw the first sign. Not banned in my little shop yet, as I have seen banning as something negative for a shop. But I will make an exception for him

Now if I could have my security system tp him - and only him - home each time he fly by.... *chuckles*


Lis

The Key I think is two part

1. Stop giving the person attention. Quietly go about your second lives ignoring his/her existence. Banning and talking about it constantly simply fuels the fires.

2. Do not for any reason buy land from this person. Eventually he/she will get tired of paying an obscene tier level for something that is no longer paying off either finacially or emotionally (see #1).

As long as people are raising a ruckus and paying the demanded amout for the land there is absolutely no incentive to change behavior.

Thanks for joining us Crucial, Lis, and Hol thanks for making my long post much clearer. Those are the keys

and PLEASE, in mind of step ONE...NO WHINING on this thread about the dude, his cronies OR the signs. From here on, let's not mention it, just join me in ignoring and banning and NOT BUYING the land.

And when you set it for sale, set it to sell to YOU with a notecard for interested buyers to contact you. That way you can screen for non-affiliation. It's additional work, but it's worth the hassle in the long run.

Keep the thread going so that the word gets out. Or, do like I did, copy a post from here and hand it out in world as a notecard.