Why Events Restricts Were Added

I'm putting this in "economy" because restrictions on event hosting have really impacted the economy.

Yesterday, in the meeting with Robin about events, one person repeatedly asked what the problem with events was, such as to necessitate the recent changes (restrictions). And while we never got a full, direct answer to that question, Robin did explain one motivation for restricting the scheduling of events to land that you or your group owns.

Apparently what had happened was that some event organizers were spamming the events list with repeated events 24/7, only slightly moving the coordinates of the venue, like this: Ross, 128, 128; Ross, 120, 128; Ross 100, 128" etc.

Now, maybe they didn't want to talk about that so as not to give new spammers any ideas. Of course, I have to wonder how lame you have to be to schedule the same thing just a few meters away and call it a new event, but Tringo maybe is motivated to do that --they pay huge prices up front to buy those Tringo boards, and they wish to recoup their investment.

What I'm baffled about is why restrictions of number of times (first 3, then relenting to have 5) became the solution for too many venues in the same area of a sim.

I wonder this especially when I go to post an event, and I see that many of my land parcels have "0,0" showing as their coordinates. It seems only one parcel, arbitrarily selected perhaps in my sim, shows an actual coordinate that someone could click on to vector in on my event. That may have been introduced as a lock on hosts to prevent spamming with multiple venues -- but then if they have such a lock, why don't they just leave it at that, and not restrict the number of times per day?

I found this annoying the other day when trying to schedule the Town Hall repeater because I couldn't select or type in the actual coordinates of the ampitheater seating on my property where I had the radio repeater set out. Instead, I had to arbitrarily accept the coordinates the game generated on the other side of the island.

And I wonder why technical solutions like these restrictions are put in to solve what is a people problem or social problem -- if the Lindens saw the same few hosts spamming the list with venues, why didn't they just go in and say, hey, that's not the idea, you can't do that! And shut down their excess events. After all, they're Lindens. Can't they do that sensibly under their "any reason or no reason" clause? They can simply say: hey, you can't create fake new events by moving the same event a few feet, geez, that's lame.

On the other hand, if somebody has the stamina to run Tringo 24/7 moving it a few inches every hour, shouldn't their diligence be rewarded by access to the events list?

What's really bothering the Lindens -- and some older players and a few newer ones with cultural sensitivieis -- is mass culture. They hate the Tringo, the sexay avatars, the contests in scanty clothing, etc. They'd like to see everyone sitting around with their copies of the New York Times...and doing the crossword puzzle in PEN, mind you...AND doing the Harper's acrostic in PEN, too!!!!

But...there is so little capacity for income generation in this game, that we really should be permitting mass culture in as mass an appearance it wants to make. Until better filters are available, it should fill the events list.

Those who have high-end specialized events use their group membership spam lists anyway and can avoid the events board completely. They can also post here on the forums in the classifieds and sometimes get more attention.

I'm for removing any and all restrictions on events, just because events are the way people can make income and get paid at least a few dollars in dwell. In order to encourage business sponsorship of events, I'm for removing the language in the event agreement now that says:



If interpreted strictly, it means that any event held at a mall or a public commons near stores could be viewed as encouraging "shopping". If land is available for sale or for rent nearby to where an event is held, it could be construed as a "violation". It's hard to know if even a notecard-giver, or a sign that says "Now Renting" is ok to have in the background somewhere when an event is held.

I imagine like most things in SL, these things await their interpretation when someone gunning for you files an AR on you over these issues, trying to trip you up on a technicality.

I think that with posrates costing what they do -- $75 to do the trifecta -- we shouldn't worry so much about organized posrating, and that posrates and negrates for a job well done or poorly done, whether on organizing the event or creating a product, etc. -- should be in the normal course of things, just like on ebay.

Interesting thoughts, Prokofy. These are definately things for people to think about and they bring up some valid points.

Then there's this paragraph:

Which I feel is utter rubbish and most likely just an ill informed opinion. Yes, people may have been Tringo'd out - but using that as a basis for the overhaul of a specific program? Doubtful. We've seen the Tringo'd out effect before, with Bingo, and after a while, the sheer # of Bingo events was reduced as the fever died off.

I can't imagine them changing a function from a knee-jerk reaction, especially one that would impact such large numbers of residents.

Juro, but they did!

You should have sat in this meeting, and heard a sizeable minority sound off about hating Tringo. Read these forums, and see the people sounding off about too much Tringo.

They don't seem to grasp the idea that to make bad or dull content go away, the answer is not to ban, or restrict, but to create good content and have it prevail to push out bad.

I'm not about to debate that there is a vocal minority who dislike all the Tringo games, but I just can't see LL using the voice of that minority as the impetus for the change in events funding. I can see LL making a decision on the voice of a minority where the change is progressive, but not one that is restrictive or regressive.

Question:

How many poorly-attended tringo events will one host hold before he/she/it stops holding such events?


* In all instances of "tringo" substitute sexay, club, contest, free slots and escorts for additional irritation.

~Lefty Belvedere

Yet that's what they did, Juro. Among the reasons that motivated them for these restrictions were the negative factor of people spamming the list with venues only a few meters apart in coordinates, and TOO MUCH TRINGO. Everyone knows what they mean by TOO MUCH TRINGO.

Why would you have trouble believing this about their motivations? Seems crystal-clear to me.

Spamming the events board should've been dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Whatever. There are going to be those that want to see it as a clamp-down because they:

I don't see this as the case. I mean, if that many people "hated" Tringo, why were they so popular? Sure people might roll thier eyes at it as most do to things that are overexposed, like J-Lo. It gets annoying - but not so much as to warrant a drastic shift in policy.

Just my thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

Juro, do you live in the world? Do you read the forums?

The definite elite received wisdom of SL is that there is "too much Tringo" and it is an eyesore on the events list. Quite a number of opinion leaders have sounded off very vocally here on the forums, and in the game at meetings with Lindens.

Of course not everbody "hates Tringo" because it has so many camp followers.

But you *are* aware of the received wisdom, aren't you? That it is mass culture, and that has no place on the events boards, which were designed for higher pursuits.

We've even had threads here with various papers by Philip cited in which his point was made that the original intent of dwell was to have bad content die away as no one would visit it.

I think even Philip didn't reckon on the idea that dwell stampedes would take place to Tringo, a decidedly low-brown pursuit, and that in a just and democratic and free society, you cannot rely on "dwell feet" to walk to the "best" or even "good" content.

Content is surely in the eye of the beholder!

How many times are you going to ask me that stupid question, I mean really, it gets old.


I'm sorry, I must have missed that bit of wisdom. I was never bothered by all the Tringo listings - but maybe the event listing engine should include some filtering abilities in it, so that Tringo can go on but those who don't want to see 150 Tringo listings can filter them out.

The plots of land that show 0,0 for events have no landing point set. Just go where you want the landing point to be and use options in about land to set a new landing point.

Oh, ok, thanks, Loki, I didn't know that, that's helpful.

As I was at the meeting of the Events Workgroup, I can vouch for Prokofy and what transpired. I would also like to state that Robin Linden did admit that the changes to the events calendar that precipitated the creation fothe Events Workgroup were a mistake and were made because of the voice of a vocal few. "The squeeky wheel always gets the grease" syndrome came to mind.

I thought it was very telling that a Linden, especially as one as revered as Robin, would admit that the Lindens made a mistake. A mistake which "fixed" a problem that wasn't even there.

There is an elitist, anti-commerce minority in SL. Should they retain their voice, most definetly. Should they be allowed to dictate the policies of SL over the masses, because those masses make their sensitive noses curl? No.

Also, Prokofy did post this in the correct place, becuase events do propel the economy, just as much as Linden subsidies/welfare/handouts, if not more.

I can also attest that proposals to appease the anti-commerce minority were rebuffed, no matter how generous those proposals were. There was even a proposal to charge commercial properties up to L$50 per event to placed into a trust fund that would then be given out in place of Linden subsidies for eductional and non-commercial events. Cries of no could be heard, but it while commercial property owners were willing to give up something, they were asking the anti-commerce group to give up something as well. God forbid that ever happens.

The anti-commerce whiners who want "diversified" events, but so as long as they fit in their pigeon hole of an idea of what truly constitutes event need to start actually working with us in trying to fix a problem they created, or else all of SL will become irrelevant.

I am all for events. personally, I wish they had left the bonuses alone, however, when people don't charge admission to events, and in fact pay attendees, how does that drive the economy?

This reminds me of when I returned to TSO for a stint last year. Hosts were paying others large sums to come to their events. I made 70K in a weekend. I got so bored of it I let my account lapse again. It is a ruined, backwards economy when people do not have to pay to attend.

Hey, is it still possible to join the Events group?

Have you ever purchased a car because of "dealer incentives" or cash back, rebates or special financing? Have you have ever gone to Target, Wal-Mart or K-Mart the day after Thanksgiving because of all of those super deals? Have you ever clipped and used a coupon for something, even pizza?

If you have, then you have received an incentive from from the manufacturer/retailer to purchase or go to a location. Why should it be any different than in SL? I offer incentives for people to visit Night Mountain. Those incentives are an investment on my part on behalf of my retailers and for the future viability of Night Mountain. As a fairly new complex (about a month old), Night Mountain needs people to visit and say "I want to return". The most effective and even economical way of doing this is through incentives.

I am only applying a real world strategy in SL, why begrudge me that?

Hold on now, I am not begrudging you anything.

Your example of buyer incentives doesn't ring true for me as in those RL cases, because there is still a person paying the dealer. Paying the dealer more than the dealer is "paying" them.

As for incentives to launch a new business, that's great, but they cannot continue indefinately, not for any viable business model. For instance, a new cineplex just opened a mile from my home a few months back, and they gave out some free and some discounted tickets for a couple of weeks. This was a great idea because, as you stated, it developed some producer/consumer relationships. However, that phase is through now and they charge normal prices.

Car dealership incentives are a whole different ball game. Their product prices are so inflated to begin with, that they can easily knock off a couple of grand and still make money.

Again, I am not begrudging you anything, I am questioning the impact of endless trickles of cash going from the host to the attendees with no cash flow in the opposite direction - other than newly minted money (inflation maker) going to the host in the form of dwell payments.

For one, you are assuming those who receive the incentives don't spend them, that they just stash them away. In SL, that is highly improbable. The impulse items alone can drive you to virtual bankruptcy!

Besides, I have vendors who will most likely receive the money I paid out in incentives through sales. They in turn will most likely renew their rents. Its an economic circle of life.

I tend to save what I make and cash out to USD. To each his own. I know many others who do as well, so it's not highly improbable.

I am not assuming that they don't spend them, that is beside the point, I am stating that your incentive analogy from RL does not mesh with SL free events, in which the consumer is charged nothing, and in fact paid.

Why are you getting wound up about this? I am trying to have a rational, non-heated exchange of ideas with you.

im robin linden

Does anyone have a transcript of this?

StoneSelf, you ARE NOT Robin Linden - I just don't believe it.

I think we should ask ourselves why tringo is so popular. I play a game once a week possibly and enjoy it but for a lot of people, its a great way to make more money, especially if they don't have a premium account. I think that accounts to a huge extent for the proliferation of tringo events.

Regardless of some who look down their nose at it, tringo will continue to do well, until the next big thing. In addition, apart from an initial amount put in the pot by the host, it is those attending who pay money to play.

Alexa

/me is not responsible for what you believe