Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Why are there no reasonable limits set on scripts?

Loniki Loudon
Homes By Loniki
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 176
04-19-2006 09:33
Why is it that I can only teleport 300M or fly up to 200M but someone's push security system can knock me three sims?

Why is it that I can't link 4 items 40m apart but a malicious script can spawn 100s of items that will take down a sim?

Why is it that a new player can walk into a store and buy a push weapon but then get suspended when they go out and use it?

Why are there limits on the useful aspects of scripts and no limits on the damaging aspects of scripts?

Why does "push" for instance ever need to be more then 10-20M? LL puts limits on teleporter distance, why don't they put the limits on the stuff people can be suspended for? Why not put limits on the stuff that can take down a sim or cause extreme lag?

I can go out and buy a nuclear device or a hand of god item and get suspended for using them as these devices have no limits and can cause a lot of damage. Why is that? Sure, a suspension may stop a person who wants to be here from using them but what about the dips out there that don't want to be here? What about the dips who want to cause destruction or grief?

We need reasonable limits on scripts. We can't count on the law biding people to prevent chaos because these aren't the people who want to cause chaos. We need script limits to protect the law biding people.

I would propose a committee to look at various aspects of scripting and set reasonable limits to aspects that can be deemed damaging if malicious intent were involved.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-19-2006 12:01
From: Loniki Loudon
Why is it that I can only teleport 300M
You can't teleport from a script at all... the "sit teleport" uses an unintended side effect of llSitTarget();, and the limit is actually closer to 512 meters.
From: someone
or fly up to 200M
You can fly as high as you want the same way you can teleport 300 meters... through a script.
From: someone
but someone's push security system can knock me three sims?
Because programmers are always thinking of new ways to take advantage of the tools they're given.
From: someone
Why is it that I can't link 4 items 40m apart
Because Linden Labs is using a really old physics model and applying stupid limits to try and keep the flaws from showing up.
From: someone
but a malicious script can spawn 100s of items that will take down a sim?
Because building a scripting system that prevents denial of service attacks without fundamentally compromising the ability to do useful stuff is an amazingly hard problem. If LL prevented self-rep, people would come up with ways to produce the same effect by proxies. In fact when they nerfed self-rep it took me a few hours to come up with a working example of a workaround.
From: someone
Why is it that a new player can walk into a store and buy a push weapon but then get suspended when they go out and use it?
Same reason a new player can walk into SL and harass people without using push weapons and get suspended.
From: someone
Why are there limits on the useful aspects of scripts and no limits on the damaging aspects of scripts?
Because any limit on the damaging aspects of scripts is a bigger limitation on the useful applications of scripts, because it's easier to damage than build.
From: someone
LL puts limits on teleporter distance
No they don't. In fact, LL has provided no access to teleportation from scripts at all... all the "teleporter scripts" are using facilities that were not originally designed for teleportation.
From: someone
Why not put limits on the stuff that can take down a sim or cause extreme lag?
They do. And when they do they break working non-griefer tools and the griefers come up with workarounds anyway.
From: someone
I would propose a committee to look at various aspects of scripting and set reasonable limits to aspects that can be deemed damaging if malicious intent were involved.
I'll bet that no matter what limits you come up with, I could design a griefer script using what's left, unless you limit the scripting to the point where it's useless.

I do computer security and real time control systems for a living. In the real world. I've designed and implemented "safe" languages where the consequences of people breaking the limits on the scripts could involve people getting maimed and killed. Real people, not avatars. The resulting languages make LSL look insanely powerful... one of them had no loop constructs at all. None. The only way to run a loop was to schedule a repeating event, because I couldn't find a way to make loops safe without making the language too hard to use in other ways.

LSL is a compromise between functionality and safety, and while it could be improved (lord knows they need to get some real compiler people working on the syntax!) I don't think that making it "safe" will make anyone happy.
Riley Jarrico
The Original HOT CHICK
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 14
04-19-2006 12:28
The biggest thing I would like to see in SL is a limit on push scripts there is no reason to have somone pushed across several sims.
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
04-19-2006 12:35
There *is* a limit on push scripts. You just use more than one if you want to get round that.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-19-2006 13:39
From: Ordinal Malaprop
There *is* a limit on push scripts. You just use more than one if you want to get round that.
Which is a perfect example of what I meant by I'll bet that no matter what limits you come up with, I could design a griefer script using what's left, unless you limit the scripting to the point where it's useless. :)
Suru Xia
Registered User
Join date: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 20
04-21-2006 08:11
IS this REALLY a suggestion, or just a cleverly disguised rant. . .